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Author Topic: is the holy spirit god???  (Read 4844 times)

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Jrila

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is the holy spirit god???
« on: May 21, 2007, 11:51:49 PM »

act 5:3-4 then peter said, "ananias, how is it that satan has filled your heart that u have lied to the holy spirit and have kept youreself some of the money you recieved for the land? didn't it belong to you before it was sold? and after it was sold, wasnt the money at  yore disposal? what made you do such a thing? you have not lied to men but to God!so when we lie to the holy spirit were lying to God!!!! when we grieve the holy spirit were grieving God!!! :)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:54:13 PM by Jrila »
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kudeta

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Re: is the holy spirit god???
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 12:37:57 AM »

The Holy Spirit is God, yes.

The Holy Spirit isn't a "third person of the triune God, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son."
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Jrila

  • Guest
Re: is the holy spirit god???
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2007, 03:25:06 AM »

kudeta-

thanx for responding!!! listen brother if the holy spirit is god why is he not coequal and coeternal?

i want to show u two verses that may explain.

hebrew 9:14-how much more, then, will the blood of christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to god, cleanse or coinscience from acts that lead to death,so that we may serve the living god!

now lets read 1john 5:7 for there are thre that bare record in heaven, the father, the son, and the holy spirit:and these three are one!

thank u brother god bless!!!

« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 03:31:19 AM by Jrila »
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Robin

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Re: is the holy spirit god???
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2007, 04:13:00 AM »

Here is one of Ray's papers that may interest you Jrila.

Is God a Closed TRINITY or an Open FAMILY?
[A Scriptural Refutation of the Trinity Theory]

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html
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kudeta

  • Guest
Re: is the holy spirit god???
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2007, 04:36:50 AM »

Quote from: Jrila
thanx for responding!!! listen brother if the holy spirit is god why is he not coequal and coeternal?

Your reading is selective.  "He" is not coequal because "He" is not a person.

As I answered you in the other Trinity thread:

Quote from: kudeta
I think you misunderstand the point about the "Trinity."  The Holy Spirit is sometimes a way of referring to God, a manifestation of God.  It is in no sense an additional being.

When God manifests as a Burning Bush, and as a Pillar of Cloud, do we point and say, "Oh, look!  A Fourth and Fifth being that comprise God!  I guess we've got a Holy Pentity!"?

Of course we don't, because there's simply no reason to do so.  The Burning Bush and Pillar of Cloud, just like the Holy Spirit, are never discussed as being distinct Beings from YHWH.

Re: 1 John 5:7:

The paper M.G. just cited speaks quite specifically to this:

Quote from: L. Ray Smith
First of all we must dispense with I John 5:7 which reads in the King James Version

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

There is a problem with this verse. The words that I typed in bold print are not Scripture. They should NOT be in the Bible. There are many Bibles that do not contain these words. Here are a few:

The Concordant Literal New Testament: "...seeing that three there are that are testifying, the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are for the one thing."

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures: "For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement."

A New Translation by James Moffatt: "The witnesses are three, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three of them are in accord."

The Emphatic Diaglott: "For there are three which testify; the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are of one."

The Emphatic Diaglott has a footnote:

"This text concerning the heavenly witnesses [as found in some versions] is NOT contained in ANY Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the 15th century. It is not cited by ANY of the Greek ecclesiastical writers; nor by ANY of the early Latin fathers..."

The Holy Bible--New Catholic Version: "For there are three that bear witness [in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth]: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three are one."

The brackets are supplied by the translators. This version also has a footnote:

"According to the evidence of many manuscripts, and the majority of commentators, these verses should read: ‘For there are three that bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three are one.’ The Holy See reserves to itself the right to pass finally on the origin of the present reading."

The New Testament from 26 Translations: Footnote, page 1183:

"The words between ‘bear record’ (verse 7) and ‘the spirit’ (verse 8) are now recognized as not adequately supported by original manuscripts."

As those words were hand written in a copy of a manuscript as late as the 15th century and do not appear in ANY Greek manuscript, they have no place in the inspired Word of God.

Blessings,
 - John
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 04:40:38 AM by kudeta »
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Jrila

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Re: is the holy spirit god???
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2007, 05:31:31 AM »

john,

  i dont really get into all that whut the different bibles say because really they all have the same meaning just worded differntly to be in agreement is to be one and the word of god is perfect there are no errors if that one verse is incorrect than the whole king james bible is wrong if u ask me but like i was saying  if u say the holy spirit isnt god thats like saying who i am, really isnt me. think about it were all spirits in human bodies right? why cant gods spirit be him as well? does that make sence?

ok if the holy spirit isnt god who is he? or if the holy spirit isn't a person what is he?

i mean how can a holy sprit grieve eph 4:30

How can the holy spirit talk hebrews 3:7

how does he have a mind romans 8:27

how does he intercede (mediate)  romans 8:26

that sounds like a person to me i mean only a person can do these things right?  and if it is a person who is he??? 

« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 05:40:28 AM by Jrila »
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kudeta

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Re: is the holy spirit god???
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2007, 06:03:26 AM »


Quote from: Jrila
i dont really get into all that whut the different bibles say because really they all have the same meaning just worded differntly to be in agreement is to be one and the word of god is perfect there are no errors if that one verse is incorrect than the whole king james bible is wrong if u ask me

That the different translations translate the verses differently is not important.  The important thing to notice is: "This text concerning the heavenly witnesses [as found in some versions] is NOT contained in ANY Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the 15th century. It is not cited by ANY of the Greek ecclesiastical writers; nor by ANY of the early Latin fathers..."

The line was not in the original books of the Bible.  NONE of the manuscripts written before the 15th century have the line.  That means someone ADDED IT LATER.

It DOES NOT MEAN that the whole King James is wrong, it just means that it was translated from a newer, manuscript which has an errant line in it.

Quote from: Jrila
but like i was saying  if u say the holy spirit isnt god thats like saying who i am, really isnt me. think about it were all spirits in human bodies right? why cant gods spirit be him as well? does that make sence?

I'd disclaim that I don't mean to be rude, but I mean to be slightly rude:  I don't think you're actually reading what I'm writing down.

God is Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is not a third Person in any sense.

Quote from: Jrila
ok if the holy spirit isnt god who is he?

The Holy Spirit is God.  I've already said this.  You're making the case for your not reading my posts stronger.

Quote from: Jrila
or if the holy spirit isn't a person what is he?

It isn't a third person.  The Holy Spirit is God.

Quote from: Jrila
i mean how can a holy sprit grieve eph 4:30

It isn't a third person.  The Holy Spirit is God.

Quote from: Jrila
How can the holy spirit talk hebrews 3:7

It isn't a third person.  The Holy Spirit is God.

Quote from: Jrila
how does he have a mind romans 8:27

It isn't a third person.  The Holy Spirit is God.

Quote from: Jrila
how does he intercede (mediate)  romans 8:26

It isn't a third person.  The Holy Spirit is God.

Quote from: Jrila
that sounds like a person to me i mean only a person can do these things right?  and if it is a person who is it???

It isn't a third person.  The Holy Spirit is God.

Blessings,
 - John
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Jrila

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Re: is the holy spirit god???
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2007, 06:50:29 AM »

brother please listen by the way i am reading whut youe saying trust me and thats good u believe that the holy spirit is god but i gettin confused when u said  that the holy spirit wasnt equal to god because what i got out of it was u were were sayin that the holy spirit wasnt god cuz to say the holy spirit is god in one breath then say he's not equal to god puzzled me because  he is god your right but the point im trying to make is this the father, son, and holy spirit are the same, they just have different roles one is not higher then the other cuz like you said the holy spirit is god but why say he's not equal to god if he is god???
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Craig

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  • There are two kinds of cops.The quick and the dead
Re: is the holy spirit god???
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2007, 09:31:40 AM »

Jrila I suggest you do a few things.

1)  Read the forum Rules and how it is moderated

      http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html
      http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

2)  Read Rays study on this subject.  And many emails

     http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html

3)  Listen to Rays latest audio on Christ, located at the bottom

     http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

Craig
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