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[carol70]

Hi all.  I'm new here, was led to bible-truths a little over two weeks ago.  It's been quite the humbling experience reading the different threads here and discovering just how much I do not know.  I seriously need a remedial bible study class!  So please bear with me while I get up the nerve to ask really basic questions from time to time.

Prior to having my eyes opened, I considered myself a Christian believer.  I grew up in the church but didn't "officially accept" Jesus into my life until a few years ago, which led me to joining and becoming baptized in a Baptist church. 

Prior to two weeks ago, I considered myself a believer.  And now, I wonder about the term.  Is it possible to be a true believer if one doesn't know or accept basic truths about God's word?  What if you don't know you're blind or have been decieved, is there such thing as a blind or deceived believer?  And what if you're exposed to certain truths, but stubbornly refuse to accept them and try to maintain a tight hold on the standard Christian doctrines -  does that make you a former believer or unbeliever?

[mari_et_pere]

Carol, welcome to the forum! Don't be shy about asking questions. I think we all ask from time to time.

Prior to two weeks ago, I considered myself a believer.  And now, I wonder about the term.  Is it possible to be a true believer if one doesn't know or accept basic truths about God's word?

You'd be suprised at how many people come here in the exact same state of mind that you did. I wouldn't worry about wether or not you were a believer. Your question is "what is a believer?" A believer believes. It's that simple. Did you believe the truth? Of course not all of it because you didn't know all of it. Believer is such a church doctrine term anyway. Let it go.

What if you don't know you're blind or have been decieved, is there such thing as a blind or deceived believer? 

But yes, there is such a thing as a deceived believer. They lied to you with the same lies that they themselves had been lied to about, and you believed the lies just like they themselves did. So you believed and were deceived. But thank God you're being called out of that mess. That's all that matters! Don't worry about there terminologies for this and that. It doesn't matter!

And what if you're exposed to certain truths, but stubbornly refuse to accept them and try to maintain a tight hold on the standard Christian doctrines -  does that make you a former believer or unbeliever?

I've seen many people do that. It doesn't matter what THEY say it makes you. Forget the believer/unbeliever crap. Here's the best thing to do if you want to know the real truth. When you're exposed to the certain truth in question (there must be one you just didn't put it out there) then look it up in the scriptures. See for yourself! A lot of the standard doctrines do nothing but deceived you and pull you further away from what you really want - the truth!

You're obviously at a crossroads huh? Read Ray's stuff on his site. You'll learn a ton of truths. You'll be shocked at some. But it's all true, no matter what you call yourself for beleiving it. 

Matt

[YellowStone]

Hi Carol, Welcome to the forum

Matt, I want to thank you for a very edifying response. 

Your words and insight are comforting and true. We cannot beat ourselves up for past beliefs / actions; for we could only believe what was given to believe.

Carol, the true blessing is that you are now seeing the truth, and just as importantly, the lies for what they are.

There is a wealth of knowledge here; however, I believe in my heart that the starting point is here.

Mat 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38  This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39  And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These verses are probably very familiar. Yet many in the church completely miss their significance. We are to love one another as we love our selves. One does not (I hope) discriminate onself, nor laud oneself over oneself; so neither should a true believer act in this way towards any other. Believer or non believer alike.

So as true ambassadors to God, the Spirit of Truth should never be hid away, for the.....

Gal 5:22  ......Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

The gift of the Spirit is indeed life changing and it is wonderful

Much to love to you in Christ,

Darren

[Extol]

Hi Carol, Welcome to Bible-Truths.  As Matt said, a believer is simply someone who believes. It does not mean someone is one of God's chosen elect.

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

 John 8:31-32

 Notice that Jesus spoke these words to the Jews which believed on him; and those same Jews, a few moments later, said that Jesus was possessed of a devil!

for many are called, and few chosen...
 
 Matthew 22:14

 There are many millions (even billions) of believers who are called, but only a few are chosen. And still there is more to it than being chosen:

  for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 Revelation 17:14

 be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 Revelation 2:10

 Judas was called and chosen, but he was not "faithful unto death". The ones who are called, chosen, and faithful to the end shall be rewarded with the life of the first resurrection.

He who endures till the end shall be saved.
 
 Matthew 24:13

[carol70]

I've been reading the Lake of Fire series and other articles and I've been listening to Ray's audios virtually nonstop over the past two weeks.  I know I'm hearing the truth.  It's hard to denounce the truth when Ray presents so many scriptures to back it up.

One of the reasons for my question is this:

2 Corinthians 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

1 Corinthians 7:14-16

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

All along, I thought I was equally yoked with my husband, who considers himself a "believer."  Just trying to figure out what some of this means...

[Pax Vobiscum]

Sounds to me like you are asking rather, "What is a non-believer?"

I would caution you to not dwell on these matters and seek God.  Once we begin trying to decide who is/who isn't; who will/who won't; who does/who doesn't; or, who shall/who shan't love breaks down and arrogance tries to take over.

Whether you are a Sneech with a star on your belly or your husband hasn't one (yet?), we are all Sneeches and must beware of the Sylvester McMonkey McBeans out there who will try and convince us otherwise.

Keep the faith... simply.

Welcome.

Peace

[CEO]

Carol

     I like 2Thess2-13'...God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the spirit AND belief in the truth.' 
     When I think of  'believer' I couple the word 'truth' with it.  Everyone on earth believes something.  Truth matters.  Without truth there is no salvation.  We love God's spiritual truths so much we are drawn together to share with each other.

                                                   Askseeknock

                                                   Charles O

[carol70]

I would caution you to not dwell on these matters and seek God.

I try but I'm a pretty good worrier and dweller.   But I am slowly but surely learning to seek God and rely on him completely.    He has a way of getting my attention by repeating certain bible verses over and over until I get the message.  They seem to appear everywhere and out of nowhere - anyone else experience this?

Anyway, for the past month, Proverbs 3:5-6 has been popping up in the strangest places, when I least expect it:

5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I'm pretty dense , so while I've been stressing over certain trials in my life that seem to never end, He keeps saying, "Just trust me.  Stop trying to figure out what's going on.  Just trust me, in all things, and I'll lead you the right way."

It's hard, when so many things are uncertain.  Not to mention, coming out of the church, the one place I felt God had been LEADING me to all my life, is difficult.  I don't feel any pull to remain but I do feel a bit lost and very alone.  But it's such a blessing to be able to fellowship with all of you here.

[mari_et_pere]

5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I'm pretty dense , so while I've been stressing over certain trials in my life that seem to never end, He keeps saying, "Just trust me.  Stop trying to figure out what's going on.  Just trust me, in all things, and I'll lead you the right way."

It's hard, when so many things are uncertain.  Not to mention, coming out of the church, the one place I felt God had been LEADING me to all my life, is difficult.  I don't feel any pull to remain but I do feel a bit lost and very alone.  But it's such a blessing to be able to fellowship with all of you here.

Carol, that's one of my favorite scriptures! I think we all struggle with our own understanding getting in our way. It's a stumbling block, and it's hard to see past it sometimes. So stumble as we may; all we can do then is get back up and trust the Lord.

Matt

p.s. It is a blessing isn't it? Not only because people can help me or you, but that we can help them too! (Well I try anyway  ) Keep believing Proverbs 3:5 and 6, okay? I'm sure things will get easier! 

[gmik]

Hi Carol.  I can't add to the great responses.  I learned a few things in this thread, and I am no newbie!!!

You are in the "shock & awe" phase and we all have gone thru it or are in it right now.  The loneliness at first is hard, but all seem to get thru it as time goes on and you get more and more teaching and fellowshipping on BT or our forum.  

MANY here can help you w/ the spouse issue.  Remember, everything is God's plan for you.  Rest in that.

[YellowStone]

Hi Carol,

You wrote

It's hard, when so many things are uncertain.  Not to mention, coming out of the church, the one place I felt God had been LEADING me to all my life, is difficult.  I don't feel any pull to remain but I do feel a bit lost and very alone.  But it's such a blessing to be able to fellowship with all of you here.

Carol, there is only one thing that you and I anyone needs to know and fully understand, is that we do not know what tomorrow may bring, but GOD does.

Pro 27:1 Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth.  

The following words of Christ are so comforting to me, I hope that they can be for all that read them too.

Mat 6:25   “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
 
Mat 6:26   Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
 
Mat 6:27   Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
 
Mat 6:28   “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.
 
Mat 6:29   Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
 
Mat 6:30   If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
 
Mat 6:31   So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
 
Mat 6:32   For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
 
Mat 6:33   But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
 
Mat 6:34   Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

There are many things in this life I call mine that I do not have answers for; the "what if's..." are staggering yet I / we have all we need. We have a Father who knows, loves and cares for all.

Faith and Worry do not fit well together  

Much love to you Carol, it is so good having you here so that we can learn and grow together in the body of Christ.

Love,
Darren
 

[LittleBear]

Gina, I love that! "shock and awe". How true!

Hi Carol,

So many of us on this forum seem to be going through various trials. That's God's way of helping us grow up spritually. It seems that sometimes they are piled up one on top of the other and you don't know if you can bear it all. I find that I really press into God during these times, I really pray a lot and include Him. Hang in there! Sometimes I wonder if that's the reason for the lonliness, so that one turns wholly to God because there is no one else.

Oh, as far as the label "believer", I don't think it is for us. "Christian" also won't do. I still really don't know what to call myself if someone should ask. So far it hasn't happenned. Um, maybe.....follower of Christ? Possible Elect? So far though, I am unlabelled.

Love,

Ursula

[DWIGHT]

Hi Carol,

Some really good advise here.  Maybe I can add just a little.  Your journey sounds so familiar to the rest of us, because God has created that hunger and thirst for righteousness in us.  Like the children of Israel, we were all slaves in bondage.  Then God began saving us by the blood over the door.  But to many Christians that is where they still are...in Egypt.  They never even got through the Red Sea, let alone into the wilderness, where they must wander for forty years.  Then those who disobeyed, died and just a few made it through Jordan to fight the battles with the inhabitants of the land.  What I'm getting at is it takes quite a process for us to get through this life and into to His rest.  It takes time and a lot of trials and tribulations to enter into the kingdom.  Right now you are brought to the place where God knows what you can and cannot take.  Some are a little further ahead and some are still in Egypt.  This journey will not end until the day we die.  We cannot see what we cannot see and we cannot hear what cannot hear. This can only come by God's revelation.

Try not think of your husband as one that you're unequally yoked with, but as one who hasn't been given eyes to see or ears to hear yet.  It's not his fault, all is of God.  When God wants him to see, he will see.  Not one of us here wanted to see or hear.  We were dead in our sins.  But God......it's all God.  God bless you on your journey, your'e not alone anymore.

In Him,

Dwight