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Author Topic: haughty vs. humble  (Read 10404 times)

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hillsbororiver

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haughty vs. humble
« on: April 12, 2006, 01:25:01 PM »

The following is an e-mail Ray recently received and the writer sounds very familiar, but since I am not 100% sure (just 98%) I will not speculate as to who it is. Actually it isn't really importand as Ray and us in the forum will be dealing with these type of critics for the foreseeable future.

There are times when we debate amongst ourselves as to how we should interact with or dialogue with people who do not hold many of the beliefs we share, it has been my contention that when someone comes to us with a humble spirit seeking understanding, even if their present beliefs are diametrically opposed to ours we should treat them with patience, longsuffering and with respect.

On the other hand when folks come in with a haughty, arrogant attitude using ridicule and showing not even a minimum amount respect for Ray's work or this forum then we should not hesitate to seperate ourselves from them until the time comes when they are willing to "reason together" in a mutually respectful atmosphere, debating and arguing is what they are hoping to accomplish and this activity leaves many of us with an unsettled, troubled spirit and who knows the effect it has on new members, especially those who regularly visit but rarely if ever post. Well, here is the example I am speaking of;


 Just a quick question I believe your intelligence has come full circle to the point of blatant ignorance. I have read your letters and ramblings. you say that people will not burn for ever or eons or aions or whatever other word you can find in your Greek thesaurus anyway Rev 20:15 says "and whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire sure does sound like a place of torment to me. But I have probably misunderstood what the scriptures were saying...hmmm let me guess this is speaking symbolically and not literally right? I just can't help but think that the lake of fire is going to be extra hot for you. (i know, i know it is not scriptural it is just a figure of speech just thought i would throw that in just in case you were going to right a letter that i could use at church to show people about the false prophets rising up in these last days to scatter the flock) any way how about getting one book that you can stand on as the Word of God all these books you use to try to prove your point only proves to me that you are riding the fence, wishy-washy, lukewarm, afraid to stand for anything for fear that your wrong, coward, yellow,...etc.

ps. just keep giving me ammunition i love shooting you down


Dear Nameless:

You call me a "coward" and you are afraid to use your own name?

"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" (Prov. 16:18).

You are filled with pride and your spirit reeks of haughtiness, and therefore destruction is in your path and you will fall.

Ray


Joe
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 11:56:26 AM by hillsbororiver »
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shibboleth

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2006, 02:11:02 PM »

Pro.10:12 A scoffer does not love one who reprove him; He will not go to the wise.
Pro.10:28 The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer, But the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things.
Pro.26:1-5 Like snow in summer and like rain in harvest, So honor is not fitting for a fool. Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, So a curse without cause does not alight. A whip for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, And a rod for the back of fools, Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him. Answer a fool as his folly deserves, lest he be wise in his own eyes.

There are times, depending on the circumstances, when we are to answer a fool, especially the mocking sarcastic, come on let's fight, kind of fool.
But some people, with a more tender heart, just don't understand and are trying to make sense out of scriptural truths.

I will never understand how people can say Ray is rambling and unintelligent. I am reading his Free Will series again and I have always been impressed with Rays scholarly work. He appeals to the ordinary person. He doesn't talk down to people. He explains, in easily understood terms, what he believes and know to be true.

This person, claims to have his ammunition to shoot Ray with. I think his ammunition has been used already and it was only a water gun.  And he had the gun pointing at himself, so he is the one who got wet.

How can anyone call Ray a coward? He had his name and website out for the whole world to see. He has an e-mail address for people with questions.

this man seems to think Revelation is to be taken literally. Here are scriptures from Rev. Are any of these thing literal?
Rev.2:1 To the angel of the chuch in Ephesus write: The one who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
Rev.2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads my bond-servants astray, so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
Rev.3:1 I know yourdeeds, that you have a name that you are alive, and you are dead.

Are there literal stars and lampstands? Is Jezebel a real person or a personification of evil? Are those in Sardis literally dead, or is this spiritual death? You can't read very far in Rev. {the first verse} before you come into many problems if you take most of what is said as literal.

I think, as you do Joe, that a lot of the people who were put out of BT are back. They changed their names, but their MO is still the same.
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jennie

  • Guest
what????
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2006, 02:17:42 PM »

Maybe the writer ( in blue) could use the term"literal symbolism(?!?). Now, I wonder what that means???? Ya'll have a good day and just remember sometimes people just want to be hateful!
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Falconn003

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2006, 02:21:28 PM »

hillsbororiver

I ask myself " why even bother to read the rest of this child's post ???".

No remorse = no reconcilation by him or his church .

yet were is the love they proclaim.

Rodger
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Harryfeat

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2006, 02:28:16 PM »

Hello Joe,

What is edifying about this post?  If you as a moderator, believe this is a member of the forum then why don't you confront them and be rid of them.  

I don't like reading such childish attacks of Ray any more than the rest of us. Isn't one of the reasons for  the emails to Ray forum  to make us aware of what kinds of things are being sent to him?

If you want to make your  point to everyone who reads or joins the forum, maybe you could put it in the rules.  

Perhaps eveyone who signs up for  the forum could answer a questionnaire so that you could see if they were like minded. Just a thought

feat
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hillsbororiver

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haughty vs. humble
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2006, 03:32:22 PM »

Quote from: Harryfeat
Hello Joe,

What is edifying about this post?  If you as a moderator, believe this is a member of the forum then why don't you confront them and be rid of them.  

I don't like reading such childish attacks of Ray any more than the rest of us. Isn't that what the emails to Ray forum  is for anyway?


feat


Hi feat,

I believe any situation or example we learn from is edifying, we have had a few detractors come through the forum and I suspect will continue to have them for some time. The question will be how do we treat this person? For those who disagree respectfully we should be patient, they may be here seeking answers to questions they haven't even formulated yet.

The rude and arrogant who come in here seeking to cause strife and division need to be shown the door as quickly as possible so they won't be able to attain their goal.

My purpose in posting this was to give a clear example of a haughty spirit, and to suggest to our members that debating or arguing with them is generally a fruitless endeavor.

As to your question about why this person is not confronted? If this is who I think it is they have been confronted and banned.

You will see on the top of the page of the e-mails to Ray section that we should not post there but to copy and paste them in the General Discussion area.

Thank you for your questions and comments,

Joe
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love_magnified

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2006, 03:48:41 PM »

Thanks for posting it. It is clear that some desire their enemies be tortured with literal fire. Some people believe that but they do not want it. Some people are emotionally affected by it either negatively or positively. Some people see it through a detached theological standpoint and couldn't care less either way deep inside. The Lord Jesus is within us to help us decipher and he will respond through us and instruct us. Let us stay in the spirit.
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Harryfeat

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haughty vs. humble
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2006, 03:48:57 PM »

Thanks Joe

I must have edited my post while you were responding.  I thought it was a bit terse so I modified it a bit to help explain what I was thinking.  

I understand your purpose a little better.

feat
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gmik

  • Guest
haughty & humble
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2006, 04:32:00 PM »

Sometimes I wish Ray would not accept e mails at all and just concentrate on teaching. I know he has been called to help us understand the scriptures and lead us "out", but these awful e mails are hateful attacks against him as a man, person, Christian, teacher, mighty man of valor etc etc....I wish he wouldn't use up his time.  That's me.  AS Ray is a man of God and knows His voice,. I am sure Ray knows what he is doing
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Indagator

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2006, 04:50:18 PM »

Really, I wish if someone were going to try to refute what is taught here, they would back it up with scripture...and with more than just a one liner from Revelation.  I'm betting the reason they don't is because they can't do it.  Posting angry, useless, baseless arguments don't help anyone either way.  It's just a waste of bandwidth.  Heh, what a shame.
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rvhill

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haughty vs. humble
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2006, 05:01:15 PM »

I just want to post about two things in this post the rest is foolish?  First Ray believe in and teaches the doctrine of Jesus. Ray also say that Jesus is the way and only way. Ray proclaims Jesus, Christ and Lord. Now let say that Ray is wrong and they are right. Does that mean that Rays is going to hell? The Bible say No, ray is going to be saved, yet many of this type, post things like this
Quote
I just can't help but think that the lake of fire is going to be extra hot for you.
. Now I ask you are they being consistent with their own teaching

Second thing I never get is
Quote
that you are riding the fence, wishy-washy, lukewarm, afraid to stand for anything for fear that your wrong, coward, yellow,...etc.
so is Ray a fence rider, no. is ray wishy washy, no. is Ray Lukewarm, hardly. Is Ray afraid, not really. Ray could be wrong, but he is none of the above.
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Falconn003

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2006, 07:33:38 PM »

you know these guys spent alot of time picturing the hell torment in many, many diferent aspects, yet when ya ask them " so whats heaven gonna be like....???"  you get little if any at all, in agreement .


Rodger
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ertsky

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2006, 08:27:39 PM »

i'd rather a roofer filled with the spirit of God slap me lightly to wake me up while telling me the Truth all the while serving God

rather than some eloquent smoothy taking me to deception with perfect diction and manners

spirituality is not "would you like another cup of tea vicar"

spirituality is faithfulness to the doctrine of Christ

i'm not really interested in style i'm interested in content

many peoples style irks me, i say nothing of their style only the content

yet my style is overfocussed on to the extreme

it's just a trick of the enemy to avoid content

i seek Truth not style

f
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hillsbororiver

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haughty vs. humble
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2006, 10:55:38 PM »

Quote from: Harryfeat
Thanks Joe

I must have edited my post while you were responding.  I thought it was a bit terse so I modified it a bit to help explain what I was thinking.  

I understand your purpose a little better.

feat


Hello feat, I never thought your original post was terse, I thought it was a valid question. Sometimes the e-mails Ray receives are upsetting and we come to this forum hoping to edify and be edified only to be exposed to letters such as this.

Again, the point I was trying to make is that usually you can detect the spirit in which people are coming in after a few posts, it is virtually impossible to disguise for long, I was hoping we would practice patience with folks who believe differently but are seeking truth and that we would send away those whose only mission is to disrupt and divide.

Thank you,

Joe
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Sorin

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haughty vs. humble
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2006, 03:48:28 AM »

Quote from: Falconn003
you know these guys spent alot of time picturing the hell torment in many, many diferent aspects, yet when ya ask them " so whats heaven gonna be like....???"  you get little if any at all, in agreement .


Rodger



That's because they focus more on their " Hell " fable than their " Heaven " fable. So my question to them would be, when is the space ship coming?
Orthodox Christianity meets every single qualification of a cult. yup, that's right.
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ertsky

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haughty vs. humble
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2006, 05:11:12 AM »

i always think of that situation

where you have two guys really arguing angrily (not that that is the case here at all, Ray is much too wise)

but think of it

two really angry guys going at it, and escalating hosility in post after post at one another, till one of them can't take it any more and in fury he types

step outside and let's settle this like men !!

LOL!

f

truly sometimes we are our own worst enemy
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worm

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2006, 05:44:37 AM »

I think we should seek understanding on why some people go at Ray they do...

here's a theory:
I think we have all experienced this to some agree when we have come to the realisation that God is going to save all...we who have been in the churches have always been a little exclusive club...we have "found Jesus" but there were so many "out there" who were lost...we felt special because we we're not going to go to hell and burn forever...no...our Jesus died for US and US only

now...for some people to even contemplate the possibility that many things they have been taught are WRONG...just goes way above their heads...I myself have felt anger, disgust and many negative feelings towards the church at first when my eyes opened and my Jericho came crashing down around me...but some people wish to hold onto those walls of seperation...seperation from "those out there" and separation from God...it really doesn't make sense but it happens...

I've had friends telling me that "if I have to believe you and your UR stuff, I have to throw everything away I was taught by my parents, my church, my bible school and college"

for most people, it is hard to "let go" of the law and the milk and the first principles and the community in the church...

so to make a long story short...I think we should treat ALL people with patience and brotherly love...even those that attack us and would like to hurt us with their words...if we don't show love and patience to all people, who will?

Jesus Himself said that "what good is it if we just love those who love us?"
the non-believers do the same...and we should be different than darkness...we should be lights :D  :wink:

Once we have reached a little spiritual maturity...we should realise that it doesn't matter what anyone do to us...it is how we react to or engage with them...even if they crucify us...we should still love and forgive them like our older brother and Father do...not true?
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jennie

  • Guest
agree
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2006, 10:21:12 AM »

I agree totally!!!
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shibboleth

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2006, 01:44:57 PM »

Here's a scripture for you Ertsky about the two cyberspace guys getting in a fight.

1Cor.9:26 therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim, I BOX IN SUCH A WAY AS NOT BEATING THE AIR.

So, if you want to duke it out in cyberspace, you are just beating the air. I can just see each guy sitting at his screen pretenting he is getting the final shot when he is only boxing air. Just thought it was kind of humorous.
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ertsky

  • Guest
haughty vs. humble
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2006, 07:51:20 PM »

Hi There worm

Quote
but some people wish to hold onto those walls of seperation...


come out of Her... be ye separate

i am separate from the lies of Babylon, i am not at peace with Babylonians.

i'm talking spiritual separation, the sword will be manifest whether i like it or not.

and i love those enemies by remaining faithful to the Word, not by compromising with the lies of the great whore and her harlot daughters

just want to make it plain yet again that following Christ means being faithful to His word

ALL OF HIS WORD

worm i don't believe we should say peace peace where there is no peace

and if i didn't point that out i would failing to be faithful to God

f

i realise that's not exactly how you were talking in your post but i thought it cloudy enough to warrant clear delineation
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