Baptized for who??

[fe32k]

1Corinthians 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" (KJV)

1Co 15:29 Else, what will they do, who are being immersed in behalf of the dead? If, not at all, are the dead to be raised, why are they even being immersed in their behalf? (Rotherham)

1Co 15:29 Else what shall those be doing who are baptizing? It is for the sake of the dead absolutely if the dead are not being roused. Why are they baptizing also for their sake? (CLV)

1Co 15:29  Otherwise what shall they do those being dipped on behalf of the dead ones, if at all dead ones not are raised up? why and are they dipped on behalf of them? (Diaglott)

1Co 15:29  Seeing what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? why also are they baptized for the dead? (YLT)


What is this verse speaking of? Mormons actually literally baptize themselves in place of people who have died, so that the dead may be saved. I doubt that is what paul is speaking of here. Can anyone shed some light on this verse? It seems that the CLV went out on a limb here to try and make sense of this verse. I am not normally bothered by petty technicalities that will sway my faith anyway, but this a refutation for the ressurection of Christ and I am guessing that it is important to understand what Paul meant here. Thanks

In Christ,
Roy

[Kat]

Hi Roy,

We can see from the beginning of this chapter that Paul is trying to persuade the believers/brothers, that there is a resurrection from the dead.

1Co 15:3  For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures,
v. 4  and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures;

Now as you read these scripture up to verse 29, you can see Paul is explaining to them that since Christ was raised, that they too can have faith that they will be raised. 
The resurrection of the dead does not seem to be believed by most at that time.

1Co 15:12  But if Christ is proclaimed, that He was raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
v. 13  But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither has Christ been raised.
v. 14  And if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation is worthless, and your faith is also worthless.
v. 15  And we are also found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified of God that He raised Christ; whom He did not raise if the dead are not raised.
v. 16  For if the dead are not raised, then Christ is not raised.
v. 17  And if Christ is not raised, your faith is foolish; you are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18  Then also those that fell asleep in Christ were lost.
v. 19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
v. 20  But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
v. 21  For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
v. 22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
v. 23  But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

1Co 15:29  Otherwise, what will they do, those being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not at all raised, why indeed are they baptized on behalf of the dead?

Now in verse 29 you can see Paul is still trying to convince them that, "those being baptized on behalf of the dead?"  The dead this is talking about is Christ.

Rom 6:3  Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?
v. 4  Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father; even so we also should walk in newness of life.
v. 5  For if we have been joined together in the likeness of His death, we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection;


Paul goes on to say, "If the dead are not at all raised," or if Christ was not raised, "why indeed are they baptized on behalf of the dead?"  So if they do not believe in a resurrection of the dead, Paul is saying it would be useless to be baptized into Christ's death, on behalf of His death, if He was not resurrected.
Paul is saying if they do not believe that Christ was raised, then why would anyone be baptized on behalf of someone who they think is still dead. 
It is not Christ death that saves us it is His life.

Rom 5:10  For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

That's the way this verse 29 looks to me 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[seminole]

My simple view is that I was baptized for me. I wanted to make a public statement if you will, that God had changed my life.
Nole

[jER]

Nice explanation, Kat!

There are those (others) who believe that Christ Jesus was not actually dead, meaning – "He never truly died", that nullifies or makes the Resurrection with no effect. Hence, they take a verse like John 11:26 to support their immortality (as in the soul never dies):

   "And whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die"...

I believe that Ray mentioned this in one of his writings? And, as you have stated, "there is a Resurrection of the Dead."

..."It is not Christ death that saves us...it is His life."

I so, enjoy the truth of your words...His Truth.

In His Love and mine

- Jer

[jER]

Yes - "He changed, all our lives." Amen to that!

- Jer

[YellowStone]

Hi Roy,

Very interesting question     Kat, I think you did a grand job of expounding it.

I too was able to dig up a little, although nothing concrete, just some different ideas of what the practice of baptizing for the dead, actually meant.

1Co 15:29 Else, what will they do, who are being immersed in behalf of the dead? If, not at all, are the dead to be raised, why are they even being immersed in their behalf? (Rotherham)

The word "who" in this passage would seem that the practice was prevalent at the time Paul spoke. Conjecture arises because Paul did not provide any more information.

I was able to find three recognized theories other than the one Kat provided, but this one seems the most plausable


 
   

1.	Believers including recent converts did NOT want their dead loved ones to miss out on the promise becase they had died before being baptized.

What I find interesting is the way Paul handled the situation. By asking a simple question...

"If, not at all, are the dead to be raised, why are they even being immersed in their behalf?"

He was able to "question" the practice and perhaps plant the seed of doubt, without either condoning or condemning the practice.

Certainly this is only a possible scenario and because Paul left it at that, perhaps before we fully understand, we will have to wait until we can ask him what he meant ourselves.

Kat, I know that this is not the same as what you got out of it, so I hope you don't mind this view.

Love in Christ,
Darren

[fe32k]

1Corinthians 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" (KJV)
[/quote]

Thanks everyone,
       I've heard Darrens explanation before but never have I heard it explained as Kat did. It is true though that Paul might have been speaking of a practice he did not necessarily do himself. The word "They" gives a clue to this as he is excluding himself from those who baptize for the dead. It has been revelation to me that things practiced by the apostles themselves might be something they did while still immature in spiritual matters such as baptizing in literal water or circumcising, etc. I am not at all doubting the resurrection, but due to this one verse whole doctrines have arise and I just wanted to make sure I had it clear when it came time to defend my position with the scriptures. Thanks.

[rocky]

IMO, being baptized for the dead, is what the first fruits go through in order to be conformed into Christ's image.  This baptism into Christ's death and resurrection has a purpose in the salvation of all mankind. 

Mar 10:39  And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:

The first fruits or the first born are the means to blessings to all.  Christ and his body are the seed, the first fruits, and through them all families of the world will be blessed. 

Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

This remnant is being conformed into Christ's image through death/life (baptism).  Christ was the forerunner.  The first fruits are an extension of Christ.   

Rom 6:4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Phi 3:10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Phi 3:11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

1Co 15:30  And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

1Co 15:31  I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

2Co 1:5  For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.

2Co 1:6  And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.

Rom 8:36  As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

2Co 4:12  So then death (baptism into Christ) worketh in us, but life in you.

Co 15:29  Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized

1Co 6:2  Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Gen 28:14  And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory forever. Amen.

[seminole]

Rocky , that was AWESOME! We don't have to wonder. We know that we are covered. I don't have to live my life as always second guessing whether I am saved, being saved or whatever! Man, that is true freedom and comfort. Somewhere it says in the Bible that we should come to the Father as little children. A little child is so trusting and that is how we should be. I don't have to try to figure out what all the words mean, translations and all, what eternity means in Greek and Hebrew or anything like that. Me  trying to figure out that stuff is funny anyway since I can barely handle the english language! What I believe is true. God's got me. sure I will stumble and mess up but God knows the desire of my heart is to follow the teachings of Jesus. Before anybody jumps on that one, I know I can never reach it on this earth but that is what my desire is. Thanks Rocky! You have answered so much in the scripture you posted.
Nole

[jackson]

Amen brother, Amen!

[jackson]

It's great how when your questioning something or maybe something isn't making sense or maybe as is often the case with me you just forget; all you have to do is ask for clarity.  Then like flipping a switch, the light is on.  Thank you Jesus!!!

In His Grace,
Jackson