Trinity ???

[jER]

The point I was attempting to make (statements in the form of questions) was that of one God, the father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ. In other words, there is one spirit and one body.

As for I Corinthians 15:28 – if there was not only one God (the father), and one Lord (the Christ), but also a third person, than I would need an explanation on this verse because Jesus hands all back to the father, in a sense meaning – there are two of them (not three).

I must say – excellent analogy in reference to the dough (flour and water).

Also, the analogies given by Kat (dear Waylan) regarding the blue/yellow cellophane, that in effect, together, is green - was also excellent! And, I appreciated the other Scriptures as well. It reinforces that they (God and Christ) are of the same spirit.

It always helps to have different perspectives.
Love to you, both!

[Robin]

Question

Since the Father and Jesus share the same spirit does that mean that Jesus did not have a human spirit like ours? Was he born with only the shared Father's spirit? I thought I read somewhere that he had his own spirit too, but I can't remember.

How does this scripture fit into all of this?

John 1

32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

[jER]

M.G.

John1:32 –And, John bare record, saying: "I saw the Spirit descending...like a dove...upon him."

Perhaps these may help you answer, your question.

Acts 10:38 – How God anointed Jesus...with the Holy Spirit (of the Father)...with power...for God was with him.
John 10:38 – believe, that the Father is in me, and I in Him.
John 14:10 – believe you not, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words I
                  Speak to you, I speak not of myself: but of the Father that dwells in me...
        17:11 – Holy Father...that they may be one, as we are.
        17:21 – That they all may be one: as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they
                    Also may be one in US: 
        17:22 – And, the glory which you gave me, I have given them; that they may be one,
                   Even as we are one:
        17:23 –I in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one;

I believe that the comforter is the Spirit of Christ which dwells in US (the Holy Spirit of God, as they are one in Spirit).
So "shall we be."

This is only a synopsis – for much more could be said! As Jesus, also had a soul, however, not his will, but the Fathers, be done.

In the Spirit of Christ,

- Jer

[YellowStone]

Hi MG.

You asked the following: Since the Father and Jesus share the same spirit does that mean that Jesus did not have a human spirit like ours? Was he born with only the shared Father's spirit? I thought I read somewhere that he had his own spirit too, but I can't remember.

This is a great question. There are many references to the "spirit" in the Scriptures. What exactly is it?

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 

Breath of Life - nesh·ä·mä' (Key) [5397]

1) breath, spirit
  a) breath (of God)
  b) breath (of man)
  c) every breathing thing
  d) spirit (of man)

This is simple enough, a body without life is nothing; the spirit of life which every "living" thing enjoys, returns to God upon death.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.  

However, here we speak of one being "filled" with the spirit of God. What is different with this spirit?

Exd 35:31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

Nothing, it is the same spirit. However, the Spirit has granted and exceeding amount of knowledge to the said.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Is this yet another spirit? No, but the difference is that the spirit will giveth truth, the truth concerning everlasting life, hereinbefore unknown.

Jhn 1:32  And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

I might be totally wrong here, but the "Spirit" which descended was largely symbolic. Christ was given the full Spirit of his Father. Nothing was held back.

Ah, but do we not also have the Spirit of Truth? Yes, we do, but only an alotted amount according to the Father. We can know this because, it is only Christ who was given the whole measure of truth. (Spirit)

Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him]. 

After Christ had arisen, the disciples then received a real portion of the spirit.

Act 4:31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.  

We have not been given "another" spirit than the world. We all share the same God given spirit of life; however, by the love and grace of God the Father, we have received the measure of the Spirit regarding the "Truth" that the world cannot receive. The spirit of the world is not from God, but is rather a mindest brought on by Satan and man's carnal desires. God is not part of this spirit.

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 

1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.  

Much love to you in Christ,

Your brother,
Darren

[Kat]

Hi Darren,

Here is an email from Ray about the human spirit and the Holy Spirit 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4176.0.html ---------------

  Hi Ray,

        Is the human spirit the place where God dwells in us?  "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit (capital S) is spirit (lower case s)?"  John 3:6 

        Thanks,   

        Dwight
       

        Dear Dwight:

        ALL men (and animals) have a spirit. This spirit gives life to the body and produces soul (feelings, thinking, emotions, etc.). But God dwells in our hearts and minds by way of His HOLY Spirit, which is a different spirit.

        God be with you,

        Ray
---------------------------------------------------------------

        mercy, peace, and love

        Kat

[YellowStone]

My dear sister Kat,

Thanks so much for the correction.

I certainly have no issue with your post. However, how many spirits soes God have?     (Please, know that I am not pushing any agenda here) If Ray has written on this subject, by all means, please post the link.

Isa 11:2 
  And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, (1)
  the spirit of wisdom and understanding, (2)
  the spirit of counsel and might, (2)
  the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; (2)

Clould this be the seven spirits as mentioned in Revelations?

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.  

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.  

It would appear that all of theses are attributes of the one and only spirit. The Spirit of God; however, possibly even His HOLY Spirit.  However, "breath" is surely not one of them.

Thanks again Kat,

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[Kat]

Hi Darren,

The way I understand this, is that God gives all physical creatures that have breath, the spirit of life.  This is given with the first breath of any creature, human or animal.  This is God's spirit, and it goes back to Him when we die.

Here is an excerpt from Ray's 'Exposing those who contradict' paper.

http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm --------------

SPIRIT

When a man dies his spirit returns to God Who gave it (Lk. 23:46, Psa. 104:24-30). The "spirit" is never said to go to hades or sheol, and the "soul" is never said to go to Heaven at death. Men and beasts have the same spirit [ruach] and they go to the same place (Ecc. 3:18-21). There is no getting around this: when God takes away a living soul's spirit, it always dies. The spirit "gives life." No one can live without "spirit," no matter how young and healthy he may be. There are no exceptions. If there are, where is the Scripture?
------------------------------------------------------

Now the Holy Spirit(said that by mistake) human spirit is also from God, but it is not the same as the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is given to those God chooses to open their eye, and bring into the knowledge of the truth.  This is when a person is begotten and given the earnest of the spirit.

2Co 1:21  But He confirming us and anointing us with you in Christ is God.
v. 22  And He has sealed us and having given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:11  in whom also we have been chosen to an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His own will,
v. 12  for us to be to the praise of His glory, who previously had trusted in Christ;
v. 13  in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
v. 14  who is the earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Here is an excerpt from Ray's 'trinity' paper.  This goes into much details about the 'Comforter' is the Holy Spirit.

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html --------------------

We will show from Scripture that both the Father and His Son have, and posses "holy spirit," and that They BOTH impart that same spirit to US! And that is how they BOTH dwell with us and in us and make their abode with us (John 14:23).

Next let's consider who or what is the "comforter" mentioned only in John's gospel account.

"And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you [it is not "from" the holy spirit, but "from" the Father] another Comforter [this word does not require a capital letter], that he [it] may abide with you for ever [Greek: for the aion--eon or age]. Even the Spirit of truth..." (John 14:16-17 KJV).

Remember that Jesus said "I am the truth." How then can this "comforter" be coming from both His Father and Himself? Is this possible? Once we understand just what this "spirit of truth," "spirit of God," "holy spirit," "holy ghost," "comforter" really is, we will see that it certainly DOES come from both the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

From The Concordant Literal New Testament:

John 14:16-18, "And I shall be asking the Father, and He will be giving you another consoler, that it, indeed, may be with you for the eon--the spirit of truth, which the world can not get, for it is not beholding it, neither is knowing it. Yet you know it, for it is remaining with you and will be in you. I will not leave you bereaved; I am COMING TO YOU."

In this section of Scripture, Philip, Thomas, Peter, and Judas (and possibly all the Apostles) did not quite understand what Christ was teaching them. They especially didn't understand how that Jesus was going away and that were He was going they could not come, but that it was necessary for Him to go away to His Father, or He could not send them the comforter or consoler.

Jesus was assuredly "the spirit of truth" of which He spoke. And as such Jesus was with the disciples. But now He is telling them that when He leaves them to be with the Father, He will come back to them, only this time He will not just be with them, but He will be IN them! The spirit of truth was with the apostles in the person of Jesus Christ, but He told them that after He left to be with the Father that this same spirit of truth would be in them. This is all done by "spirit," the spirit of God.

Notice verse 26 of John 14:

"Now the consoler, THE HOLY SPIRIT, which the Father will be sending in MY NAME..."

And see how this is done, verse 23:

"If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and WE shall be coming to him and making OUR abode with him.

This is done through the consoler, the comforter, the spirit of truth, THE HOLY SPIRIT of God! Jesus said He would not leave them "comfortless" (Ver. 18), so for sure Jesus must return to His followers to "comfort" them. This He did and still does by the "spirit of God" which God gave to His son Jesus and which the Father then turns around and gives FROM that very same spirit in Christ TO US! The following Scripture make this plain:

"All things that the Father hath are mine [all things include the holy spirit]: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine [that is, of the spirit that His Father gave to Him], and shall shew it UNTO YOU" (John 16:15).
--------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[YellowStone]

Hi Kat,

Thanks for your quick response. Once again I have no problem with anything said or implied. That is with all but one 

I'm not sure whose words these are, but could you please clarify their inent?

Now the Holy Spirit is also from God, but it is not the same spirit as the Holy Spirit.

I am assuming that what is meant is the God's Spirit is in itself Holy, but is not the "counselor"  as outlined in your response. Is this correct? 

Many Thanks,

Love in Christ,
Darren

[GODSown1]

just ma fiddy cent worth lol!
                                  Wow! I think bring on all Questions!!!, dis is sO Orsum!!!, BlesSingS 2 u alL,  "BrinG iT!" lol!
         muchLOVE!! Pera

[Kat]

Hi Darren,

Now the Holy Spirit human spirit is also from God, but it is not the same spirit as the Holy Spirit. 

I did say that, but the first Holy Spirit, should have been human spirit 
Thanks for catching that.

The Holy Spirit is God the Father's spirit, it is the same spirit of Christ, and it is the same spirit of the Comforter, because the Father and Christ are One.
The human spirit is from the Father, but it is different from the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is only given at spiritual begettal.
You can see they both come from the Father and are spirit from Him, but they serve different purposes.

I hope that straightened that out

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[jER]

Thanks...Kat, for this link...

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html

When comparing/contrasting the human life with that of the life of Christ, we gain a greater understanding of who [we] are in Him.
I will enjoy reading this - in its entirety.

Praying you (all) - have a blessed day.

- Jer 

[Robin]

Thank you all. It was the 'Exposing those who contradict' portion that I remembered reading, but didn't know where it was.


Romans 8
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

I am very confused about the Spirits.

From what I've gathered Christ and the Father share the same Holy Spirit. They are two different beings, but one because they share the same Holy Spirit.

So that would make each of them a Spiritual being who both also share the Holy Spirit, which is the Father's spirit? Would the comforter be the Spirit of Christ? So both the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit would live in us if we are chosen now? You can't separate the Spirit of Christ from the Holy Spirit because they are one and also one with the Father because they share the Holy Spirit. How can we know that we have the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God living in us?

I am sorry I am bad with words. I can't seem to get my confused thoughts written out right.

[Kat]

Hi M.G.,

So that would make each of them a Spiritual being who both also share the Holy Spirit, which is the Father's spirit? Would the comforter be the Spirit of Christ? So both the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit would live in us if we are chosen now? You can't separate the Spirit of Christ from the Holy Spirit because they are one and also one with the Father because they share the Holy Spirit. How can we know that we have the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God living in us?

1Co 8:6  yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Mat 11:27  "All things are delivered to Me by My Father..."

Christ and the Father are One, it is by the power of the Father all things are done, this power is His spirit.  So whatever Christ does He does by the power/spirit of the Father.

Joh 17:20  And I do not pray for these alone, but for those also who shall believe on Me through their word,
v.21  that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me.
v. 22  And I have given them the glory which You have given Me, that they may be one, even as We are one,
v. 23  I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them as You have loved Me.

When God gives His Holy Spirit to someone, it is Christ and the Father, you can not separate the spirit from Them, it is all God.

John 14:26  But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

This is when your eyes opened, Christ is in you and He is teaching you to discern the truth.  You should be able to tell if you are seeing things new and different from before.  When yours eyes are opened, then you understand the truth, you can relate to those who speak this truth.  Then we are of like mind, when you believe the same truths that Christ is showing us.

1Co 2:10  But God has revealed them to us by His Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.
v. 11  For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man within him? So also no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
v. 12  But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
v. 13  These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
v. 14  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
v. 15  But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one.
v. 16  For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Robin]

Thank you Kat. That was very helpful.