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[Deborah-Leigh]

Latest e-mail responce from Ray. Thanks Craig for this one!  

clearly your ministry is something other than of the true Lord most high, you do not preach out of love but condemnation and rebuke of God's chosen vessels.  I don't believe you have truly passed from death to life for you do not love the bretheren.  I'm working on doing this myself, but certainly not by poisoning people with anti biblical propaganda.
     
    There is a way the seems right unto a man, but its paths lead to death.
     
    I am sorry if this offends you, but let me say you have no right to poison God's body with hate teaching.  Hell is very real--get a revelation and seek the Lord that he will forgive your treachery.
     
    Not all men will be saved as it is written--many will try to enter the wide gate and broad way, but few will find that narrow path that leads to eternal life.  I hope you find it and change all of this wickedness on your site.
    

     Dear Mr. Van Dam:

    You teach that God will torture most of our loved-ones for all eternity in a hellhole of literal fire, yet you lying, two-faced,  blaspheming hypocrite have the unmitigated gall to suggest that I teach hate?  I hate no one.  AS IT IS WRITTEN, GOD WILL SAVE ALL:  I Tim. 2:4, 4:10; Phil. 2:9-11; Eph. 1:10; I Cor. 15:26 & 28; I John  4:14;  John 12:32; I Cor. 15:22; I Tim. 2:5-6;  I Cor. 3:15;  John 3:17;  I john 2:2;  II Cor. 5:18-19; II Pet. 2:9;   etc., etc.  You have no more confidence in the Creator of the Universe to carry out his Word than the man in the moon.
    
    You call my teachings anti-biblical propaganda.  You wouldn't know what anti-biblical propaganda is if you were to listen to it in the confines of stained-glass phallic symbols under a pagan obelisk for thousands of hours.  (See my paper on The Origin of Endless Torment, Hell Part C, in my "Lake of Fire" series.)
    
    One day you will be my brother;  but not today.
    
    God have mercy upon your miserable soul and stony heart,

Now THAT looks like the Spirit of Christ if ever I saw it! What a magnificent Christ minded response....Home run Ray!

Why can we not be more like that in our communications with deceived lost and erring souls. I am sure it is because the Church has disarmed its prisoners and bound them under the spell of sniveling servitude of double faced duplicity! It might astringently pull some right rather than to soft peddle around them and duck and dive!....What a fantastic example Ray presents to us! It is elating in its direct honesty and presentation of Truth! For me anyway I really hope one day I too can be like that. I know that some will cower and whimper off in the opposite direction though!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[rk12201960]

Well said to both Ray and Arcturus,

Well done,
Hear here.

Randy
 

[YellowStone]

Arcturus, thanks for posting that! 

Talk about the blind calling the one who can see, blind. Amazing!!

I have no doubt that you wil have the words and the strength to reply as needed, when needed Arcturus.

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
 
As it is, this is enough. If the Spirit of Truth within you wants you to speak like Ray you will surely speak and speak words of truth that no lie can hide, or man deny. 

God's Spirit of Truth is all knowing and we need not worry to much.

Jhn 8:32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." 
 
You my sister have a good handle on the truth, and one day so will all of the detractors. They will know the truth, and the truth will set them free.

I'm not sure if I want to speak like Ray as much as I know that I wil be given the words I need when I need them. I'm sure you will have them too!!

With love,
Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[Robert]

Well put, Arcturus!
When I first read the response I thought that Ray was a little hard, but then I remembered when I first came across Ray’s site, I’d been a fundy for 30 years and a five-point Calvinist to boot. It was to me a revelation, the more I read the more I hoped it was true. Mr Van Dam should search the scriptures to see if these things are so.

[gmik]

This is Ray's site and people choose to personally "curse him out", so they should accept what he dishes out.  He is called to do this and given by God his personality.

I have not been called nor have the wit and wisdom to answer as he does.  It bothers some and doesn't bother others.

I sent a friend to BT and they were appalled and said they wouldn't read anymore! (Rather than argue or try to win her over I just let it be.)

When I stumbled on it, Ray's retorts didn't deter me in the least bcz I was reading Truth!!

[Craig]

Gena,

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.


Sound like anyone in the churches today?

Craig

[Deborah-Leigh]

...The Church is FULL OF good words and fair speeches for they are "destitute of truth but rich in fallacies and DOCTRINES OF EMOTIONS" 1 Tim 6

When Christ was instructing Jeremiah in the way HE had chosen for Jeremiah, Christ said : Jer 26 : 3 STAND in the court of the Lord's house and speak to all the people of the cities of Judah who come to worship in the Lord's house ALL THE WORDS THAT I COMMAND YOU TO SPEAK to them; SUBTRACT NOT A WORD.

....For me....this is the clincher and reason behind this COMMAND....3 It may be  (it might be ...no guarantees. ) that they listen and turn every man from his evil way......

I see Ray STANDING and SPEAKING that some may listen and turn and repent also....

Jer 30 : 24 The fierce anger and indignation of the Lord shall not turn back until He has executed and accomplished the thoughts and intents of His mind and heart. In the LATTER DAYS you shall understand this.

Of course some will not understand this at all! Of Course Ray reveals through his correcting edifying responses to his detractors that he, (Ray) understands this because he does not goodie two shoes tip toe around doctrines of emotions. He exposes them with deft clarity which may be saving grace for those who do turn and repent.

The Church is filled with the spirit of Zophar the Naamathite's carnal teachings and what to do remedial actions to get into Gods favor, Eliphaz the Temanite's condemnational persecutions and Bildad the Shuhite's doctrines of emotions. God was displeased with these "friends" of Job while Job was acknowledged as speaking RIGHT. Job, like Ray, also made it clear that he did not agree with his friends and he expressed true knowledge of Christ's Sovereignty.

If you read the conversations between Job and his "friends" Job looks like he read Ray's teaching of the Myth of Free Will and the "friends" have not ABC yet!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[YellowStone]

Arcturus my sister,

Please forgive me, but I feel that you are perhaps elevating Ray higher than he, himself would.

You said: "I see Ray STANDING and SPEAKING that some may listen and turn and repent also...."

Yet this goes 100% against of how I understand Ray see's himself. Ray gives all glory and recognition to God. 

Quoting Ray from http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN

"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men—ourselves? NO—GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).

It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.

It is GOD who does the calling:

"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).

It is GOD who does the dragging:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).

It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:

"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).

Eventually this will include all mankind:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).

And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:

"That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and those under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11—See also Isa. 26:9b).

And let’s not forget:

"…no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3b).



I do not see Ray and SPEAKING that some may listen and turn and repent also....just as many others profess to do. Rather I see Ray and I am sure he will agree, that he (RAY) is doing the work that GOD called him to do.   

"Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers" (I Cor. 12:29, Concordant Literal N.T.).

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:    

Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 

Christ is the Head of the members of his body; the very body that Ray is in my opinion, a part.

I must respond to this also:  If you read the conversations between Job and his "friends" Job looks like he read Ray's teaching of the Myth of Free Will and the "friends" have not ABC yet!  

Arctutus, it is words such as these that invite people to suggest that you are placing Ray above those of old. That perhaps the writings of Ray are more important than the Scriptures, God's own word. I find that statement offensive and derogatory towards all that God has worked. Job feared God and gave all reverance to God himself.

Job 1:1 ¶ There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Moderators, please forgive me for this.

Yours in Christ,
Darren

[Kat]

Hi Darren,

I did not come to the conclusion that you did after reading Arcturus' post.
Did you not take into account the scripture she gave which said, "When Christ was instructing Jeremiah"  Does that not show where she was coming from.

Of course Ray is "STANDING and SPEAKING"   
As it is obvious from Arcturus' many posts she does not put Ray above Christ.

I think you were out of line to imply such a thing.  I will close this thread now, because I know what will ensue and that is not what this forum is for.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat