> General Discussions
Islam. (anyone know anything about Islam?)
gmik:
Matt, cool analogy 8)
mari_et_pere:
Why thank you very much Gena! :D
Matt
Bamabee:
Pax, are you saying that Ray's quote are taken out of context and do not represent the general teaching of Islam?
Everyone else, I hear alot of people say the Quran teaches the murder of all who aren't Muslims. Not that I am doubting you, but do we have chapter and verse? I would like to read this for myself and am looking for a reference point.
fe32k:
Islam is dependent on works which already contradicts the scriptures in itself. The books go in entirely different directions when it comes to salvation and worshiping God. The 5 pillars of Islam are 100% based on works and have very little to no spiritual value (maybe with the exception of prayer). It is a violent book, but our very own scriptures are not far behind so it is not a very good point to try and convince a sincere Muslim. I love Muslims and pray that their eyes are opened to truth. They criticize Christianity based on mainstream doctrines which we mostly hate ourselves (the Doctrines that is, I love Christians too). In reality, just like Christians and Jews, they haven't a clue as to the spiritual and delve on the physical and carnal. As we all know, God is Spirit and those that worship must worship Him in SPIRIT and TRUTH. Sorry if there is already a response similar to this one.
God be with you,
Roy
Pax Vobiscum:
No. Ray picked passages from the Qur'an which describe Hell (and its future inhabitants) in very graphic, violent terms. So, in that respect, it was contextual and Hell (eternal torment for unbelievers and general riffraff) is in the teachings of Islam.
The Qur'an is written in surahs -- essentially chapters -- which someone long ago ordered by length rather than subject or chronology. Since it took something like 26 years to recite, it can appear disjointed and contradictory (sound familiar?).
As far as Islam being based on works -- that is partially correct. Yet Islam has some powerful mysticism and poetic spirituality which, they say, is lost in the English translations. I do not pretend to understand Arabic.
But here's the rub and why I join in on this conversation when I think I can contribute: EVERYONE on Earth is on the same journey. Think of it not as a bunch of different religious, sectional traditions opposed to one another, but as humans trying to gain understanding of this life. Everyone is seeking Truth.
Can we really hate people just because they are not as "enlightened" as we? Were we all not at some point in our lives conviced that we had the tiger of truth by the tail? And now (we think) we know better?
Is there anyone out there who is silly enough to say that all has been revealed and understood by humans? Of course not, so if there is still truth and understanding out there to be gained, then everything we believe today (within limits, I hope) is subject to that more complete revelation. That puts everyone in the midst of the spectrum of Truth and no one on either end of it (that is to say I doubt there is anyone who has no Truth as well as anyone who knows all Truth).
If we are on on the same spectrum, then how might I so arrogantly claim such violent thoughts toward a fellow human being only because he is not "up" where I am!
The Cross is not for us to climb upon (with apologies to Camus) to see better who is not up here with us, it is a heavy spiritual burden. Perhaps seeing these people as brothers and sisters who share our journey is what Jesus was talking about after all!
Peace
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