Should I forgive someone who has done Mark 3: 27-30?

[Fira]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark 3: 27-30 states about The Unpardonable Sin.

The Unforgivable Sin these days is to call The Works or Miracles of or even Just The Holy Spirit to be an of an Evil Spirit/Evil Spirits or calling The Holy Spirit a Demonic/Satanic Spirit/Spirits is also unforgivable.

If someone does The Unpardonable Sin and I know of it must I forgive him/her/them?

If I state that The Unpardonable Sin is sooo bad even I can't (can not or cannot) forgive it would God frown upon that?

I am confused about forgiveness.


Sorry if this post is a bother to anyone (i.e. too confusing etc.).

[eggi]

Hi Fira,

First of all, there is no such thing as "The Unpardonable Sin".

The verses in the KJV read:

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. (Mar 3:28-30 KJV)

Notice how the KJV translators handled Matthew 12:32 which speaks about the same thing:

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
(Mat 12:32 KJV)

The problem with Mark 3:29 in the KJV, is that the translators left out VERY IMPORTANT words. "Hath never forgiveness" should read:

but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness--to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;' (Mar 3:29 YLT)

yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin- (Mar 3:29 CLV)

This is in agreement with Mat 12:32:

And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming. (Mat 12:32 YLT)

And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mat 12:32 CLV)

There are several ages ahead. Those who commit this sin will not be forgiven in this age, or in the coming age, simply because they will not repent of it. We have this present evil age (Gal 1:4), and the age which is to come (Eph 1:21), and then Paul simply tells us that there are AGES yet to come (Eph 2:7).

The reason why it will not be forgiven NOW, is that they will not repent of it now. Fira, that is why anyone who commits "the unpardonable sin" will not be forgiven, because they don't ASK for forgiveness. As of now...

You might also check out this reply:

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#unpardonable

Hope this helps your understanding,

God bless you,
Eirik

[hillsbororiver]

The reason why it will not be forgiven NOW, is that they will not repent of it now. Fira, that is why anyone who commits "the unpardonable sin" will not be forgiven, because they don't ASK for forgiveness. As of now...

Hi Eirik,

A very thorough and thoughtful response! The key to this is what you stated above, the unforgivable sin is the sin that is unrepented.

We can empathize with those who cannot see the errors of certain doctrines or lifestyles or idols of the heart but how can forgiveness be granted or given if it is not sought, requested or if the need of repentence is unrecognized and unseen?

There are also times when we or our brethren may have a particular sin/weakness that repeatedly causes stumbling and failure along our/their Spiritual walk, this is not an indication of any unpardonable sin, if we/they are thinking about it, concerned about it and feel helpless about it then we can be assured that the Spirit is indeed working on us/them, if there is no concern and we/they feel justified in ours/their thought and action the sin is unforgiven because it is unrepented.

As far as us forgiving our brothers and sisters we have this admonishment from the Master;

Mat 18:21  Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Mat 18:22  Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[eggi]

Joe,

I agree with you. You brought out the nuances!

[...]if we/they are thinking about it, concerned about it and feel helpless about it then we can be assured that the Spirit is indeed working on us/them, if there is no concern and we/they feel justified in ours/their thought and action the sin is unforgiven because it is unrepented.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (2Th 2:3 KJV)

We must return to this again and again, revealing the man of sin IN US, and forgive others if we expect to be forgiven ourselves.

God bless you,
Eirik

[Deborah-Leigh]

Therefore there is now NO CONDEMNATION, no adjudging guilty of wrong for those who are in Christ Jesus.Rom 8:1

For me this means we are neither condemned and we also do not condemn others because we know that all will be  brought to repentance by God in the end either by Judgement or by revelation. This does not mean we do not pray for our enemies and for their repentance. How I understand this is
that the chosen now, and the called, latter, will unite under the feet of Christ in worship of Him ultimately and then God will be all in all when Christ turns Himself and the Kingdom over to The Father. This does not eliminate the difference between the called and the chosen, the lost and the found and the wise and the stupid virgins.

The great equaliser will be the return of Christ and the Resurrection of the dead either to life or to correction in judgement. After that, THEN ALL will bow to Christ and not just the chosen, the found and the wise!

As for the "unpardonable sin" that too will be straightened out in the LOF for those who are hardened of heart and feel no accountability! They too will be saved. Isn't the Fathers plan just awesome!

Peace to you

Arcturus.

[rocky]

I personally don't believe the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unrepented sin.  I believe it is turning from Christ, after once having tasted the power of the Spirit.  Turning back to law, self righteousness for our salvation. 

Jud 1:3 Beloved! though I was using all diligence to be writing unto you concerning our common salvation, yet have I had necessity to write at once unto you, exhorting you to be earnestly contending for, the faith, once for all delivered unto the saints.

Jud 1:4 For there have crept in unobserved certain men, who, from of old, have been publicly notified for this sentence, ungodly, men, the favour of our God, turning into wantonness, and, our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ, denying.

Jud 1:10 But, these, whatsoever things, indeed, they know not, they defame; but, whatsoever things, naturally, like the irrational creatures, they well understand, by these, are they, bringing themselves to ruin.

Jud 1:12 These are they—who, in your love-feasts, are hidden rocks, as they fare sumptuously together, fearlessly, themselves, shepherding,—clouds without water, by winds swept along, trees autumnal, fruitless, twice dead, uprooted,

Twice dead, there's something to meditate on.  To me, twice dead is: dead once prior to the spirit being given, then tasted LIFE through the Spirit, then not staying faithful to the end, turning back to old covenant/administration of death=TWICE DEAD.

Unbelief after first having belief is to be twice dead, (interesting twice dead, and  in Revelation "second death")


Jud 1:13 Wild waves of sea, foaming out their own infamies, wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness age-abiding hath been reserved.

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of the hope without wavering,—for, faithful, is he that hath promised;

Heb 10:26 For, if, by choice, we be sinning, after the receiving of the full-knowledge of the truth, no longer, for sins, is there left over, a sacrifice,

Heb 10:27 But some fearful reception of judgment and fiery jealousy, about to devour the opposers.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be accounted worthy, who hath trampled underfoot the Son of God, and, the blood of the covenant, hath esteemed, a profane thing, by which he had been made holy, and, unto the Spirit of favour, hath offered wanton insult?

Heb 10:31 A fearful thing it is to fall into the hands of a Living God!

Heb 10:38 But, my righteous one, by faith, shall live, and, if he draw back, my soul delighteth not in him.

Heb 10:39 We, however, are not of a drawing back unto destruction, but, of faith, unto an acquisition of life.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that, Jesus, is the Christ, of God, hath been born: and, whosoever loveth him that begat, loveth him that hath been begotten of him.

1Jo 5:4 Because, whatsoever hath been born of God, overcometh the world; and, this, is the victory that hath overcome the world—our faith.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible—as to these who have been, once for all, illuminated, who have tasted also of the heavenly free-gift, and have been made, partners, in a Holy Spirit,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted God's utterance to be, sweet, mighty works also of a coming age,

Heb 6:6 And who have fallen away, again, to be remoulding them into repentance; seeing they are again crucifying unto themselves the Son of God, and holding him up as an example.

Heb 6:7 For, land, which hath drunk in, the rain, thereupon ofttimes coming, and which bringeth forth vegetation fit for them for whom it is even cultivated, partaketh of a blessing from God;

Heb 6:8 But, should it be bringing forth thorns and briars, it is disapproved, and, unto cursing, nigh,—whose end is for burning.


Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure (stay faithful to the Spirit) unto the end, the same shall be saved.

would love to hear you all thoughts. 

[rocky]

Still thinking about "twice dead", and uprooted .  I did an esword search, and thot these verses also be interesting.

1Ki 14:15  For the LORD shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their groves, provoking the LORD to anger.

Psa 52:5  God shall likewise destroy thee forever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah.

Isa 5:24  Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Jer 1:10  See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

Mal 4:1  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mat 3:10  And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 13:6  And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Mat 13:21  Yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Luk 8:13  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

1Ti 6:10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Heb 12:15  Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

[hillsbororiver]

I personally don't believe the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unrepented sin.  I believe it is turning from Christ, after once having tasted the power of the Spirit.  Turning back to law, self righteousness for our salvation. 

Hi Rocky,

Interesting post for sure, if we are not convicted by the Spirit to repent, if our hearts have been hardened and our eyes blinded to our sins then that will have the result of being cast into the Lake of Fire.

If we are remorsefull over our continued stumbling that is the proof the Spirit is working in us, if we feel complacency and justify our continued sinning that is rejecting or blasphemy against the Spirit, feeling no need to repent we don't, unrepented sin means the second death awaits.

Luk 13:3  I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Rev 2:5  Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

His Peace to you,

Joe

P.S. Rocky do you have a twin or a family member who also belongs to the Forum? Your style of writing and the questions you pose remind me of another (infrequent) poster/member.

Just curious...

[Kat]

Hi rocky,

I personally don't believe the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unrepented sin.  I believe it is turning from Christ, after once having tasted the power of the Spirit.  Turning back to law, self righteousness for our salvation.

I can see the point you are making, but it seems it would be unrepented sin to blasphemy the Holy Spirit.  Because the person would not understand it as a sin, but believe they are right, thus not repent.
Something else I noticed is this scripture.

Mat 12:32 And, whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him,—but, whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or the coming.

This is saying that they will not be forgiven in the next age.  We know when Christ returns He will bring judgment to the world.  So this must mean some will not be saved during that age, I have just come to consider this. 
Do not have any other scriptures on this now, but was just wondering about it.

mercy, peac, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Here is what I see.

Judas Iscariot had all the privileges of the other Disciples. He walked with Jesus. He talked with Jesus. He was on the inside track so to speak. Yet, he was appointed to be the vessel of dishonour.

Jesus prayed for Peter when Satan desired to sift him like wheat. Jesus did not pray for Judas and Satan entered him to do his work of betrayal.

For me this means we should never take for granted where we think we are in our walk with Jesus. We may look like we are Disciples but only Jesus knows how He is going to author our faith in the end. On Him we are totally dependent for our faith, election and entry into His Kingdom!

peace to you

Arcturus

[Nancy]

hi there all,

I have to challenge you all here as i have suffered terribly, thinking that i have committed this sin myself, and i cannot let this go!
This sin is a person knowing how Jesus healed (that He healed using Gods' power) like the Pharisees did (as their own disciples healed with Gods' power) but rebuke and slander that power,rebuking the person healing, in this case, Christ. So Jesus said that they were not really slandering Him but God Himself! To score points, they were blaspheming God Himself and they knew it!
I do not believe that it can be committed today, as it can only be committed in this age (Jesus' age) and the age to come, the millenium age)
St. Paul tells us to test the spirits to see if they are from God and not counterfeit and that the devil can appear as an angel of light. Believers couldn't have done this if they were afraid of committing this sin.

I also believe that miracles that were performed in Acts (speaking in languages, healing, raising the dead, and not being poisoned by snakes) are not for today.
I do not believe that it is unrepented sin, not accepting an altar call (whatever that is) i was told by one person.

I was terrified that i had committed it because i had blaspemous thoughts such as 'i agree what the pharisees said' and thoughts like that and having terrible language together with God and Jesus' name, etc. It is pretty painful even to write these things down but i have to, to get over the fear of it, so i hope that you all have pity and bear with me in this.
God bless
Nancy

[Kat]

Hi Nancy,

It sounds like you are still in a lot of pain over this sin 
I have suffered a lot remembering sin in my past, guilt is a terrible thing.  But when God leads you to repentance, you can be sure He will forgive you.  I think you can then put your old life in the pass, and free to grow in the truth.

1John 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
v. 9  If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Here is an email from Ray, I hope it will help 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4009.0.html ------------

  Dear Alan:
        If you had committed what is popularly referred to as "The Unpardonable SIN," believe me when I tell you, that you would not be worried about it. People who blaspheme against God's Holy Spirit and lower Jesus down to their level or the level of Satan or demons, do not worry at all about what they have done. If you are deeply concerned that you may have offended God, then for sure that is not an attitude of blaspheming God's Holy Spirit. It doesn't mean that you are saved, as we must all overcome and endure to be saved in the resurrection to life, but you can rest in your spirit and have no fear that you are hopelessly lost, for you are not.
        God be with you,
        Ray
-----------------------------------------------------------   
     
John 8:32  And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[rocky]

IMO, there is a difference between sin done ignorantly versus willful sin.

IMO, willful sin, is not the daily sins we do, but the turning from grace back to law, denying the need for Christ, and trusting in the works of the law, which brings about second death (death again, through the law, the ministration of death).     

Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen (fallen from where?  imo from grace), and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

1Ti 1:13  Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Mat 12:31  Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men (ignorant blasphemy imo): but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (willful sin, falling from grace) shall not be forgiven unto men.

Luk 23:34  Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,

Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away (from grace imo), to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Mat 12:32  And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Maybe this is where the different intensity of stripes comes in.

Few stripes for ignorant sin, many stripes for willful sin??

[Deborah-Leigh]

Nancy

I think we can all empathise with you!

The nagging thought of inadequacy and sinful wretchedness lead me to wonder just how much confidence and hope and trust I placed in Christ and His death on Calvery. Just how powerful was that act of laying down His life, I asked myself? Did I trust Christ to deliver, heal and restore me? Was NOT TRUSTING Him the unpardonable sin perhaps?

Jesus Christ has given hope in Him by what He has accomplished at Calvery. Non can offer any merit to deserve this deliverance or forgiveness. Only Jesus can give us confidence and knowledge of the Love the Father has for Him and for us who love His Son. Are you not perhaps being given the opportunity to ask Christ to make you see, set you free and humble before His Greatness and Authority over anything anyone can ever do or earn punishment for. He converted the worst sinner Saul and renamed him Paul. Have you done worse than Saul? Okay Okay, I know that to break one law is to break ALL Laws. Is it not so that we break all laws anyway by not trusting Christ and knowing that we live no longer under Laws but Grace by faith?

Just some thoughts to think on perhaps Nancy that might help you.

For me the "unpardonable" sin is a Boogie Man that is not taught properly by the Churches who employ doctrines to bind, snare and terrify into captivity the sheep that are searching for the Shepherd.

To me an alive and awake conscience is better than a dead one and praise Jesus He is keeping your conscience alive and well and not seared as with a hot iron!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Nancy]

Hi there Kat,
No, the reason why i sound hurt, is that i suffered like i've never done before, because of feeling that i had committed this sin and no amount of reassurance took away that dreadful feeling. Not even elders or preachers could reassure me of what this sin was!!  So if i can help one person, then i have done my job (through God of course)!
I probably have mentioned that i suffer from OCD which is also called the doubting disease.  You have a thought, image, etc that is repugnant, then you have to do something to relieve the fear.  It is to do with a lack of serotonin in the brain, so it is a physical condition which can't be helped.
Hope this makes sense.
God bless
Nancy

[mrl1970]

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Maybe this is where the different intensity of stripes comes in.

Few stripes for ignorant sin, many stripes for willful sin??

As far as the amount of stripes one may receive I believe so Rocky.

Luke 12:47-49

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

[rocky]

IMO, there is a difference between sin done ignorantly versus willful sin.

IMO, willful sin, is not the daily sins we do, but the turning from grace back to law, denying the need for Christ, and trusting in the works of the law, which brings about second death (death again, through the law, the ministration of death).     

Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen (fallen from where?  imo from grace), and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

1Ti 1:13  Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Mat 12:31  Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men (ignorant blasphemy imo): but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (willful sin, falling from grace) shall not be forgiven unto men.

Luk 23:34  Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,

Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away (from grace imo), to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Mat 12:32  And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Maybe this is where the different intensity of stripes comes in.

Few stripes for ignorant sin, many stripes for willful sin??

As far as the amount of stripes one may receive I believe so Rocky.

Luke 12:47-49

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

awesome, thanks for the scripture.