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Author Topic: 'Brother' in scripture  (Read 9073 times)

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Kat

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'Brother' in scripture
« on: May 21, 2007, 01:25:07 PM »

There has been some discussion in another thread concerning the word 'brother' in scripture.
I started with the outline from ISBE, and added verses to it, to show the many uses of the term ‘brother’ in scripture. 
This does not mention every single time the word is used of course (the KJV had 354 in OT and NT), but does give a good sense of the different uses of it.

Strong's (OT) brother H251
אח   'âch   awkh
A primitive word; a brother (used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance (like H1)): - another, brother (-ly), kindred, like, other. Compare also the proper names beginning with “Ah-” or “Ahi-”.

Strong's (NT) brother G80
ἀδελφός  adelphos  ad-el-fos'
From G1 (as a connective particle) and δελφύς delphus (the womb); a brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like [H1]): - brother.

Brother
bruth´ẽr (אח, 'āḥ; ἀδελφός, adelphós = kin by birth, from the same parents or parent):
Chiefly employed in the natural sense,  (Matt 1:2; Luke 3:1; Luke 3:19); as of Cain and Abel (Gen 4:08); of Joseph and his brethren (Gen 42:3); of Peter and Andrew, of James and John (Matt. 10:2).

Used extensively in both OT and NT of other relations and relationships:
(1) Abram's nephew, Lot, is termed “brother” (Gen 13:08).

(2) Moses' fellow-countrymen are “brethren” (Exo 2:11; Acts 3:22; compare Heb 7:5).

(3) a member of the same tribe (2Sam 19:12).

(4) a brother/man, any member of the human family (Heb 2:17; Heb 08:11; 1John 2:9; 1John 4:20).

(5) of moral likeness or kinship (Pro 18:9).

Used to imply those of the same faith and beliefs:
(6) used of common discipleship and followers (Matt 23:08; Matt 25:40; Acts 1:14; Acts 11:29; Heb 2:11,12).

(7) one of the same faith (Mat  7: 3-5; Mat 12:50; Acts  9:17; Acts 11:29; Acts  21:20;  Rom 16:23; 1Cor 5:11; 1Cor 7:12; 2Cor 2:13; 1Peter 1:22); Paul called Timothy his spiritual son and associate (2Cor 1:1) and Sosthenes “brother” (1Cor 1:1);

(08) a term adopted by the early disciples to express their fraternal love for each other in Christ, and universally adopted as the language of love and brotherhood in His kingdom in all subsequent time (2Pe 3:15; Col 4:7, Col 4:9, Col 4:15).

From what I can see the word is used in a spiritual sense, to mean brothers in Christ in the above numbers 6,7 and 08. 
Any discussion on this is welcome  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 03:09:25 PM by Kat »
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mari_et_pere

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2007, 01:35:46 PM »

Okay so if I were to call .........Darren for example, brother, I would be correct because we share the same basic beliefs.
But I could also call him brother because we're of the same country.
I could also call him brother because we're both of the human race.
So basically everyone is my brother. That's cool with me. I've been known to call everyone brother from time to time anyway.  :)
Kat, it's awesome that you take the time to look stuff up and do research for people. Of course it adds to your own personal knowledge also, but it helps others out to. You're a good brother.   ;D :D :P

Matt
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YellowStone

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2007, 03:08:37 PM »

Hey Matt, I mean Bro....  :)

Great post sister Kathy!  I have a confession to make. During my past life as a church attendee, all these people greeting each other as brother or sister, used to make my skin crawl.

However, now that God has brought me to y'all, I have no problem with the usage, and as many of you can see. I use the terms often.

Although Kat, I would say I use it as reference to the likeness of faith and beliefs and I will not use it on people whom I have not established a repoire ?? with.

Great post :)

Love to you both from your brother in Christ,

Darren

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Kat

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2007, 03:58:21 PM »


Hi Matt,

Though the word brother can be apply to everybody in one way are another.  When the apostles use the word 'brother' it invariably means a fellow believer.  In just a few verse 'brother' is referring to as humanity.
So I think that it is significant that when when the scripture say 'brother'(in the NT), it is applied to the believers and not the world.
Do we consider the church our 'brothers'?  I don't think so.  We can see where Paul said to not associate with someone even if they are among the believers, and shows by actions not to be of like mind.  The church is certainly not of like mind.

1Co 5:9  I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
v. 10  I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
v. 11  But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.

Darren, I too only use the term brother and sister with someone whom I feel a spiritual connection.  And I do find that through this forum  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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rocky

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2007, 04:30:38 PM »

So where do you draw the line between a believer in the resurrection of Christ who is in the "church" but is actually a child of satan,

and a carnal Christian who is a believer in the resurrection and is a "brother in Christ"? 

As i showed on the other thread, there were contentions, strife, followers of Paul, Apollos, etc, in I Corinthians 1-3 who were carnal Christians (not like minded) that Paul addressed as "brothers".

And why didn't Paul run from these I Corinthian people, avoid them, leave them be, per his advice;

but rather pursued them in love, encouraging them?? 

What's the cut off point for a "fake" believer and a "real believer"? 

For me, it's not a belief in free will, a belief in hell, a belief in the "10 second" sinners prayer etc (as these are carnal Christian beliefs), but a denial of Jesus come in the flesh, (meaning Christ was not the messiah, and his resurrection is bull; it's the relying on self works rather than faith).  It's a denial of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. 

I ask this sincerely, as I am troubled by the blanket "everyone in the church" is a wolf, poison, babylon, and not our brother. 

I know many people who are broken, beat down, and the law has tutored them to Christ, and trust in Christ for LIFE, yet have not had there eyes opened as far as ours.  Are they no longer my brother?? 

 





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YellowStone

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2007, 04:41:06 PM »

Rocky,

You have asked a very soulful question:

I ask this sincerely, as I am troubled by the blanket "everyone in the church" is a wolf, poison, babylon, and not our brother.


To blanket is to act in ignorance, for who is anyone to read the mind of God. :)

Let me ask a question to any who would defend this "blanket" statement.

Would any here not reach out with love and hope to any such people if they came here with a humble heart and an attentive ear? Of course not. :)

It is not the church that is the problem, it is the carnal desires of man himself, who wants nothing more than to write and guarantee his own salvaion. The church is but a vehicle, and has been for a very long time.

It matters not where they come from; rather, it is where they are now and where they want to be.

Great question and thanks for posting it. :)

Love to you my brother,
Darren
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Joey Porter

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 04:51:10 PM »


Hi Matt,

Though the word brother can be apply to everybody in one way are another.  When the apostles use the word 'brother' it invariably means a fellow believer.  In just a few verse 'brother' is referring to as humanity.
So I think that it is significant that when when the scripture say 'brother'(in the NT), it is applied to the believers and not the world.
Do we consider the church our 'brothers'?  I don't think so.  We can see where Paul said to not associate with someone even if they are among the believers, and shows by actions not to be of like mind.  The church is certainly not of like mind.

1Co 5:9  I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
v. 10  I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
v. 11  But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.

Darren, I too only use the term brother and sister with someone whom I feel a spiritual connection.  And I do find that through this forum  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat




Actually, I would have to say the church, or those in Babylon, are our brothers.  Not because we are in agreement with them, but just because they are in the house of God.  

Remember, in the house of God there are vessels for honor and vessels for destruction.  So even the carnal or "called" brothers, the vessels of destruction (assuming we consider ourselves vessels of honor) are still our brothers.  

Think back to the story of Joseph.  Joseph's brothers represent those who will "cast the 'chosen' out of the synagogues."  They represent the "called."  But Joseph, representing the chosen, was kind to them and forgave them and always considered them his brothers.  That is the attitude that we are to have.  And I believe in the future age, they will fall down at our feet as we are in a position of authority over them, just as in the story of Joseph.

But Joseph understood God's sovereignty and the fact that the evil they carried out against him was all a part of God's plan for a greater purpose.

That's why I believe we would consider the church and all those in its denominations to be our ''brothers.''  

I also want to agree with what was mentioned in an earlier post. I don't think we want to paint with too broad of a brush when we use the term "church."  It's more of an individual thing, depending on each person's heart.  I'm sure there are many humble honest seekers who are still in the "church" who have not been spiritually called out yet.  
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 05:17:31 PM »

From : "THE KISS OF DEATH" by Ray Smith

Judas was a wolf in sheep's clothing. The apostles saw a sheep—Jesus saw a wolf.

Here is what I think : A neighbour is someone who does a good turn for a person. Like a Moslem or a Samaratin picking up someone in the ditch and expecting no payback. There is no connection in spiritual terms. This Good Samaratin Agape love is how we are expected to treat others as we would have them treat us in "good" terms.

Who is my brother and who is my sister has a far deeper significance in the kindred spiritual sense. If an association reveals through dialogue there is common beliefs and mutual acceptance of truths then one can say you have discovered a brother or sister. This would be true in any religious or cultural sense. In Africa many communities in tribal traditionalism are bound together as family although there is no connection biologically.

In Christ, a brother or sister has to be of mutual belief and mutual acceptance of the truth. I see no sisters or brothers who are in Babylon. There are no ties to any systems of heresy and false teachings in Christ.  

As I meet up with each others differences I have come to realise there are no brothers and sisters amongst our SELVES. There are far too many imperfections in the vessels. I recognise brotherhood and sisterhood only where there is Christ made visible in the vessel of honour that is accepting and following in Christs ways, mind and spirit.

For me there is only ONE Brother or Sister and THAT IS CHRIST in whomever is revealing HIM. My connection is to HIM. Paul showed in his writings that this was the intention and plan and purpose of Christ that we would eventually come to recognise HIM and that we might develop until we ALL attain oneness in the full and accurate knowledge of the SON OF GOD. Eph 4:13

As Ray says in his Love transcript : We can love our neighbor, with a agape love, we don't need to fellowship, hobnob with them or become part of what they are, in any way, shape or form.  When God says, love your enemies.  If it said you would have to phileo your enemies, then I would just have to take my 9 pages of notes here, tear them up, throw them away.  Close the Bible and say, I have not a clue as to what this thing about love is, not a clue.

I think that is a very good way of saying that no one needs to feign affection! To feign affection is the wolf in sheep's cothing and double mindedness is not where the Word of God is leading. On the contrary, Woe to them that lead down feigned affections doubleminded dark alleys. ;D with expectations of entitlement that they should be treated with affection or kissed up too!

Sadrach Meshach and Abendigo did not bow and neither did Christ. That is what got Shadrach Meshach and Abendigo thrown into the furnace and lead Jesus to His death. I have to follow suit and I think letting go of the need for approval, agreement or being right is part of the process in active Agape love for Gods creation and Phileo love for His Son. The papers on LOVE and THE KISS OF DEATH by Ray, inspires comfort and confidence in this regard.
For me anyway! :D

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 05:19:26 PM by Arcturus »
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Kat

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 05:30:07 PM »

Hi rocky,

I think I understand your question;

Quote
and a carnal Christian who is a believer in the resurrection and is a "brother in Christ"?  

I will admit that what you call someone who is like minded can be different for different people.  But what I am saying is those who are, now in the age, Christ' brother are those who have Christ in them.

There certainly are those new to the understanding of the truth that need time to grow in knowledge, they are babes, but no longer decieved, as those in mystery Babylon.

The blanket statement about the church in general, as not being brothers/elect/ saints, I believe is true.  Now I will admit that there are indiviuals believers in the process of coming out of the church or who will be brought out, but as a whole I think they are lost in this age.

Rev 17:4  The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality.
v. 5  And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations."
v. 6  And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly.
v. 13  These are of one mind and hand over their power and authority to the beast.
v. 14  They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful."

Here is a segment of Ray's no. 10 article 'The Synagogue of Saran.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html --------------------------------
WHERE IS THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN?

The synagogue of Satan is located in the churches—in The Church!

"…you have tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and have found them liars" (Rev. 2:2).

Where did the Ephesians try those false, lying, apostles? In some pagan temple or church down the street, or across town, or in some foreign land? Or maybe in the pagan religion of the Roman occupation? No, in the Church. Jesus Christ says:

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write… thou have tried them which say they are apostles [in the church of Ephesus], and are not" (Rev. 2:1a & 2b).

Where did Jesus know these lying apostles? Why, in the Church, of course. Of what consequence would "lying apostles" of some pagan religion be to the churches of God in Asia?

And where did Jesus say the synagogue of Satan is located? Same place—in the Church:

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write… I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews [in the Smyrna church], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan… And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write… I will make them of the synagogue of Satan [in the Philadelphia church], and are not but do lie…" (Rev. 2:8 & 9; 3:7 & 9).
------------------------------------------------------

Here is segments of Ray's no. 7 article 'THE SEVEN SYMBOLIC CHURCHES OF REVELATION.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html ---------------------
COUNTING THE COST

Would you have taken up Christ’s invitation to become an apostle with Him? Oh really? And just what idol of your heart are you willing to give up? You say, "I am not rich, or I would give it up to be an apostle of Jesus Christ." Well then, I guess we can eliminate "wealth" as one of the idols of your heart. But what is still left in your heart that you idolize? I believe that I have the mind of Christ when I say that there are many readers of this paper on the lake of fire that have as their idol their own false religious doctrines. And they are not willing to give them up, not even for Christ. And, many will not even go away "sadly" after reading this paper because they are so spiritually blind that they do not recognize their idols as idols.

Many spiritually blind believers think that they truly are disciples of Christ, but they go out telling the world that Jesus Christ will not take away the sin (singular ‘SIN’—ALL SIN) of the world, as John the Baptist plainly said under inspiration of God, that He would (John 1:29). And that Jesus Christ is NOT the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, even though His Father plainly said that He is (I John 4:14). And that God will not have all mankind to be saved, though God inspired Paul to say that He WILL save all mankind (I Tim. 2:4, & 4:10). Are such deceivers worthy to be called disciples and apostles of our Lord? I speak as a fool!
IS THE NEW COVENANT THE OLD COVENANT IN YOU HEART?

Now we are coming down to it. The church today teaches that the NEW Covenant or testament is keeping the OLD Covenant better. That’s right. They say that the New Covenant is keeping the OLD Covenant in your heart. That is clearly NOT what the Scriptures say. The New Covenant is decidedly,

"NOT IN ACCORD with the [Old] covenant which I made with their fathers" (Heb. 8:9).

"In that He says, A NEW covenant, He has made the first OLD. Now that which decays and waxes OLD is ready to VANISH AWAY" (Heb. 8;12).

And many more such Scriptures.

Now we already have clearly seen that Paul kept this Old Covenant Law of Moses contained in Ten Commandments (Deut.4:13), and he kept it BLAMELESSLY! And so Paul may be the only person who has ever came close to keeping the law "blamelessly" or perfectly. Most of Christendom would love to say that they keep the law of Moses "blamelessly!" They would be sooooo proud.

THE CHIEF OF SINNERS WAS THE PERFECT LAW KEEPER

Now then for the shocker! In I Tim. 1:15 we read this:

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation [in other words, what Paul is about to say is the absolute truth and worthy of considerable contemplation] that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, OF WHOM I AM CHIEF"!!

I covered these verses in great detail in a previous installment. Paul REALLY WAS the WORST, PREEMINENT SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED. Paul was truly "CHIEF of sinners"!! And we read where Paul was once "BLAMELESS in the keeping of the law of Moses."

Now then, WHEN was Paul (1) "BLAMELESS IN LAW KEEPING"? And WHEN was Paul (2) "the CHIEF OF SINNERS"? The answer: AT THE SAME TIME!!!

WHEN PAUL HAD REACHED THE ZENITH OF TOTAL OBEDIENCE AND ZEAL TO GOD UNDER THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES, IT CAUSED HIM AT THE SAME TIME TO BE THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER!!!

Paul was both THE MOST PERFECT LAW-KEEPER AND THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER, AT THE SAME TIME!!!

NO WONDER PAUL WROTE:

"Who also makes us competent dispensers of a NEW covenant, NOT of the letter, but OF the spirit, for the letter KILLS but the spirit gives LIFE" (II Cor. 3:6).

The Old Covenant written in Ten Commandments on stone tablets was an "ADMINISTRATION OF DEATH" (Ver. 7). And the letter will ALWAYS KILL:

"They shall put you out of the synagogues; yea, the time comes, that whosoever KILLS YOU will think that he does God service [by following the law of Moses under the Old Covenant]" (John 16:2).

To prove to God his GREATEST ZEAL, Paul persecuted and slaughtered the church, which was legal for him to do under the authority of the High Priest, Chief Priests, Elders and Council at the Temple in Jerusalem, of whom Jesus Himself said, "They SIT IN MOSES SEAT." And it was this very ZEAL FOR GOD that also made him the world’s WORST SINNER! Unbelievable! UNBELIEVABLE!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

But we must believe it—it is the Word of God!

PHARISEES ALWAYS COMMAND
KEEPING THE LAW OF MOSES

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed [yes, they were Christian Pharisees] saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES" (Acts 15:5).

Did the church and the elders and disciples now under the Apostles’ care agree with these Pharisees that the Gentles must "keep the law of Moses?" No, they absolutely did not. Read chapter 15 of Acts for yourself.

Paul came OUT of the religion of the Jews COMPLETELY.

"Yea doubtless, and I count ALL THINGS but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for Whom I have suffered the loss of ALL things, and do count them but DUNG, that I may win Christ" (Phil. 3:08).

The Christian world is teaching and striving to KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF MOSES IN THEIR HEARTS—The Apostle Paul already accomplished that feat and he called that great accomplishment of perfect commandment keeping—"DUNG"!

It was at this stage of Paul’s spiritual development and accomplishment that God labeled Paul "THE CHIEF OF SINNERS." Need I say more? Does anyone reading this "have an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches?"

And so the Pharisees today are still commanding everyone, everywhere to "KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES?" The Church does not understand that Jesus Christ is the REALITY of what the Old Covenant Laws of Moses were but the shadow.

In a previous installment I showed you how that God converted Saul into Paul in a giant flash of light. God took Paul from the world’s greatest law-keeper and the world’s greatest sinner into the reality of Jesus Christ in a matter of SECONDS! Paul was shaken to his very foundation on that glorious day on the road to Demascus.

Paul had to COME OUT of the mother church of which he was totally dedicated all the days of his life. Paul was a good Jew, but he was a bad Christian.

Many things that the Church today aspires to are the very things that Paul repented of and called "dung."

The "Jew’s religion" as Paul called it was the true Church of God that settled in Jerusalem after coming out of Egypt and out of the Wilderness. But within a short generation after our Lord’s crucifixion and resurrection, the Church of God, at the temple in Jerusalem, came to an end. And to this day, there is no more sacrificing, there is no more a temple and there is no more a Levitic Priesthood.

Ironically, in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, "church" is mentioned in but two Scriptures. In Matt. 18:17 Jesus refers to "the church" and in Matt. 16:18 He refers to "My church" which He said HE would build. And the seven churches in Rev. 2 & 3 are representative of and the personification of the church that Jesus Christ built. It was THAT church that Jesus built, that Paul the Judaic Pharisee, persecuted. Jesus prophesied that the church would be persecuted and scattered:

"And Jesus said unto them, ALL YE shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, ‘I will smite the Shepherd [the Christ], and the sheep shall be SCATTERED" (Mark 14:27).

The church multiplied in numbers very quickly after the Resurrection, but persecution multiplied also:

"And Saul was consenting unto his [Stephen’s] death. And at that time there was a GREAT PERSECUTION against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were ALL SCATTERED ABROAD throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles" (Acts 8:1).

GOD’S PEOPLE ARE STILL SCATTERED AND PERSECUTED

Well don’t think that the persecution of the Church stopped just because God converted Saul/Paul, the chief persecutor. It did not. Following Christ is synonymous with persecution:

"Yea, and ALL that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer PERSECUTION" (II Tim. 3:12).

Don’t be deceived into thinking that this persecution will come from the world of godless atheism.

God is creating Sons that bear His Name, have His Spirit, have the Mind of Christ, and are the express image of our Elder Brother, Jesus Christ. It is the highest calling in the universe! Although the sacrifices are great, the rewards are FAR GREATER!

If God is calling you to be a Son, you must come out of "Mystery Babylon the Great, mother of harlots, and the abominations of the earth."

When you see the truth of the seven churches of Revelation in our next installment, it may be the most troublesome truth you will ever encounter. There are few things in this world more bizarre or shocking than the truth of the Seven Churches of Revelation!
--------------------------------------------------------------
 
mercy, peace, and love
Kat


« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 02:06:54 AM by Kat »
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YellowStone

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2007, 01:08:19 AM »

Arcturus, I would like to ask you what you mean by your following statement, so that I can gain a greater understanding of where you are coming from. :)


For me there is only ONE Brother or Sister and THAT IS CHRIST in whomever is revealing HIM. My connection is to HIM. Paul showed in his writings that this was the intention and plan and purpose of Christ that we would eventually come to recognise HIM and that we might develop until we ALL attain oneness in the full and accurate knowledge of the SON OF GOD. Eph 4:13


Are you saying that you do not acknowledge fellow spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ, by stating that for you there is only one brother or sister and that is Christ? I am not understanding the "in whomever is revealing him" qualifier.

Based on what the Scriptures teach, asserting that their is only one brother or sister is a pretty bold statement and my intent is only to share the ramifications of such a stance. (in no way am I saying it is)  :)

The Scriptures clearly instruct that those who recieved Christ, he gave power (the spirit of truth) and these became "sons of God."

Jhn 1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

By definition, this makes such as these, spiritual brothers and sisters of Christ.

Paul spoke of the importance of this brother and sisterhood, and though he did not use this exact terminilogy, his intent is clear. :)

Eph 4:14  That we [henceforth] be no more children (the spiritual brethren), tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part (each spiritual brother and sister has a specific role in the body), maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Paul clearly understood the importance of recognizing his spiritual brothers and sisters and treating them well, for he knew full well that on this we shall all be judged.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
 
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.  

I hope that you take all of this in the good spirit in which it was written.

Love to you, In Christ Jesus Our Saviour,
Darren
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 01:19:33 AM by YellowStone »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2007, 05:16:34 PM »


Darren I can not give you understanding of where I am coming from.

For those or any who might be catching my drift, I am NOT saying what Darren presents. 

Suffice to say that to love the Lord your God is the prelude( ie is the first or introduction to loving one another AS CHRIST has loved us. Christ loved God the Father with all His being as we should love Christs Father with all our being and then we will find we are more like Christ who loved us enough to lay down His life for His friends. There is no greater friend that ANYONE can have than Christ and to put Christ first as our role model is the way to please the Father. 

Matt 22:37 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. (For me, The LORD our God IS Christ.) This is the great, most important principal and first commandment. 39 And a SECOND is LIKE IT: (not the first principal first commandment but the one LIKE or the IMAGE OF THE PRINCIPLE FIRST COMMANDMENT ) You shall love your NEIGHBOUR as you do your SELF. (Not you should love whoever says they are your neighbour or claims to be your neighbour....NOT THAT neighbour... ;D :D but the neighbour who is YOUR neighbour because they are YOUR neighbour...know what I mean.. :D ;D You do not regard or agree or imitate the Pope or the leaders in Mystery Babylon. Either man is your leader or Christ who is Spirit is the reason for your being. God the Father was the source, first principle and greatest love of Christ. HE, Christ Jesus set the example we are to follow. That is what I am trying to do.  ;D :D)

Peace to you

Arcturus

PS Darren I will not debate or argue one scripture, not one dot or tittle! ;D :D Think about where YOU are standing and NOT where I am COMING FROM! ;D :D That might help some but it will not be up to me if it does or doesn't! :D



« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 05:24:14 PM by Arcturus »
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skydreamers

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2007, 06:30:33 PM »

Darren and Arcturus,

oh boy, this may be a big mistake getting in the middle of you two ;).  I sincerely am not trying to take sides, but I do think I can see what Arcturus is saying.  How I received it is this way:

Christ comes first in all aspects, including brotherhood.  When a person is revealing the character of Christ, the very mind of Christ, and we call that person brother, we are first and foremost calling Jesus brother, because it is Jesus' life being lived in that brother. That is, at least, how I understood Arcturus statement:

Quote
For me there is only ONE Brother or Sister and THAT IS CHRIST in whomever is revealing HIM. My connection is to HIM.

Darren, I am not sure why you are asking Arcturus this question:

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Are you saying that you do not acknowledge fellow spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ?

Seems to me Arcturus is acknowledging fellow spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ on this forum all the time.  Her many edifying posts to others bears this out, so I'm confused as to the intent of your question?  I think I'm missing something ???

As for me personally, Darren, I was like you when I went to church...the whole "calling each other brother and sister thing" weirded me out and I never did it.  For me also, this forum is the first place I've felt comfortable even using those terms, but I think it's more because this place "feels" like family.  I recognize that it is a rare person who has come to a place where they truly express at all times the mind of Christ.  I know I have a very long way to go!  But I think we recognize in each other that we are all seeking and yearning to have the mind of the true Christ....and many people in the church are sadly following "another Jesus", though they may be unaware of it.

I'm happy to call you guys "family".  By the way Darren and Arcturus, I actually learn a lot from some of your debating posts....so I hope neither of you take offense to me offering my 2 cents ;)  :)

Peace,
Diana

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Kat

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2007, 06:37:31 PM »


Hi Darren,

There seems to be a bit of tension, let me see if I can help.
I don't see the problem you have with Arcturus first post, you ask;

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Are you saying that you do not acknowledge fellow spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ?

You came to think this by this statement from Arcturus right?

Quote
For me there is only ONE Brother or Sister and THAT IS CHRIST in whomever is revealing HIM. My connection is to HIM. Paul showed in his writings that this was the intention and plan and purpose of Christ that we would eventually come to recognise HIM and that we might develop until we ALL attain oneness in the full and accurate knowledge of the SON OF GOD. Eph 4:13

It seems to me that the previous pargraph explained that.  

Quote
As I meet up with each others differences I have come to realise there are no brothers and sisters amongst our SELVES. There are far too many imperfections in the vessels. I recognise brotherhood and sisterhood only where there is Christ made visible in the vessel of honour that is accepting and following in Christs ways, mind and spirit.

Doesn't this say "I recognise brotherhood and sisterhood...in Christ."

I may be wrong, but that is what it said to me  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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YellowStone

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2007, 06:46:52 PM »

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Thanks Kat!!!!!!   :)

I truly missed these words that Arcturus wrote!

As I meet up with each others differences I have come to realise there are no brothers and sisters amongst our SELVES. There are far too many imperfections in the vessels. I recognise brotherhood and sisterhood only where there is Christ made visible in the vessel of honour that is accepting and following in Christs ways, mind and spirit.

I can truthfuly say that I read and reread the post a number of times, even prayed for understanding and meditated on it :)

I can say also that I feel wonderful that God has chosen to bring me to understanding in this way! :)

Arcturus, please forgive my blindness; but, know that I can see "clearly" now! :)

Kat, thank you, thank you, thank you!

Love to you both in Christ,

Your brother,
Darren
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 06:47:35 PM by YellowStone »
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sansmile

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2007, 07:32:59 PM »

Amen Kat,
You saw what i saw in Arcturus's post  (but i was in work and couldn't respond)

God Bless 
Sandie
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YellowStone

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2007, 11:11:41 PM »

Arcturus,  your words were timely indeed :)

PS. Darren I will not debate or argue one scripture, not one dot or tittle!  :D  Think about where YOU are standing and NOT where I am COMING FROM!  :D  That might help some but it will not be up to me if it does or doesn't!

Thank you.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2007, 04:55:32 PM »

Dear Kat Diana and Sandie

Thank you for your helpful encouragements, kind words and insights.

John 3:4 I have no greater joy than this, to hear that my spiritual children are living their lives in the Truth.

I am not saying YOU are MY Children just that I believe John might say this to us all with me included I hope!

Darren.  You quoted Romans 14 vs 10 and 13.  The verses between that you omitted say this : For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, EVERY knee shall bow to ME, and EVERY tongue shall confess to God,…

And now here comes THE CLINCHER for all of us to recognise and take cognisance of…vs 12 SO…each of US, shall give and account of himSELF/herSELF to God.

For me, that last part says VOLUMES! My self and your self matter little it is YOUR self (and of course MY self) and  God’s self that is CHRIST – Christ IS GOD’S SELF, that counts for ALL AND EVERYTHING. Everything else follows! :D 8)

Oh and by the way, as for me, my self, is the beast. Only Christ is the Self worth knowing and expressing!


Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 04:57:29 PM by Arcturus »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2007, 06:00:49 PM »

Huh  ???... I "said so rightly " WHAT??? 

Oh well! :D ;D 8)...I am out of here!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 06:03:28 PM by Arcturus »
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skydreamers

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2007, 08:13:48 PM »

okay, I'm lost again  ???  

:D
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mari_et_pere

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Re: 'Brother' in scripture
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2007, 03:13:32 AM »

Are we done arguing yet?  :o ??? ::) ;)

No really though, I've thought about this for a couple days since I first replied to it. I guess I consider anyone who is following Christ and trying to learn the truth my brother. Or sister!

It's not one's fault per se, if they are believing the way their church leaders/TBN whoever, leads them to believe. I used to believe the TBN style nonsense. Would I have not been your brother then? Maybe since I don't totally see eye to eye with you now, nor you with me, am I not now your brother either? I certainly consider you all my brother or sister, even though I don't always fully agree with ya!  :o :D

We are all on a quest for the whole truth, correct? Do I have ALL the truth? Certainly not! Do you have it all? Again I say certainly not! We are brothers and sisters on the same journey to grow in Christ and learn his ways and truths.

I don't think any of this is unscriptual. If so let me know, but I'm pretty sure. For right now anyway.  :)

Peace

Matt
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