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Author Topic: Six-Day Creation  (Read 20300 times)

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Robert

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Six-Day Creation
« on: May 28, 2007, 05:29:01 AM »

I am interested in apologetics for Creation. Until recently, I’ve believed in the six, literal-day view, but I’ve found some problems with that. Has anyone got scriptural evidence for day-age understanding? I have accumulated some.
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rocky

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2007, 01:18:54 PM »

Something i always thought was interesting was that it wasnt' till day three that we had the sun to determine days and years, yet there was day 1 and 2 prior to this. 

Gen 1:13  And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

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Ward

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2007, 08:51:43 PM »

Robert:

I don't know that I have "scriptural evidence for day-age understanding."  But...

I have been taught that the Genisis account was not like Revelation in that Moses was never said to have had a vision, but was given (told?) what to write...  Meaning he was not interpretting what he saw and writing it down.

Now, like Rocky points out, "...the sun to determine days and years..." were not created until the 3rd day...  But yet, "nights and days," occurred prior to that.  Even the Earth existed before that, albeit in chaos.

All of that suggested this...  From what perspective were these, "nights and days," determined?  Remember a, "night and day" are different here on the Earth than the moon or any of the unknown number of planets, moons and stars.  Why should we impose upon the words of the Genisis description of, "night and days," the limitations of Earth?  Especially when the listed, "night and days," preexists the Earth's sun?

My understanding is that the Genisis description was given to us.  From God.  From what perspective does God determine, "a night and day?"  Answer: Unknown to man at this time.  Just because the Scriptures speak to man of, earthly "nights and days," does not mean that God is limited to exist within them.  God exists within and without all limitations.  Thus, the Genisis description maybe given from within and without.

I've spent more than a few hours studying and thinking about this subject.  At this point, what I have been given is to accept the correctly translated words of Scripture and do not add to them.  Accept that we are not given the answer to every question, YET.

Personally, I am confounded by people that argue about this and things like the age of the Earth and even Darwinism.  Now admittedly I don't know the details of Darwin's theories and don't care to spend time studying them, but...  My guess is that Darwin is wrong.  My guess is that the "6 Literal Days" for creation is wrong.  Man and dinosaurs existing together is wrong.  Blah... Blah... Blah...  Is it important? NOPE! 

Well, those are one person's thoughts...  I'd be more than happy to hear what others think.  If I am wrong, then maybe one of you is the one that God will use to lead me to the truth. ;)

\/\/ard
« Last Edit: May 28, 2007, 08:54:51 PM by Ward »
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skydreamers

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2007, 10:43:30 PM »

This is also something interesting which Ray points out:

Genesis 2:4 KJV
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Here God expresses creating the earth and the heavens in "a" day (singular).  Never saw this before until I heard Ray point it out in one of his audios (I think in the first one of the latest from the Nashville conference).

Very interesting indeed.

Peace,
Diana
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andrevan

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2007, 01:00:12 AM »

I am undecided on the length of creation days. i believe it is 6 days as the Scriptures state, but the actual hours or length is still unclear.

Adam was created on day 6 along with all the land dwelling animals, then dinosaurs would have been created and dwelt before Adam.

Adam was the LAST creature to be created, AFTER the land animals. The dinosaurs and many other creatures no longer with us would have gone extinct after the Flood, due to the huge changes in the earth and the climate. Their fossils are still being uncovered today in the sedimentary layers laid down during and after the Flood. The Scriptures contain real history.
Do we think that dinosaurs were exempted from going onto the Ark? Secular thinking has convinced most of us that dinosaurs and man could not have lived together, do we live together today with wild beasts, not really. What about all the legends of "dragons", they could be about dinosaurs. The term "dinosaur" was only coined in the 1800's, there was no word "dinosaur" before that, but "dragon" was used.

I do not believe man was "primitive" as secular thinking goes, but was always intelligent and to a degree civilised, except for perhaps immediately after the Flood when cities had to be rebuilt.

Adam lived into his late 900's, if the 6th day was thousands of years old, this doesn't seem to fit with his age being only 900-odd years. He was created on the 6th "day" which came to AN END. He lived roughly the same length as others in his generation and after who were born AFTER the creation was complete, so how could the 6th day be thousands of years as some insist?

I read in Usher's Annals of the World that "evening and morning" for the Hebrews also referred to the colder months (evening) and warmer months (morning) of a year. Perhaps the days were years in length.

Possibly Adam did not have to name the entire species of land animals, but the ones in proximity to him making it possible to do so in a short time.

Many Christians have been hoodwinked by secular origins beliefs into believing that everything is very very old, yet we have gravitic time dilation, a theory that fits a short creation time frame with stars that a billions of light years away.

So there are many things to take into account when looking into this, I've thrown some of my own thoughts into the mix here, but there are many other things to look into as well, eg: carbon dating methods, rates of decay of radio isotopes, radiohalos, etc.

Peace to you. :)
Andrevan.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 01:10:41 AM by andrevan »
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Robert

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2007, 04:17:44 AM »

There have been some good thoughts on this coming through, thanks particularly to Andrevan and I generally agree with them all. I have for many years gone along with the short account for creation, although it simply does not fit with fossil records, quite apart from evolution theory. When I say day-age, I mean that the creation days as a specified length of time, as opposed to a 24-hour day as we know it.
I am amazed to find that the push for belief in six literal day creationism has its roots with the SDA church, who view the Genesis literal account for believing in seventh-day Sabbath. 

Even geological records reveal man is a relative new-comer to the world, and post-dates alleged relatives by a un-answerable distance. On this same subject, who believes the food was literally world-wide, i.e., it also covered Australia?
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Michael

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2007, 05:40:15 AM »

I've noticed a few good points here. But we should know that God has declared the end from the beginning(Isa 46:10). When did God say what day it IS? Has the seventh already come and gone? or are we still IN the sixth day? Like as in between the sixth and the seventh trump. I think it is "like" a blueprint for the creation. First, how long is each day? Diana definitely hit on it.
2Pe 3:8  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The word thousand in this verse is plural in the Greek texts(Textus Receptus) both times. So actually it is thousands of years, not a thousand. Notice the Gen 1:27! I think that this is actually a parable and I can even see the salvation for all in this verse. The king James says this:
"Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
But has God fully creatED man or is God creatING man in His image. IN HIS IMAGE! If we have already been created in God's image then why do we still sin? God cannot sin. The Concordant Version says:
"And creating is the Alueim humanity in His image. In the image of Alueim He creates it. Male and female He creates them."
PLEASE notice in the first chapter when it says at the end of the verses..."and it was so". Pay attention to the words! :) Here is the Strong's definition of the Hebrew word so(H3651):
 kane
From H3559; properly set upright; hence (figuratively as adjective) just; but usually (as adverb or conjugation) rightly or so (in various applications to manner, time and relation; often with other particles): -  + after that (this, -ward, -wards), as . . . as, + [for-] asmuch as yet, + be (for which) cause, + following, howbeit, in (the) like (manner, -wise), X the more, right, (even) so, state, straightway, such (thing), surely, + there (where) -fore, this, thus, true, well, X you.
It did NOT say at the end of the verse there "and it was SO". My point I'm trying to make is that God is still creating mankind in His image and that it is not completed, set, just, rightly, or so yet. I think that this word is definitely worthy of notice. I hope I may have given some insight on this here, Lord willing.  ;D

Grace, Peace, and Mercy,
Michael
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andrevan

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2007, 07:15:07 AM »

This is also something interesting which Ray points out:

Genesis 2:4 KJV
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Here God expresses creating the earth and the heavens in "a" day (singular).  Never saw this before until I heard Ray point it out in one of his audios (I think in the first one of the latest from the Nashville conference).

Very interesting indeed.

Peace,
Diana

I'm not convinced that this Scripture refers to days being ages or very long periods of time. In the day that our forefathers pioneered the west: By this we understand that they pioneered the west over many years. It is referring to the time when it was done. To me this does not turn a "day" into "a long period of time". In the the same way, in the day the Lord made the heavens and earth refers to the 6 days it was done, in the same as way as the many years the pioneering of the west was done.

Let's say that a new continent was conquered in 200 years, now "in the day our forefathers conquered the new continent" does not change the fact that it was conquered in 200 actual years and not one day, and not 200 ages.

Adam and Eve were real people, or am I in error here? We have a written history of them and their descendants, very possibly recorded by them and handed down through the generations to Moses. They were not a bunch of halfwits banging rocks together to make fire, I think we can all agree on that.

We have Scriptures that tell us God created in 6 days (yom), but few seem to want to believe it, all things are possible with God, I'm sure He could have created everything in 6 seconds!

There was no death before Adam and Eve sinned, because the wages of sin IS death, physical and spiritual. They eventually died, but not on day 6. I cannot see how thousands of years could have gone by before sin entered the world, as Adam was dead before he reached 1000 years and day six came to an end.

Mankind existed at the beginning of creation, Christ confirms this when He says that from the beginning, God made them male and female, speaking about divorce and marriage.

(As a side:
The majority of earth dating methods are made by secular scientists who have a predetermined bias towards the evolutionary time frame, and is nothing but speculation and "cleaning" of data. Not all the evidence points to billions of years.)

So we may make a comparison to us now being in the "6th day", but we have to consider that Adam and Eve were real people, as are the rest of their descendants, us  :).

Just a few more thoughts of mine on this subject.

Peace to you.
Andrevan.
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andrevan

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2007, 07:44:07 AM »

There have been some good thoughts on this coming through, thanks particularly to Andrevan and I generally agree with them all. I have for many years gone along with the short account for creation, although it simply does not fit with fossil records, quite apart from evolution theory. When I say day-age, I mean that the creation days as a specified length of time, as opposed to a 24-hour day as we know it.
I am amazed to find that the push for belief in six literal day creationism has its roots with the SDA church, who view the Genesis literal account for believing in seventh-day Sabbath. 

Even geological records reveal man is a relative new-comer to the world, and post-dates alleged relatives by a un-answerable distance. On this same subject, who believes the food was literally world-wide, i.e., it also covered Australia?


You mention the fossils and that a short creation time frame does not fit. We must take into consideration how fossils are formed in the vast majority of cases: rapid burial by water and sediment.

When a fish dies in your fish tank, does it float or sink, they genrally float, they tend to sink after other fish have had a good chew on them, but they decompose away. Fossils are not formed slowly and gradually, the organism must be buried quickly in water and sediment otherwise it just decomposes away. The majority of the fossil record was laid down over a short period of time. Imagine the power of the receding waters as the dry land appeared after the Flood: the Grand Canyon could have been formed by these powerful receding waters that COVERED the entire earth, massive powerful erosion over a short period of time, not over millions of years.

It all depends on your perspective: biblical history or secular history. :)

Quote
On this same subject, who believes the food was literally world-wide, i.e., it also covered Australia?

Do you mean "the flood was worldwide"? If so, yes it was worldwide: Gen 7:19  And the waters have been very very mighty on the earth, and covered are all the high mountains which are under the whole heavens;
Gen 7:20  fifteen cubits upwards have the waters become mighty, and the mountains are covered;

Gen 7:21  and expire doth all flesh that is moving on the earth, among fowl, and among cattle, and among beasts, and among all the teeming things which are teeming on the earth, and all mankind;
Gen 7:22  all in whose nostrils is breath of a living spirit--of all that is in the dry land--have died.


Peace to you. :)
Andrevan.
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CDJ

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2007, 09:41:04 AM »

Hi all,

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version) "...And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever..."

Same day and night as Genesis?

Revelation 22:5 (King James Version) "...And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever..."

Maybe the sun on Day 4 wasn't needed before, if reading the above verse...

This might help...

Emails to Ray - Days
Emails to Ray - Ages

Walk strong :-)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:45:02 AM by CDJ »
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YellowStone

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2007, 11:24:57 AM »

Hi All :)

This is a great discussion, and reminds me of the time when the movie "Jurrasic Park" was first released and how the churches tried to explain how Moses handled the dinasours.

From a purely analytical view point, there are many ways to look at this subject. :)

I think Michael asked the million dollar question: "What day is it today?"

Seeing how we have no point of reference to this outside of our own perspective, we can safely assume that that a day in the life of God is not measured by the time it takes the Earth to revolve on it's axis,  ;D

This was also touched on by someone, for it was not until day 3 that the Earth was given light. God in his wisdom, created a universe to a Physicists delight, time (relative to our earthly measure) can be measured by the distance that light travels in a given amount of time. Light or the rays thereof change color depending on their distance they are from the viewer.

For even light as FAST as it is, is ridiculously slow as a measurement of distance of known space. Light only takes 8 minutes and 18 seconds to travel the 93,000,000 miles from the Sun to the Earth; however, any real light measurement is measured in the distance that light travels in a year.

But how far exactly is a light-year? Light travels 186,000 miles per second. There are 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, and 365 days in a year. Multiply these together to get 31,500,000 seconds in a year. Multiply that times 186,000 miles per second and you get 5,850,000,000,000 miles  (from:DiscoverySchool)

That's aproximately 5.8 trillion miles in a year. Now, scientists have discovered galaxies that are around 10+ billion light years away. The simple fact is that if we can see that light from this galaxy today, we are looking at what happened around 10 billion years ago.

So with all this taken into account, it would seem absurb to restrict God to our timeline, because his creation itself, teachs us differently. And so it should :)

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

What is clearly seen, is that we have absolutely no idea what God is capable of. :) It would be easeir to ask what God cannot achieve, which is of course NOTHING! :)

I hope this helps :)

Love to all,

Darren
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 11:35:30 AM by YellowStone »
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mari_et_pere

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2007, 01:36:06 PM »

This is a fascinating debate. I've thought about this for decades now LOL. My conclusion?

We'll never be done questioning it. 100 people could post 5 times a day and we still wouldn't have any credible evidence. I think there's a powerful lesson in it though. God is awesome, and we can't begin to determine His ways. We can't fathom how He would have pulled off something like creation, wether in 6 days or 600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years. Either which way, He is responsible for all that has been created or destroyed, and that's super amazing.

Personally I don't believe in 6 literal, human-made calendar days. In fact that would be quite silly seeing how different cultures have devised differing calendars. If we debate this enough, it will grow into the chicken and egg debate.

Did He create a million animals or just 2 of each? He only made 2 humans.

When He created the stars, did he wait the 10 billion years that Darren spoke of, or did He create it so that the light was already reaching the earth?

When He created the mountain streams, were the rocks already smooth and eroded, or did it take time for that?

My mind wraps around not how many "days" creation took, but HOW it happened. Did He allow things to evolve, (or de-evolve) or snap His fingers and make it done right now? When He said, "Let there be *** or ****", did it happen suddenly, or was it just STARTED suddenly, then take time to become what it is?

Just a couple thoughts.

Matt

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andrevan

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2007, 08:10:20 PM »

To go back to what Robert originally asked, I think there may be a few Scriptures that could point to a Genesis "day" being and "age", but not directly. I'm not going to rule out any options.

Michael made a good point about God creatiNG mankind into His image. I think we all agree with Michael and Ray on this being the correct way it should be translated, it makes Scriptural sense.

Perhaps we are still in the 6th day as Michael points to, and when God "rests" on the 7th day, is when God is All in All, because His plan will have been accomplished.

We still need to take into consideration the ORDER in which God created everything, the real history of Genesis, the Flood of Noah, what effect that massive deluge would have on the landscape of the earth, etc.

Jurassic Park is fiction, not fact. I don't see a problem with dinosaurs being around with our ancestors. We don't expect to be taken out by lions while we go about our business, unless of course we wander around in the African bush looking for trouble ;). T Rex was one of a few meat eating dino's, and I can't see them plotting together in gangs to invade towns and cities eating humans ;D. Also they may not have been in all parts of the world either.

Just a few more points to ponder :).
Andrevan.
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Robert

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2007, 05:37:04 AM »

Just a few further thoughts then: God said to Adam “for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Given that ‘A day to the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day’ – that was correct, no-one has lived more than 1000 years, every sinner has died ‘in’ a day, even Methuselah.
As far as what ‘day’ we are in, we are in God’s seventh day, because God has finished creation. All of creation is of course being sustained by God, but remember that Christ said to His creation to procreate ‘after their kind’ as with all other living things. No living things are created new.
I think it would be fair to say that Christ created great abundance of plants, birds and animals. He created a sustainable ecosystem. As well as this, on the ‘day’ Christ and the Father created Adam, He brought all the animals to him for naming. Adam would have been busy if it was a day of 24 hours, given that there are 8000 species of spider alone.
As far as death goes, I don’t believe it does any violence to scripture to assume that created beasts, plants, insects and micro-organisms had a life-span, and then died, before Adam sinned.
This is getting to my question about the world-wide food. It is easy to assume that Christ had put animals and plants and ecosystems all over the world. Given the flood as world-wide, ALL the plants and animals, apart from those in the sea, would have died, and the earth would have been a giant desert, therefore Noah would have faced a world with much less animals and plants than the world Adam was created in. This has always been the problem with this version.
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andrevan

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2007, 09:04:35 AM »

Hi Robert.

Check this out:

"And the man calleth names to all the cattle, and to fowl of the heavens, and to every beast of the field; and to man hath not been found an helper -- as his counterpart." Gen 2:20

This is all Adam had to name, not insects (or sea creatures), etc.

You made some good points, especially when you say
Quote
As far as death goes, I don’t believe it does any violence to scripture to assume that created beasts, plants, insects and micro-organisms had a life-span, and then died, before Adam sinned.
I'm inclined to agree with you on this point.

Plants and especially seeds can survive in water for some time.

"and expire doth all flesh that is moving on the earth, among fowl, and among cattle, and among beasts, and among all the teeming things which are teeming on the earth, and all mankind;
all in whose nostrils [is] breath of a living spirit -- of all that [is] in the dry land -- have died."
Gen 7:21-22

Also, Noah and his family would have taken food on board for themselves and the animals, and quite possibly, Noah being an intelligent man, would have taken seeds for growing crops after coming off the ark, and possibly enough food to for when they came off the ark. Check out www.worldwideflood.com and http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3000/ for more info.

The post Flood world would have indeed been a very different place, ecologically and geologically, many varieties of creatures could have been lost, but speciation would have started again in the years after the Flood, as well as variation in creatures.

Another thought, if the Flood was only local, then God lied to Noah and us when He promised to never again destroy the world by water, by giving us a sign of His covenant. We have had thousands of local floods since then. If the Flood was local then God broke His promise to never again send a local flood.

God has not finished creating us into His image and likeness yet, so I'm not sure that we're in the 7th Day, because God is still creating mankind. Yes, all other life has been created past tense, because they are not being created into God's image, only Mankind. His work is not yet finished in this regard.

Darren wrote:
Quote
So with all this taken into account, it would seem absurb to restrict God to our timeline, because his creation itself, teachs us differently.
While I can understand this, we need to consider the Word of God first and then our interpretation of the creation second. I think some refer to this as "general revelation", things relating to the natural world. General revelation should never have precedence over the Scriptures.
With a bit of research I've found that science and the Scriptures actually fit together rather well, way better than the unscientific theory of evolution, it just takes time to go through it all.

Peace to you all.
Andrevan.
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skydreamers

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2007, 03:25:33 PM »

Hi All,

What about this?

Matthew 12:36
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

I find it hard to imagine that this is speaking of a literal day...how on earth will every man give account for every idle word in 24 hours????

Genesis 2:17
17  but you shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Isn't humanity continuing to eat of this tree (spiritually) every day until the close of the ages??

Perhaps there is a literal application as well as a spiritual application to the word "day".  I find it interesting to seek out the spiritual application of the six days of creation. 

Andrevan,

I think I'm with you in seeing this:

Quote
God has not finished creating us into His image and likeness yet, so I'm not sure that we're in the 7th Day, because God is still creating mankind. Yes, all other life has been created past tense, because they are not being created into God's image, only Mankind. His work is not yet finished in this regard.

I wonder even if most of humanity is still in the 5th day spiritually speaking:

Genesis 1:25
25  And God made the beasts of the earth ...

What is man but a beast....it isn't until we recognize the beast within us that God begins to conform us into His image....I see the Elect as being in the sixth day, as it is this group that God is training to have:

Genesis 1:26
...dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.


In the next age, the Elect will truly have this dominion over the fish of the sea (all the rest of humanity...the nations), the fowl of the heavens (evil spirits...do you not know that you shall judge angels?), over the cattle (the beast within), over all the earth (many called...Christians) and over all the creepers creeping on the earth (okay, I haven't figured out what this one could be ;)...anyone?)

I know many believe that the 7th day will be the millennium period/age, but I'm wondering if the millennium age is actually the 6th day and the 7th day is the end when Jesus gives back the kingdom to the Father, and God is all in all, and we shall all have perfect rest.

This may not be exactly what this thread is about, but I felt compelled to add this, just to give an alternative perspective as to how the 6 days could be a spiritual parable.

Of course, that doesn't rule out at all some literal application...

May God open our eyes on the matter, if it be in His will, :)
Peace,
Diana
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Robert

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2007, 06:18:37 AM »

Thanks for your thoughts on that, and as I said, I’m still checking it out. I will reply however to the answer about God’s judgement and His promise never to flood the earth again: The food DID destroy ALL human life. Geological history, as well as the Biblical account implies that greater Mesopotamia was indeed the cradle of ALL human existence and civilisation. That type of judgement will not happen again. This answer though is from proponents of ‘old earth’ creationism, and is not from my beliefs as yet.
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andrevan

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2007, 06:13:27 AM »

Thanks for your thoughts on that, and as I said, I’m still checking it out. I will reply however to the answer about God’s judgement and His promise never to flood the earth again: The food DID destroy ALL human life. Geological history, as well as the Biblical account implies that greater Mesopotamia was indeed the cradle of ALL human existence and civilisation. That type of judgement will not happen again. This answer though is from proponents of ‘old earth’ creationism, and is not from my beliefs as yet.

So Noah spent many years (+-100?) building a huge ark to house 2 of every kind of creature with the breath of life and creeping things to save them all from a local flood? They floated around in a local flood for a year? Sounds ridiculous to me, and smacks of unbelief.

Why did they not just move somewhere else, away from the "cradle of civilisation"? People could have fled to higher ground or away from this local flood.
Geological history shows fossils all over the earth and sedimentary layers all over the earth formed by a water catastrophe.
Many scientists believe there was a massive planetary flood on Mars (where there is no water), but refuse to believe it happened on earth (where there is plenty of water).

After what Ray spoke about at the conference, I'm currently thinking that we are still in the sixth day, because 'it is not yet so'.

Ray also mentioned the "whales":

From Strong's:
tannîyn  tannîym
tan-neen', tan-neem'
(The second form used in Eze_29:3); intensive from the same as H8565; a marine or land monster, that is, sea serpent or jackal: - dragon, sea-monster, serpent, whale."


From Brown-Driver-Briggs:
tannîyn  /  tannîym
BDB Definition:
1) dragon, serpent, sea monster
1a) dragon or dinosaur
1b) sea or river monster
1c) serpent, venomous snake


Water dwelling dinosaurs perhaps?

Peace to you.
Andrevan.
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jerreye

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2007, 07:44:27 AM »

The context of Genesis 1:21 seems to suggest that God created the great SEA-creatures (as opposed to great LAND-creatures). Land animals apparently were not created until Day 6 as far as I can see. Interestingly, if you look at the root of the Hebrew word  "tan-neen" ("whales" in the KJ), Strong's suggests that it could be speaking of the plesiosaurus (sea-dinosaur). BUT, if God mentions that He created great sea based dinosaurs on Day 5, then why no mention of great LAND-BASED dinosaurs on Day 6? Perhaps God created ALL sea and land based dinosaurs on Day 5? Seems kind of strange to create ALL dinosaurs on Day 5, then create all OTHER land-based animals on Day 6 (??) Seems out of place, doesn't it?

Speaking of the plesiosaurus, some people have suggested that the legendary "OGOPOGO" creature supposedly swimming in the Okanogan Lake (from my home Province of BC, Canada) is a plesiosaurus that perhaps survived the mass extinction! lol

As for Ray's comments on "Creating man in His image..."
Ray did mention that it does not say, "and it was so", concerning making man in His image. He also stated that it doesn't say concerning God making man in His image that, "it was good".

But look at Gen 1:26-31...

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat:
AND IT WAS SO.

But, WHAT was SO? How can it NOT be EVERTHING mentioned from verse 26-30, which includes making man in His image??


Now, look at the next verse concerning EVERYTHING God created:

Gen 1:31  And God saw EVERYTHING (including making Man in His image) that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Comments???

Ray also states that because the present-future-tense is used, as in, "God is MAKING man in His image", proves that it wasn't a completed act, as in "God MADE man in His image". But, how about everthing else God made? The present-future-tense is used ALSO concerning Him creating the vegetation, animals and virtually everything else....He is MAKING the animals and He is MAKING the herbs etc etc...

Perhaps I missed something here (it does happen...a lot!)?  ;D


« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 08:13:47 AM by jerreye »
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Kat

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Re: Six-Day Creation
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2007, 11:59:37 AM »


Hi jerreye,

I will see if I can help with your questions;

Quote
But, WHAT was SO? How can it NOT be EVERTHING mentioned from verse 26-30, which includes making man in His image??

If you look back when God created the different things, you will notice that immediately after their creation said, "and it is so."

Gen 1:7  Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

Gen 1:9  Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.

Gen 1:11  Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.

Gen 1:15  and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.

Gen 1:24  Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind"; and it was so.

Now when you come to the creation of man, you will notice when He had finished this part of His creation, He did not end it with the statement, "and it is so." 

Gen 1:26  Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27  So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Gen 1:28  Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

But in verses 29-30, He went on to speak on what He had given them for food and that is when God said, "and it is so."

Gen 1:29  And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
Gen 1:30  Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so.

Gen 1:31  Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.

And of course God overlooking His whole creation and said, "indeed it was very good."  Because this creation is His plan to bring all mankind into the family of God.  And though it was just the beginning, He knows the end from the beginning.

Isa 46:9  remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
v. 10  declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'

Quote
Ray also states that because the present-future-tense is used, as in, "God is MAKING man in His image", proves that it wasn't a completed act, as in "God MADE man in His image". But, how about everthing else God made? The present-future-tense is used ALSO concerning Him creating the vegetation, animals and virtually everything else....He is MAKING the animals and He is MAKING the herbs etc etc...

You will notice that God created the creatures of the earth as a completed living thing, able to substain life and reproduce after it's on kind.

Gen 1:21  So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds,

Gen 1:25  And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind.

God also made man complete, in that he was able to substain life and reproduce.

Gen 1:26  "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.  Let them have dominion..."

But in the next verse God goes on to state He is in the process of creating man into "His image."  But after this verse there is no, "and it was so."

Gen 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them. (CLV)

This is the way that I understand these verses, I hope it helped  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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