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WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER? . Nashville Conf 07

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Kat:
                                                                                       page 2 'Footsteps'

ĎWell surely some of the sins.Ď None. ĎBut Iím not as good as you are Ray.í None, there is no condemnation in you. This idea that God beats you to death with His wrath and anger and indignation until the day you die, is Satanic heresy. ďÖno condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.Ē NONE!  

Rom 8:4  Öwho walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

ĎOh Ray, now you blew it, you see I still do walk after the flesh sometimes.í But where do you want to walk? ĎWell I want to walk after the spirit.í Well, youíre back in.

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
v. 3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:  
v. 4  that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
v. 5  For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh;

Now if you find yourself minding the things of the flesh, you need to pray to God and cry out to help you and save you from that situation. You say this is not me, God, I donít want to go here. I donít want to do this, but my flesh is pulling me and I war, I need help, I need reinforcements. You cry out to God and that humbles you. Because you see that you canít do it. If you could do it, then you would become self sufficient, and you wouldnít need God. He will always Make you dependant on Him.

Jesus always prayed. Why? Heís the Son of God! What did He need to pray for? Because He knew, if the Father didnít do it, then it wouldnít be done. Itís as simple as that.  

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be Spiritually minded is life and peace:
v. 7  because the carnal is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:Ē
v.8  ďand they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So those that are in the flesh, they can not please God.

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
v. 10  And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
v. 11  But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall also quicken(or bring to life) your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.
v. 18  For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
v. 21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.

This is the Word of God. He put us in these bodies that want to sin and follow after lustful, stupid, sensual, fun, fuzzy things. But if in your heart and mind you donít want that anymore, not that you donít want, but you donít want to want it. So you cry out to God and say, ĎI donít want to want it.í Then God is your Father, Heíll come to your rescue. Just like any Father would come to any childís rescue, when he cries out to him.

Rom 8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not how to pray as we oughtÖ

Or as according to what must be, you know. What is absolutely what is Godís plan, that can not be deviated from. We donít always know what that is. But Godís spirit helps us to pray, so we will pray in accordance with what needs to be Godís plan and Godís will/purpose fulfilled in us.  

Rom 8:27  and He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
v. 28  And we know that all things work together for the good to them that love God,  to them that are called according to His purpose.

In verse 28 it should read God works all things together.

Rom 8:30  Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, the He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

Now we are coming back to the same thing from verse one.

Rom 8:31  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
 
Well, is God for us? Well yea, Heís for those Heís calling according to His purpose and plan. But, I donít know if everyone sitting in here is in that category. But Iíll tell you what, if you are not in that category, youíre probably not to concerned about it. Thatís what I tell everybody.  

I get these emails all the time, about once every week or 10 days, it seems like. I donít send these all to the forum, because it gets so redundant. People think they have commented the unpardonable sin and it is woe-is-me. I get this, Ďreally Ray I think I did, I mean I didnít want to, but I think I did.í ĎI think I blasphemed the Holy Spirit.í I say, if youíre worried about it, then you didnít. I can tell you with the authority of Jesus Christ, that if you are worried about it, you didnít. Because if you did, you wouldnít be worried about it. People that blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God are not worried about it, not at all.
 
I mean with all my heart and being, I said to my brother. I said Satan has got you by the throat. He said, 'ha ha ha, I donít think so.' I mean my heart just went, phoom. When you are nonchalant, youíre probably not where you should be. If you are concerned, ĎI donít know if Iím doing everything I should be or I need to do.í  ĎI want to please God.í If you are in that attitude, well then for sure you have not blasphemed the Holy Spirit of God! You would not have that attitude of concern and wanting to please God, if you were blaspheming the spirit of God. So get that out of your head. If you are concerned for what God thinks of you and whether you are living right, if you are concern about that, then get it out of your head, you have not commented the unpardonable sin. That can only be rectified in judgment. You have not. Your not there, so donít worry about that. It doesnít mean you donít have sin. It doesnít mean you donít have things that need to be straightened up. But for sure you did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God.  

Rom 8:31  ÖIf God is for us, who is against us?
v. 33  Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect?

This idea that God is pouring out His wrath upon us, because Heís angry at us. NO! No, God is not angry with those He is calling to be His sons and daughters. His anger is towards those who hate God and despise His Word, and He is going to bring severe judgment upon. He doesnít hate or is angry with His elect! So get that out of your head. I hear, Ďwell, I think God is not very pleased with me.í Get it out of your head.

Rom 8:32  He that spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not also with Him freely give us all things?
v. 33  Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth;
v. 34  who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Christ is like a High Priest that makes intercession for us, because He lived in the flesh.
He knows exactly how it is and He makes intercession for us.

Rom 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation (no), or anguish(no), or persecution(no), or famine(no), or nakedness(no), or peril(no), or sword(no)?
v. 36  ďEven as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.Ē
v. 37  Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.
v. 38  ďFor I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
v. 39  nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.Ē

Not one, itís the love of God in Jesus to and for us. So donít be condemning yourself. Youíre on your way to living in the Kingís house and the Kingís palace. You know youíre on your road to royalty, heavenly royalty and God is called you to that. So donít feel, Ďoh woe-is-me, Iím not up to it, Iím not pleasing God, Iím not perfect.í None of us do it right all the time. But where is your heart? What do you do most of the time? Do you talk to God?  Are you always on top of your game, so to speak? What do you think about, all day long? As a man thinkest, so is he. You are what you think about. You think about good things, you become a good person. You think about ways to love your wife, husband, children or whatever, then you do those things for your brothers, sisters, fellowman, people at work, whatever.
  
You donít need to go overboard and pretend to be this super Christian. Where it almost becomes obscene. Where everybody says look how phony he is. Make it real! You can do the right thing behind the scenes. So many people wonít even recognize that youíre always doing the right thing, because it is not something you have to parade. You donít have to parade it or wave a banner. Just do the right thing. Do it because Godís watching, not because people or watching.

Kat:
                                                                                 
This is the end of audio 1 and audio 2.

You may recognize this from our site, the Sombrero galaxy.

Now I want to expand our minds a little bit. If God made us, He also made the universe. This is a direct parallel, it's not like if He made us, then something or somebody else made the universe. No, He made it all. If we really could begin to think in larger terms about God. You got to get this junk out of your head. God is not an old man who sits on a throne, like Abraham Lincoln in the Lincoln Memorial. That is not God. God does not sit on a throne, that's a symbol of power and sovereignty. He does not sit because He is tired of standing. You have got to get all physical concepts out of your head about God. 
But that doesnít mean that what He has made, doesnít have some spiritual counter parts. Weíll just talk a little bit about some of these things today, to spark your interest a little bit. But this stuff is awesome. 

This galaxy right here, looks like this when you get farther away. It looks like this one down here, see that little one, you canít see it in the back of the room. 

How big is that? When you step back in space, itís a little tiny speck. If you get back a little farther, you canít even see the speck. So letís say we backed up a few light years away and now itís only this big. How long would it take you to go, all the way from this side to that side? Alright if you were to travel in a spaceship at 700 million miles an hour, it would take 100,000 years.

You could probably put in one star (because our star is called a yellow dwarf) a 1000 of our sun into some stars. Our sun is thousands of times bigger than the earth. How many of you have ever walked around the earth? Even that earth, to us, is pretty big. Itís a long walk from here to Oregon, right Joe. You are not going to make that walk in one pair of shoes.
 
God made that galaxy and a billion more, that we know of. This farthest light, they say is about 15 billion light years away, that is traveling 700 million miles an hour, for 15 billion years. WHAT! What are they talking about? These are awesome figures. How much is that compared to space. They say space has no end. How can it not have an end?! Everything has a beginning and end. How can it not have an end?  How can something go on forever? You canít conceive of that, the human brain bulks at it, you just canít. Itís the sort of thing you can only think of about 5, 6 or 7 seconds, then you stop. Because your brain shuts down, you canít conceive of it. You canít conceive of eternity. 

Like Iíve said, thereís not a Christian thatís meditated, on being tortured in hell, for more than 6 seconds. If anybody tells me they have meditated on being actually tortured in hell for a minute, Iíll call him a liar to his face. Iím not saying you didnít think about the subject of hell for a minute or hours or days or even most of your life. Iím talking about the eternity of being tortured endlessly, torturedÖ torturedÖ tortured, never ever ending for billions and trillions of years. They thought about that for 60 seconds? No way. Your brain shuts down. So you got to get this junk out of your head. 

Now we are going to talk about the Creator of this galaxy, the Milky Way and a billion more. It wasnít an old man stroking His beard, wondering where it all went wrong.

They call it that, because if you're out there, on a clear night, on a mountain top in Idaho or someplace, it looks like that, milky, it has just millions of stars. Okay, it the same thing here. If you traveled from this side of the galaxy to here, at 700 million miles an hour it would take you 100,000 years. These things are enormous. 

Iím going to open up this possibility, Iím not going to start teaching evolution here, but I felt for most of my adult life. That the 6 creation days, were not 24 hour days. I know I left it that way on my site, because I didnít want to get into logger heads with some people, since I could not absolutely prove it. I just said alright Iíll just go along with 6 days. If the Bible says 6 days, itís 6 days. I didnít tell them how long I thought those 6 days were.
 
They feel that evening and morning, sun rise to sun set, Ďthatís a 24 hour day, Ray, how hard can it get?í But it didnít say sun rise and sun set. It said it came to be morning and it came to be evening, and then it says, second day, third day, forth day, but it doesnĎt start off that way. What did it mean, when it says it came to be evening and it came to be morning, day one, then it was the second, the third and the forth. What did it mean it Ďcameí to evening and it Ďcameí to be morning? Well I have some ideas about that. But Iím not going to talk about that today. But it has to do with light and darkness, but not a 24 hour day. 

Iím trying to study a little bit on (oh, I donít even want to use the terms, because people will say, Rayís starting to study astrophysics) but Iíll say it like this, Iím reading material written by astrophysics, how about that. Iím studying morphology, a little bit and into quantum mechanics.

Here is a problem that I see, scientists do not want to acknowledge anything religious, theological, scriptural, or Biblical, at all. The Theologians, religions, and Christians pretty much want to reject anything and everything that goes too far scientific for them, okay. Because both sides thinks they are at logger heads, one with the other.
 
The Bible canít be true, with the 6 days being 6 billion years or whatever, it can not be, just can not be. How do they know that? Well because it says, 6 days, so itĎs 6 days. But a lot of things are called a day, you know. I covered this at the Mobile conference. 

I can prove on the second page, that these 6 days can be referred to as a day. We find that in the second chapter, where it says, verse 4 ďThese are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in THE DAY that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.Ē

That was on this side of the page, right, in 6 days, ďwhen they were created.Ē In ďthe dayĒ that they were created, singular day. Itís the same day -- yom, same word translated ďdayĒ in the first chapter. So right here we have 6 days, are called the day, singular. Then we have a thousand years, is like a day, and a day is like a thousand years (2 Peter 3:08).
 
Then we have Acts 17, where it says verse 31 ďBecause He has appointed A DAY in which he will judge the worldÖĒ In 24 hours? No! For the aions, a day. Maybe considerably more than a thousand years. So there is all kinds of uses for the word day in the scripture. Just because it says Ďday oneí doesnít mean a 24 hour day. That is not proof in and by itself. We know that virtually everything in the Bible is symbolic anyway. People say, Ďno itís literal.í
 
I mean people think there was a literal tree, like an apple tree and when you ate it, your brain understood good and evil from the apple. Itís a symbol, itís all symbolism. Iím not saying there is nothing literal, but even in the literal, there is a spiritual teaching. Someday we are going to have to learn to believe the scripture. Now Iíve been saying this for years. I say you donít believe the scriptures, they say, íyes I believe,í I say no you donít. I say to them, I can show you scriptures and you wonít believe them, and I do. ĎWell how come you donít believe in hell,í because itís not a scripture. Iím not talking about Bible verses, IĎm talking about scripture. If the Bible were the absolute inerrant word of God, why do they have 20-30 different translations or even 400-500, why.

People have virtually no concept of translating. They think well what is the word in Hebrew and what is the word in English. There are no word-for-word translations. Sometimes five words is translated into one, sometimes one word has to be translated into five. There is no other way to do it. Languages do not translate word for word, I showed that in my hell paper, a couple of years ago. I ask my wife, if I say Ďwhat you donít know wonít hurt you,í do you have saying like that in German? She said, yes, but it would translate to Ďwhat you donít know wonít make you hot.í In other words, it doesnít make you angry, you canít get angry about something you donít know about. But it is the same idea.

So science doesnít want to acknowledge religion and religion doesnít want to acknowledge science. Iím saying whichever is true, either one, Iím going to acknowledge both. Now Iím seeing that this earth is more than 6000 years old, Iím seeing that. I mentioned in Mobile, that in Greenland they have gone down 3 kilometer and taken an ice core sample. Ice core samples leave rings or layers, just like the rings of trees. Every summer and winter produces like a ring of a tree, a gradation, a layer. In 3 kilometers they have gone back over 100,000 years. Now are we to think that some years there were 2 rings or 3 made, maybe they went through 3 or 4 where there were no rings made? With trees do some years go by and there are no rings added, maybe 5 years, no rings? Maybe other years you get 3 rings? No. One year one ring. I mean God does not lie. 

Iím reading this Dr. Stroder. Heís got some wacky stuff, but he seemed to be honest. He seems to want, if God spoke it and it line up with science, then letís accept it. I think heís an astrophysics. He said if we canít look at what is and it being based on real science, and say this is a law and carry it forward and backwards and out into the universe. He said then we just might as well fold up our tents and go home. If there are no laws and if everything is so totally relative and there is nothing you can hang your hat on. But itís all just relative according to some relativity of some other relativity. He said we have got to operate from the premise, that gravity is a law. Itís not only a law here, itís a law out there too. He said if we canít go by laws that are consistent throughout the universe. Then forget it, we are at the end of our learning, there is nothing more we are going to learn, because itís hocus pocus from here on. 

So I want to know these things, Iíve always wanted to know these things. Iíve always wanted to know about the dinosaurs. When I first took and interest in the Bible, and the first time I wrote a letter, it may have been a letter to Embassador College, and I wanted to know about the dinosaurs. That was not quite 50 years ago. No one has answered that question for me yet, no one in the world. I have the evolutionist and I have the geologist, the anthropologist and paleontologist and the astrophysics. They all have there theories, and then you have the biblical features and so on. But a lot of them are not even honest. The scientist lie, the theologies lie.
 
There may be a lot of stuff I donít know and there may be stuff Iím wrong about, but Iím not going to lie to you. If Iím wrong Iíll change it. Weíve changed a few things. I still have to straighten out this, did God foreknow everything or ordain everything. Of course they took exception to the word ordained. That God would Ďordainí some dirty old man to fornicate with a child and then cut his head off, was that Ďordainedí of God? Opposed to, that He had a foreknowledge that it would happen. But I did use the word ordain once for everything, and now Iíve got to go back and redo that a little bit. Certainly God foreknows everything, not everything is ordained.
 
Like Paul didnít say ordain men and elders, and ordain bishops, and donít forget to ordain those perverts to fornicate with little children, now come on. Somebody will say, ĎI got Ray cornered now, we got a contradiction.í Let me tell you 95% of my emails I get, out of thousands, 95% deal with one thing only, contradictions. They either think Iím contradicting the Bible or the Bible is contradicting. 95% of it, all about contradictions.

So I want to learn these things and I want to, so you will remember and say ĎI remember back in Nashville, Ray was telling us a little bit about this and a little bit about that.' So weíre not going to throw religion and science away or one or the other. Because there is elements of both, that we need to consider. But I want to also show you, that who do you trust? 

There is a thing on TBN, heís got this Creation Evidence Museum, Dr Carl Baugh. Well he has some things about these footprints, so I wanted to check on him. Heís the one that I think who originally brought out this malikite man, and itís this discovery and the man behind this is Dr Carl Baugh. 

There is this paper researching his doctorate degree, but that man has no degree. He got a doctorate like I got a doctorate. This guy is a phony and has no doctorate degree. The only doctorate degree that he says he has is from a Bible correspondence course, from Jerry Farwell.
 
So I found this in his book, about this malikite man, here shows a man digging bones and these bones are suppose to be in solid sandstone, itís the same strata that runs through Utah and Dakotas. Thatís where they find dinosaurs bones. So in the same rock that you find dinosaurs, they found this skeleton of modern man, and these bones are articulated, that mean they are still joined together and you can actually move them. I said wow, this is amazing stuff.
 
I learned about this in this beautiful little book here, ĎUnlocking The Mysteries Of Creation.í Itís such a pretty book, got pictures and all kinds of stuff. So Iím reading and he exposes the Piltdown hoax. You all heard about the Piltdown man? Well itís a hoax, there never was a Piltdown man, that was half human and half ape or whatever. Total hoax, he exposes that. He shows that they just drummed that whole thing up.
 
Over here he has this evidence of humans buried by the great flood, human skeletons found in dinosaur rock layers. This is the hard sandstone of Utah, where these rock formations are confirmed to be some 140 million year old of sandstone, containing dinosaur bones, not too far away from the famous Dinosaur National Park in Utah. They took these human bones, and sent them off, and no scientists reported back. Because they said scientist were afraid of them and didnít want to say anything, because sure enough here is modern man buried with dinosaurs.
 
I thought wow, I had to call somebody, this is amazing stuff. I never heard of this, modern man buried with dinosaurs, 140 million years ago? So Iím thinking this proves that dinosaurs didnít live 140 million years ago, because they are buried with modern man. This is a modern man, yet it says here, Ďthe perfect modern human jaw.í So this looks absolutely perfect, just like a modern man from New York city, you know, walking down Madison Ave. A perfect human jaw bone and teeth, and they are replaced by turquoise. Itís now solid turquoise, but this is a modern man, wow. How about that, thatís too much to believe, how come this is not world news?
 
So I start studying and checking internet sites on this malikite man. Then thereís this, the University of Nebraska found 2 years later that these bones were only 200 yrs old, maybe only 150. They were buried in the 1800ís. But they said they were buried 50 ft. down, in solid sandstone rock, the same that runs through Dinosaur Park? They said these were modern man?
 
Well, hereís this jaw bone that had turned to solid turquoise. It was a farce! The jawbone, itís stained with copper oxide, itís not solid turquoise. These bones were buried in the 1800ís, theyíre Indian. Well what about the sandstone, itís sandblow! Sandblow is when sand blows into the crevices of rocks and packs and it stays that way for hundreds of years and it gets firm. Now you can chip away at it with your fingernails, because itís not rock, itís really tight packed sand, sandblow. Then I see this picture of this little child, he dug all that sand away with a little shovel, that was suppose to be solid rock.
 
But it said that this one here is different, this one was found years later at a different location. They said this is not the same one dated at 150 years, oh no these are old, these are real old here. So Iím looking at this picture of him with these real old bones, in his plaid shirt. Then I find a picture of the original guy, with the 150 year old bones. Itís the same picture, for crying out loud, same plaid shirt! It the identical photograph, they are suppose to be taken years apart.

Kat:
audio 1-2/page 2

This guyís name is Dennis Peterson, and I call him up. I said to him, what is this, he says Ďyes, itís a remarkable find.í I said, come on these bones are 150 years old, these are late Indian and this is not sandstone, itís sandblow packed sand, rain will wash it away. 'But these were articulated.' Partly petrified a little, I guess, and I said this solid turquoise jaw is only stained, itís copper oxide. He said, Ďyes but did you notice the finger.í It was something that looked like a little stone, it really didnít look like a finger at all, just a round stone, there was a chip off the end and he said Ďthatís where a fingernail was.í I said you got to know that this is a hoax, and he said, Ďhe didnít want to talk about it anymore.Ē I said you know a few pages back you exposed the Piltdown man and now youíre pulling the same thing. He said, Ďwell Iíve got to go now.í I let him know, you are a worse deceiver than those with the Piltdown man. This is trash, and you call this book ĎThe Mystery Of Godís Creation,í youíre trying to uphold Christianity, and pass off this nonsense? He said, íI got to go.í Just where do you find honest people. Itís a beautiful book, but you just canít believe half of whatís in it.

Now here is something good, this Philip Johnson, a law professor, at Berkley wrote ĎDarwin On Trial.í Itís very good, UNTIL you get to where heís talking about religion. So heís got his facts down on evolution, better than anybody Iíve ever read. But then we have original sin and we inherit the corruptible nature and God is one person in 3. God created Adam in His image and they were given this great intelligence, knowledge and perfect innocents and purity and all this written in their hearts. No it wasnít! But if you want to read it, itís very good, I just got this a couple of years ago. He has an eye here, because he talks about the eye.
 
When I first started studying the Bible, 40 years ago, the one thing that struck me about evolution, was the eye. How do you evolve an eye? When did a creature that didnít have an eye, decide he wanted one? Maybe one of his buddies said, 'you know if youíre going to go for the eye thing, go for 2.' But you know they had no mouth either, so he really couldnít talk... and had no brain either. But he said, 'what do you mean 2?'  His buddy said, 'you know dept perception, if youíre going to have eyes, youíre going to need 2 to get this thing called dept perception, itís really an elusion in the brain, itís not real.' That evolved from sea slime? No!

Listen, through mutations only one in a hundred generations, of most animals, produce any kind of mutation. Mutations are usually bad, they are detrimental to the health of the creature. Letís suppose that once in a while you have a mutation that is of some kind of benefit and in this case weíre going to work on an eye. How many mutations would you have to have in a row, through evolution, beneficial to start constructing an eye? Well somewhere around a trillion. That is if you had a trillion consecutive mutations, that were all positive and beneficial, and they were all directed to constructing an eye. What are the chances of that? One in a trillion quardrillion trillion. You see what I mean? Thatís every hundredth generation or whatever. How many billion and trillion and quadrillions generations would it take? It would take millions of times longer than the universe was here.  

Did the human eye evolve? No, it did not. Every time you look at an eye you know there is a God. Not only does the eye see... the eye doesnít see, itís the brain that sees. What? Yea, you need the eyes, but the brain sees through the eyes, the eye doesnít see anything. The eye is dumb. Now you have this eye and you have to connect it to a brain that interprets what all this is. That evolved out of chance? With no intelligence? All you have to know is you have 2 eyes and that is proof positive, there is a God! That is unequivocal proof, thereís a God. You canít even begin to imagine your way around that in evolution, thereís no way... well evolutionist will say, if you got enough time. 

How many trillions of years do you want? Because even that isnít enough time. So yes, there is a God. To make eyes, He must be pretty bright. If He gave us a brain and we can think subjectively HeĎs pretty wise. I mean you keep adding these attributes of what God is and He just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Thatís what I want you to see today, God is bigger than this stupid superstitious junk, that we learn in the protestant religion or the Catholic religion. I donít mean that all theologians are just stupid people, I mean there are intelligent theologians who would give honor to God and so on. They just canít get away from the dumb doctrines and all. They were hood wicked into that stuff and I feel sorry for some of them. Some of them appear to be genuinely sincere, but they are sincerely wrong.

Well we are into a second session now and I have got through the first page and a half, and I have 22 to go. So what else is new.  

ĎReason to Believeí by Dr. Ross on TBN. I called him one day and talked with one of his associates. I said you know your going with all this science and astronomy, physics, quantum Mechanics and all this technical stuff and then you accept the Christian religion like it was the truth of God. Iím talking to this person and I say, youíve got one thing really going for you and then you teach all this paganism. Well they hung up real fast, but they got rude first. I mean they did not want to hear it.  

I read a book once, ĎThe bone Peddlers,í that guy really good, he studied the bones. I read about 6 chapters, and he showed all these bones from the java man and Lucy and all this. He knew it all and had studied every facet of the deconstruction. He proved conclusively that there is no such thing as a modern skeleton or any parts of a modern skeleton that goes back more than maybe 50,000 years for sure, certainly not 2-3 million. He said it was about 50,000 and then they just showed up. They were not here and werenít buried with all the other ancient relics and dinosaurs, then all of the sudden, boom modern man. Where did he come from? He shows they did not come from any of these bones. I said wow, you know this guy has got it, heís proved man is modern. Maybe the earth and dinosaurs are old, but man is modern. So he says, where did they come from? Outer space?! So I called him up. I said, you got this great first 6 chapters and then, aliens from outer space?! I said, where did they come from in outer space? I said alright they didnít evolve out of Africa, no. He said, 'well it had to be Asia, they were transplanted here from outer space.' I said where did you come up with that stuff? You had a good book going. He said, ĎIím cutting wood for the fire place, IĎd like to talk, but Iíve got to go.í

And even this Dr. Schroeder Iím reading now, I really like some of his stuff. I think he is really trying to see the truth of the scripture and science. But heís got this thing of, Ďwell where did everything come from?í God created it from nothing. Now he knows that's not scientific. How do you create something from nothing? Well, God did it, He can do anything. This is what the scripture teaches and we do know what the scripture say about this.

We read in the 11 chapter of Hebrews, and how would the writer of Hebrews 2000 years ago know this?  

Heb 11:1  Now faith is substance of things hoped forÖ

No it's not, itís the "conviction" or Concordance has it "assumption." You assume what God says is correct. You assume it, you donít have proof. If you had proof you wouldnít need faith. Faith is when you believe something that you donít have the absolute proof for. Thatís what faith is.

Heb 11:2  If  the elders of old obtained a good report.
v. 3  By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that things that is seen were not made out of things which do appear (which are visible).

So the things that are seen are not made from things that are visible. Wow how did they know that, they didnít even have microscopes by then. They didnít know that when you got smaller than an atom you didnít have solid anymore, you have energy. You canít see energy, you canít see electricity, and you canít even see the wind. But the Bible knew everything was made of... itís made out of things that do not appear.  

Bishopís Bible says;
Heb 11:3  Through fayth, we vnderstande that the worldes (it two words, wor - des and it really means the man age, a were-wolf is a  man wolf, so wer + des is an man age, it use to be 2 syllable word -worldes, Bishop has it in old English) were ordeined by the word of God, and that thynges whiche are seene, were made of thynges whiche were not seene.

They were made from something werenít they, just not seen. What does the Bible tell us? All is from God, right. All is out of God. You have to believe that! You got to believe the scriptures! As long as you believe the scripture, I donít think you will find any contradictions, anywhere. Now you might think there is 'eternal' scripture contradictions, and I donít want to get into that. You know different numbering of the Israelites, how many there were and some of these type things.  

Now how long ago was this all made? 12,000 years ago or 12 billion years ago? Well if you believe 12 billion, then you donít believe the Bible. Of course if you believe the Bible, then you donít believe itís 12 billion. Youíre at logger heads. Are you really though?

I just want to open up some things here. Maybe Iíll talk on them in the future, IF God gives me the understanding. So far the things I have written on, as I have come to them and I have to know what they mean, God has opened it up to me. If you ask me 5 years ago to explain what Christ meant when He said, if you call your brother a fool you will be in danger of gehenna fire, hell fire it says in the KJ.  You ask me that 5 years ago, Ďwhat does that mean Ray?í I would have said, 'I donít know.'  

Mat 10:28  Donít fear him that can kill the body, but can not kill the soul: but fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in gehenna.

What does that mean? Five years ago I couldnít tell you. But now that I was coming to it in my paper, I said 'God weíre getting close now, You are going to have to tell me.í I was like one installment away from explaining this and I have to know what it means. He showed me, after 40 years I know what it means, and I know that I know what it means. So Iím asking for understanding about some of these other things. Is God going to show me, I donít know. So Iíve seen some things, let me show you a couple of things. Iíll wet your appetite a little bit.

This first page of the Bible here contains so much information, you got to pay attention to the words, not only what's there, but whatís not there. So now here Gen 1:11  says, ďGod created the heavens and the earth.Ē But then when we come down here it says, concerning the plant life, ďAnd God said let there the earth bring forth.Ē What? Why would it say let the EARTH bring forth? Why didnít it say God created or made? No, itís ďLet the earth bring forth.Ē Whatís He talking about? ďLet the earth bring forth grass.Ē Rotherham translates that vegetation-herb. Itís not literally grass, but itís ďvegetation (grass), herb yielding seed,Ē I donít know if the comma and the Ďtheí is in there. ďLet the land put-forth vegetation-herb yielding seed,Ē what is it we are bring forth? Vegetation, herb yielding seed. What are we bring forth? Seed. Why seed? Why not plants, why seed? Now weíre back to the chicken and the egg.

Now notice something here interesting. So God creates man, right. Now people think there is a contradiction between the first creation, in chapter 1 and the recap of it in chapter 2. No, itís just one goes into detail and the other just hitís the high spots, and says hereís how it actually comes about.  

Gen 2:7  So God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
v. 8  And Lord God planted a gardenÖ

Did you notice that? Supposedly back here we have all the herb yielding trees, but now when we go back, it say I planted it. It says, ďGod planted.Ē Did you ever see somebody plant a 100 year old oak tree? I always said if there were 100 year old trees in the garden, and you cut it down, would it have rings?  

Follow me... Gen 2:8  ďAnd Lord God planted a garden eastward, in Eden;Ē and before He put the man in it, that He had formed, when did He plant the garden? Well it doesnít say. It doesnít say when He planted this garden. It just says that He planted it, before He made man.  

He makes man, whatís He going to do with that? Iíll put him in the garden that I planted. Verse 8 ďÖ and there He put the man whom He had formed." v. 9  "And out of the ground made Lord God to grow every treeÖĒ To grow it says, the word is Ďtsâmachí and it means to spring forth, to bud, to sprout. Where are these trees that He planted? They are sprouting! Thatís what the Hebrew says, itís right there, these trees are sprouting. These are not 100 or 1000 yr. old oak trees or whatever. Theyíre sprouting, but not at the instant that He put Adam in the garden, but when He planted it they were sprouting, things were beginning to sprout and bud. Look up the word tsamach, itís to bud, to sprout, to spring forth.  

This does not hold true to the 6 day plan, because He told Adam, ďDonít eat of this tree.Ē TREE? We have sprouts, now we have a tree? This is a long time afterward. But it was sprouting 'when' He planted the garden. It was sprouting, budding, now we got trees, with fruit on it, right.  

Now what does He tell Adam? ďEvery plant of the field, before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it GREWÖĒ The word Ďgrewí there in chapter 2:5, same word tsamach, it means to sprout. Everything that He planted is sprouting out of the ground, budding and sprouting, springing forth.  

Gen. 2:5 ďÖfor Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth: and there was not a man to till the ground;Ē Cultivate, plow the ground, where? In the garden. So then it says, He talks about the rivers that flow from the garden;  

Gen 2:15  ďAnd Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.Ē

The Hebrew is to cultivate it. Have you ever thought of it that way before? No, nobody thinks about Adam plowing in the garden of Eden. Plowing and cultivating, He put him there to do that. So now heís in the garden and heís keeping and tending it, heís plowing and cultivating. I mean you got fruit to eat and so on. But if he wants bread, heís going to have to grow some wheat. Maybe there was a little wild wheat.
 
Heís cultivating the garden of Eden for how long, how many years and then God says itís not good that man should be alone. So then He puts him in the garden, to cultivate. He brings all the animals and he learns all the habits of the animals. Because he named them according to there habits and what they were like, what qualities or characteristics they have. It takes a long time to do that. He named all the animals on earth. God says again, there was not found for Adam anybody to be a help mate for him.  

So Iím saying this was probably years and years he was alone. God said a couple of times, itís not good that Adam should be alone. Finally God puts him into a stupper, takes an organ from him and makes a woman.  

I kidded everybody last conference, it didnít take Adam long to figure out where she came from. He looked at her and said, she came from me, thatís mine or was mine, now itís hers, and itís not a rib. There is a word missing and when it says in verse 23, Adam says, ďAt last!Ē Not many translations have that ďat last.Ē So what He made Adam at 3:00 and she was made at 5:30, and he says, well itís about time! This was years later, and he said, 'okay, at last!' Well the elephants have theirís, the chickens theirís, the cows have their mate and now, one for me, alright!  

But heís there cultivating the garden and God is sprouting the trees. Thatís how it came about. It didnít happen in 24 hours. So thereís a lot in here, you have to read all the words. Iím saying I think God has a lot to reveal to us. So we have to look at the words!

Kat:
Audio 3

A lot of scientist use to believe that matter was eternal. But the last 20 years, Iím being told, by the things Iím reading, that the majority of scientist now, definitely believe there was a creation. Now they think that creation started with a big bang, but there was a time when this didnít all exist, and it came into existence. From where? Well they donít know.

Thatís why I gave you these scripture ďall is out of God.Ē God is spirit, God is invisible. Scripture say all that can be seen, was made from things that are not seen. They didnít come out of nothing, they came out of what is not seen. Who is not seen? God is not seen!  

Now although the world has a superstitious way of looking at religion, there is a lot about the creation that is quite frankly strange. When I talk to Dennis, I say itís just bizarre. This whole creation is really quite bizarre. I donít mean that in a negative or derogatory way. Bizarre means; strangely, strikingly, unconventional and farfetched in style and appearance, okay. In every sense of the definition, this universe is bizarre. I mean think about it, orbs floating though space and stars exploding. Fish in the water and birds in the sky and humans and little kittens and puppy dogs. We grow stuff out of the ground, we chop holes in the ground and grow things out of it. We grow old. For what? Whatís it all about?  

Thousands of generations of everybody trying to get their share of good things, before they die. Weíre always fighting the inevitable. Like Iím always fighting over weight, Iím diabetic you know. Of course it said on the medication: weight gain, cramping, sleeplessness, nervousness, irritation, you know. Nervous breakdown-insanity-death, oh okay, I really want to take some of them, for sure.  

We all live these lives of quiet desperation. Everyone is trying to get out of their situation. There whole life, all day every day trying to get out of your situation. Itís I want to get out of my situation. I donít want to be here, I want to be over there, I want more money, Iím aching, Iíve got to get a hair cut, I need new clothes or I got to solve this problem with my kids. All day, every day, everybody is trying to escape what they are and where they are. Your whole life you are just trying to get away.
 
Sometimes there are moments, when we say wow, the dogs arenít barking, Iíve got food, Iím feeling good, my wife is sexy, the sun is shining, the TV is working, the air conditioning is nice and cool, I just got a new car and life is good.  

And then you start getting older and adopting these other philosophies, and well like, Ďlifeís a bitch and then you dieí or Shakespeare; "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." What? That's life? Thereís not much to it. Itís weird, bizarre!  

And then we go to war and start killing each other and torturing each other. Thereís global warming, and all this stuff!  

Our bodies are so marvelously made, itís absolutely mind boggling whatís in the human body, all the organs and how everything works together. Then it doesnít work. What is that? This big old blood clot, what is that? They just say, Ďit will clear up in about 5 days,í oh well, I get them all the time. People say, Ďyou look okay for 66, Ray.í Thatís out here, but you should see the inside. I mean my feet are turning numb, itís from the diabetes and now itís coming up my legs and my knees donít work any more.

Iím taking all those drugs, so I got a slight kidney infection all the time.  But we got to protect your liver and we need to boost your pancreas, so I take all these drugs. This one is to help absorb insulin better and this one is for high glycosides, one for high cholesterol, one for high blood pressure and then I have hyperthyroidism. I have sleep apnea, so I sleep with machine, because I stop breathing about 50 times a night. I have this sinus where I canít breath half the time. I had two cataracts surgeries and now one eye goes this way and one goes that way, because I had streptococcal meningitis 15 years ago that nearly killed me. I have a huge blood clot on the brain, so thereís a lot of things not working quite right in my body. Iím not worried about any of this stuff, other than it hurts sometimes and itís aggravating, because I can hardly walk stairs and stuff.  

But itís a marvelous piece of machinery. Of course I didnít take very good care of mine, maybe you take care of yours. But then of course there's this thing with heredity, you know. People say, Ďwell I donít know why everybody is sick, they just donít live right.í No, some just didnít inherit good genes, you know. If you did, you can break more laws of good health than anybody and with your good genes, your ok. Your body was made so you good that you can abuse it, and you still canít ruin it.  

So we can realize that this whole creation is marvelous, but yet it is bizarre. Itís quite strange.  We read in Isaiah 28:21 that the Lord is doing a strange work. I say amen to that. Itís strange... because all you people are sitting here, and I am telling you about Bible stories and evolution and stars and people that lie, in their book. Weíre talking about God. Well what is this all about? Somebody would say, Ďwell we want to get saved.í Well what will we do then? ĎWell we will judge angels.í What, weíre going to judge angels? What are angels? ĎOh they are spirit things.í What do you mean spirit? ĎWell you canít see them.í Well how do you know they are there? ĎWell they're there, there are these angels that fly around. Theyíre some in this room right now.í But, I believe theyíre real, that the scary part. I believe they really are, you see.
 
Somebody ask me last week about demons. There really are these things. Iíve had a little experience and I know some of them by name.  

My friend, Eliot from Brooklyn, we went to college together. I was living in Mobile at the time, I had moved away for 20 years, then came back. We were going to meet at Mt. Pocono, because there was a large church up there. We were in Worldwide and they had a festival up there, so I was going to meet Eliot there. It was one of those spooky nights. By the time the last service was over and with the fellowshipping. The sun was going down, it got dark early and it was raining and foggy.  

One of the ministers came up to Eliot and me and ask us to come to a side room, ĎWe have a little problem.í We said okay, weíll help and went with him. So in the room there was about 5 of us and there was this women. She was about 75 years old, with gray hair, a little on the hefty side. She was acting strange. So we ask what was going on, and he said, Ďwell we think Anne is having a problem.í So we were gathered around and Anne was looking a little strange, she would snarl her face up and say, ĎI know who you are.í This was a 75 year old woman, with gray hair and she is talking like a monster, you know. We said, okay we know what we got here. These things would take her over and she would get violent and wanted to attack us. There were five strong men, in our 30ís trying to hold her down.  

This was a 75 year old lady, each of us had one arm one leg, she was just violent. We would ask, Ďwho are you?í She would just snarl and then she would give us a name. We didnít know, so we would just command these things to come out, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then she would settle down and be like, Ďwhat are you all doing?í Weíd say, well youíre not feeling to good Anne, Ďwell, whatís wrong?í You are just not feeling good right now. Then her face would snarl up and she would start yelling at us.  We would say, who are you?  Itís kind of comical now, I donít think that demons are smart. I remember that at one point there was one, I did know them all, but I started to forget them. But this one was named Bok, and we cast out Bok.  Then we cast out a bunch of others. So one after the other, they would just take her and weíd cast them out, then she would just settle down and be fine. She would say, Ďwhatís wrong, why am I on the floor?í She didnít know what was happening.  We would ask each oneís name and it was a different demon. One time I ask who are you, and it said ĎBouk,í we said wait a minute we just cast you out, it said, Ďno, that was Bok, Iím Bouk.í Iím serious.  

We were there for an hour or two, casting out demons. Some of them just would not come out, it said, Ďthe master would be very angry.í  We ask who is the master, it said, Ď Beelzebub is the master.í They didnít want to come out. Then she would settle down for a while. Then this one, we said who are you, it said Ďnoí we said we command you in the name of Jesus Christ what is your name, Ďnoí we said we command you, you have to tell us, Ďmy name is no.í She would settle down and then another would take her over and she would want to attack us and kill us. I tell you by the time we were done, it was enervating. We knew we were in a different realm. We ask them questions and we ask them about stuff, we knew about to see if they knew about it. So this stuff is real. This is not fairy land or the wizard of Oz, this stuff really does exist. They're spirits in the air.

It says in Hebrews you better watch how you treat strangers, because you might be entertaining an angel unaware, you know. Now I donít know if a demon can manifest themselves as human. But I donít see any examples of that.

I only tell you these things so you will understand that it is bizarre. All this stuff, itís real. Itís real, because we are here. Many times Iíve said if I wasnít here, I just wouldnít believe any of this. If someone said there is this earth and people live on it, and there are these animals and fish. I would say, are you crazy, what are you talking about? But Iím apart of this and I see the creation. Iím a part of it and it is bizarre. You canít deny your own existence.
 
Then thereís a God and He is invisible. He works through these mysterious ways, ďA strange work I will perform upon the earth.Ē  But donít let that throw you. Donít ever think that this is all fairy tales, itís all religious, hocus pocus. Itís all real, Iím here to tell you, itís real.

God says, ďyour thoughts are not My thoughts.Ē Well, whatís it all about God? He only tells us a little bit, doesnít tell us everything. I just know there is so much in that first chapter or two of Genesis. That I just know itís filled with stuff, but I havenít put it all together, yet.  

Sometimes Iíll just ask God to show me something and Iíll be laying in bed or driving down the road and boom, there it is. I mean I understand it now, He just shows me, out of nowhere. But there is so much we donít know.  

We are talking about Jesus Christ in this series. Who is Jesus Christ? Where did He come from? What do we know about Him? What do we know about the Father?  
Look at the last Passover.

John 17:5  ďAnd now, Father, glorify Me with Thine own Self with the glory which I had with You before the world was.Ē

Now, we donít think about these things. Iím trying to get people to look at these scriptures. Look at the words, believe it and see what it says. ďglorify Me with thine own self with the glory which I hadÖĒ Glorify mean a worthy name or worthy to be praised or worthy to be extolled or worshipped. Christ said, give Me back this glory which I had with You. Where did He get it?  What did Jesus Christ do, before the foundation of the world, that entitled Him to glory? What? I mean does God just put crowns and accolades on people? What did He do to deserve it, nothing? Iím all powerful. Where did He get the power? Christ tells where He got His power and stuff. He said God gave it to Me, ďall power is given to Me of the Father.Ē Thatís where He got it.  

But now glory is something that you do, that exalts you as someone to be worshipped, adored, and appreciated, for what, youíve done. What did He do before the creation of the world? Before He created the world... what did He do? Well I contend that He did something.
  
Somebody ask the other day, Ďwhy is God going through all this ( I could almost hear them say nonsense) to create sons of God? If He created Christ Jesus, why doesnít He just create a whole bunch of Jesus'? Well why doesnít He just make a whole bunch of Jesusí? We wouldnít have to go through all this pain and suffering, growing old and being sick, hurting and dying? Just create a bunch of Jesusí and then Heíll have all the sons He wants.  

We donít know what Jesus went through. How did He become number One? How did He become the Son of God? How did He become glorified? What did He go through?  It says;

Heb 5:8  ďthough He was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which He suffered;Ē  

ĎYea, but that was talking about things in His physical life.í Was it? Was it really? We could say that and give examples of it  But is that exclusively what it was talking about? Only in the physical flesh, did He suffer to learn obedience and so on?  
Let me show you something, back in Genesis;

Gen 3:22  ďAnd the Lord God said, now the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil;Ē

When there was only God, no creation, no star systems, just God. What did He know about evil? What evil?  

Now He creates man and He said, ďnow he can become like one of Us, to knowÖĒ and of course you can say good, because God is good. But evil? How did God know evil? What in the universe... well there wasnít a universe, well what in God then was there that was evil? How did He know evil?  He created evil, but where did it come from?  Where did the idea come from? When it was only God, who is righteous and good and Holy and just and all of that, where was the evil? God was evil?  

What Iím saying is He knew evil, how did He know evil? Now man understands evil. They are going to be banished from the garden and they die. This is an evil that has come upon them, because they disobeyed. Which is another evil you see. But God said ďWe understand good and evil,Ē( Gen. 3: 22)  Before there was a creation, God understood evil. From where? From what?  

Kat:
                                                                                                                               audio 3/page 2

[A question to Ray, then he replies] Heís just thinking ahead that He is going to create something called evil? But where would that concept come from? If Heís thinking ahead, Heís going to create a Son, who was going to live righteous and good. But that comes from Him, that is what He is. God is love, God is spirit, Heís invisible, this is what He is. God is not evil. How did He know evil? I have some ideas about that. What Iím saying is you can all see that it was there. Weíre going to go a little deeper then these other people go. 

God is all wise, all knowing, all powerful and He does not change. Did He ever? Thatís what He is now, but did He have to go through something to become what He is. Hmm, wow maybe there is more glory in that then you could ever conceive of. Well why doesnít He change? íWhat are you trying to say Ray, are you trying to insinuate that Heís learning?í No, He knows it all. When you reach perfection, you donít change. Once you reach total perfection, you do not change! Jesus Christ is the express, very absolute, image of God. Guess what? He doesnít change. You donít change when you are perfect. Total perfection! Well you think about that.

The Bible starts ďIn the beginningÖĒ  In Gen. 1:1, Right? No, wrong pale face. It just says ďIn beginningÖĒ or if anything  ďIn a beginningÖĒ In a beginning God--Elohim. That Elohim is plural of Elyon or El, which is the singular for God.  So Elohim is plural, itís more than one. But there is only one God. There is only one Elohim and Elohim is plural? Alright we are going to be talking about this. 

ďÖ Created the heavens and the earth,Ē Now we know that this word Elohim is plural, not only from the entomology of the word and how itís used in other religions anciently and so on  But we know when it says for example, verse 27, ďGod created man in His imageĒ and God said in verse 26, ďlet US create in OUR image,Ē They did create, that word Us and Our, because the word Elohim is plural, itís in the Hebrew. The Us and Our is in the Hebrew, itís there. So it must mean Us rather than Me. Itís in the Hebrew, itís there. 

So itís Ďaí beginning. It says, ďIn a beginning God created the heaven and the earth.Ē But then we read something over in Job 38.

Job 38:1  Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
v. 2  Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
v. 3  Gird up now thy loins like a man; For I will demand of thee, and declare you unto Me.
v. 4  Where was you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, it to Me if you have understanding.
v. 5  Who determined the measures thereof, if you know? Or who stretched the line upon it?
v. 6  Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof,
v. 7  When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Whoops, wait a minute, ďIn the beginning God created the heavens and the earthÖĒ This is the beginning of things? Apparently not. What was the first created, the heaven or the earth? The heavens... and the earth. So when we come to the earth, the heavens are already created. When He creates the earth, low and behold we have the morning stars shouting for joy. Where did they come from, if this is in the beginning? 

Alright, first of all when it says morning stars, this is the breaking of day, the dawn. So what is the breaking of day or dawn? Thatís when the earth moves and the sun appears to go up and come down. The whole thing is working! Everything is already working, the earth is turning and now these sons of the dawn, of this turning earth, are shouting for joy and singing. 

But we learn in Job 1, that these sons of God presented themselves to Him and Satan came among them. Remember what Satan was saying about Job, and God said, well you can do anything you want, but spare his life and so on. These are the angelic beings, weíre not told where they are created in Genesis. But now we know. They had to be created between the heavens and the earth. So by the time the earth was created, they are already here. Now we got the proof. 

So He created the heavens and He creates the earth, and then God had to probably say, Ďalright turn it on.í  ĎTurn it, spin it.í Okay now we got day and night...  ĎNow push it, push it around the sun.í Now we have the seasons. The days and nights, and seasons, itís all starting to work. The sons of God are shouting for joy and singing. It says they sang together. ĎI didnít know they sang, where did the angels learn to sing?í You donít just learn things from nothing, God taught them to sing. What? Thatís right, God sings. You see what you can learn if you pay attention to the scriptures. God sings. 

Why can some people sing and most canít? For the same reason some men are handsome and most arenít and some women are pretty and most arenít. So they stand out! If all women were beautiful, nobody would be beautiful, you see what Iím saying. If everybody could sing then nobody would want to listen to singing. Part of the reason that singing is so beautiful, is because you canít do it. When you have that certain edge, that comes only from God, thatís Godly quality singing. God taught the angels to sing. 

So partly what I wanted to show you here, what we have, a lot of it is Godly. Maybe perverted and may not be on the same realm, but it had itís source in a heavenly setting. Maybe more things than we realize.

Heb 8:1  Now these things we have spoken unto you, we have a high priest, who sat down on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
v. 2  a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitchedÖ

Compared to what? The one that Moses pitched. But the Lord pitched the tabernacle, a heavenly tabernacle.

Heb 8: 4 Öfor if He were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, seeing there are priests that offer gifts according to the law;
v. 5  who serve unto the example and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle; for See, saith He, that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.

And what was that pattern of? Where did God get the idea for this tabernacle? In heaven, the heavenly tabernacle. God pitched that one, it was not made with hands. But this one was an example and a shadow of a heavenly thing. God told him exactly how to make it in the physical.

Heb 9:24  For Christ entered not into a holy place made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itselfÖ

What? Apparently so. There are heavenly counterparts of all this physical stuff. Weíve got a lot to learn yet. Thereís a lot of stuff in here(Bible). We got to pay attention to the words. 

So here were sons of God. Well why arenít we like them then? If God made the heavens and the angels - sons of God and He made the earth. Why werenít we made then? We have to go through all this. Well it just appears in this strange work of God, this bizarre creation of His, that He is doing something with us different. 
Angels are created, they come out of God. But they are created. We are not created sons of God, nope. 

Now suppose you were lucky enough that some monarch would let you live in his palace, for what ever reason. You can partake of all the goodies, have fine food, all the entertaining. Wouldnít that be great. What if though, He made you a personal confident of his, wow. I mean somebody like the queen of England. What if a king would adopt you, as his own. Well we are moving on up the line here, now we are adopted. But what would be better yet, what if you were actually born into that family, you were literally a son of the king. 

The difference between these sons of God and us, sons of God, we are going to be BORN into Godís family. I mean we are going to be real born sons and daughters of God, born. BORN! Thatís what it means, itís a much closer relationship. A little bit tougher on the requirement side though. 

Now notice in Hebrews 1, we donít want to say these things without backing them up, right.

Heb 1:5  For unto which of the angelsÖ

Remember we talked about the angels called, sons of God shouting for joy and appeared before God. You know when they were talking about Job and so on. They were sons of God, angelic beings. ďBut unto which of the angels said he at any time, you are my son, this day have I BEGOTTEN youÖĒ Created? No, begotten! You may not know about this Greek word, in the Greek there is no separate word for begotten and born, same word. 

You got to be careful, when Christ said, ďexcept you be born againĒ we are not born again. But we are begotten anew, from on high. Some of these words are left out of the KJ. It should be ďwe are begotten anew, from on high.Ē You are begotten once in the flesh from our parents. Now we are begotten anew, a new begettal from on high. When we are born into the kingdom of God, then we are made where our flesh and blood is turned into spiritual bodies. We will be like God, brother of Christ, like God. So which of the of the sons did He ever say that? Well He said that to His Son, but He never said it to the angels. 

Heb 2:10  For it became Him, for whom are all things(speaking of Jesus), and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
v. 11  For both He that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one: for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

There it is! Did He ever do this with the angels, in His original creation? Back there between the heaven and the earth, when they shouted for joy. When He put the earth in motion and started pushing it around the universe and they shouted for joy and sang? No. They were created beings. We are begotten. But remember we only have the earnest, the down payment.

Like a conception, there is not a baby until itís born. Am I right doctor?  You are a OBGYN? So Dr. Carol here knows all about what Iím talking about. When you are begotten, when there is a conception, there is no baby, yet. Not until they start to cry, then you cut the umbilical cord, now we got a human being, born. So we will be born. There is a big difference between being purchased or being adopted and being born into royalty, born into the family of God. 

Jesus Christ was born of God. Iím seeing in the scripture now, that happened when He was a human, in Mary. We got to go through the scripture and see where He came from. Jesus Christ never once said, I came out of my motherís womb. He tells us where He came from. I can show you 10 places in scripture, where He says where He came from. Not one of them says His motherís womb. 

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