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Rambling thought
gmik:
Chuck thanks-she is cute :)
Thats good, I will have to contemplate the is, was, and will be aspect.
Maybe aionian "ages & stages" too.
(Ahem...Chuck where is YOUR picture????) :D
Kat:
I looked through Ray's articles in the Lake of Fire, and found these excerpt that help explain the judgment by fire that is going on now and will in the future.
http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html -------------------------
"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).
Peter makes it sound as though going through fiery trails is the norm rather than the exception. The New Testament is filled with the fiery trials of the Saints.
Now I hope that none will be offended at my next few statements, but if so, so be it. Unless God Almighty through the purging power of His FIERY SPIRIT, is BURNING OUT the lusts and passions and vanity and haughtiness and greed and self-righteousness and laziness and weakness and hypocrisy and wickedness and pride and materialism and cynicism and depravity and carnality in your life, then Jesus Christ is not choosing you to reign with Him as the Sons of God in the Kingdom of God to bring all Heaven and Earth to repentance and salvation!
Such damnable character flaws of the mind and spirit are going to be burned out of us all! God will either BURN OUT these filthy impurities from our hearts and minds NOW, or He will BURN THEM OUT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, but either way, make no mistake about it, THESE THINGS ARE COMING OUT!!!
http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html
In the second resurrection, at the white throne judgment, in the lake of fire. The lake of divine spiritual fire will bring salvation to ALL THE NATIONS! "…but he himself [whomever of the billions of people purged in God’s spiritual fire] shall be SAVED; yet so as BY [God’s spiritual consuming] FIRE"! (I Cor. 3:15).
Remember that there are two administrations of God’s purging fire: The first is on the House of God consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers and sons of God. The second will be at the second resurrection and white throne judgment in the lake of God’s divine purging fire. All the children of the bondwoman, the Old Covenant, the Mother Whore with her harlot daughters, will one day be the children of Heavenly Jerusalem Above, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL!
http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html -----------------------------------
GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE
I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.
Ponder this:
Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).
We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).
We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).
God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).
We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).
God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!
God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:
"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).
Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!
THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!
The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).
And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.
"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"
And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!
----------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
To add:
Job 14 : 12 So man lies down and does NOT RISE to his former state TILL THE HEAVENS ARE NO MORE, men will not awake nor be raised physically out of their sleep.
Sounds to me as Ray teaches. NOW for some, is the judgement on the House of God and later for others not experiencing judgment, is the LOF.
consider also this :
Jer 30 : 11 For I am with you, says the Lord, to save you, for I WILL MAKE A FULL AND COMPLETE END OF ALL THE NATIONS to which I have scattered YOU, but I will not make a full and complete end of you. But I will correct you in measure and with judgment and will in no sense hold you guiltless or leave you unpunished.
I think the above shows the judgments on the House of God NOW.
1 Cor 3 : 15 But if any mans work is burned up under the test he will suffer loss of it all, loosing his reward, though he himself will be (Future ) saved, but only as one who has passed through the fire (LOF)
I think this shows the person who LOST the reward and who is the person who experiences the LOF.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
gmik:
Whew! That section of the LOF was really powerful. So the nations go thru the safety of the elect! So is the stripes we talk about, some few, some many, just a metaphor as well??
Is there a difference btwn being purged of laziness, greed, pride etc now as opposed to later?? What would the actual trial be like then? Like I can think of the ways He burns these out down here, now, in our lives and w/ our loved ones.
Then I have also heard that one glance upon the Lamb, and everyone will bow the knee. One glance in His eyes is all it takes to know your a sinner and to repent and worship. So why stripes?? It only took a second for Paul to repent. Yet his life was a testement to being in judgement w/ all he had to endure.
I really don't obsess over this usually. This thread just got me thinking.
Kat, those 2 sections from LOF was a good refresher for me. I gotta start over I think. Its that good!!
Kat:
Hi Gena,
I know what you mean, it can all be confusing.
--- Quote ---Is there a difference btwn being purged of laziness, greed, pride etc now as opposed to later?? What would the actual trial be like then? Like I can think of the ways He burns these out down here, now, in our lives and w/ our loved ones.
--- End quote ---
We all understand that it is a process that we go through to be purged of our carnal nature. Like you said, "in our lives and w/ our loved ones." It seems all the things that happen in this life are used by God for chastening and correcting us, that understandable.
Now we read in the scripture that Christ warns the disciples to pray that they would escape the judgment when Christ returns
Luke 21:36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worth to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
The great white throne is judgment and all that end up there will be cast into the Lake of fire.
Mat 13:50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
That doesn't some good. I do not think this will be quick and easy for them. We have scripture that says this punishment will last a whole age, I guess that length would be just for some.
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
v. 9 who shall be punished with everlasting(eonian) destruction(punishment) from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
v. 10 when He shall come to be glorified in His saints and to be admired in all those who believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that Day.
I think the few and many stripes has real meaning. I believe that all of God's judgment, perfectly matches the sin. So there are those in this life who were actually really good people, and there is John the Baptist and the prophets, I would think they would go through few 'stripes.' But all will have to learn of Christ's sacrifice and obey the spirit of the Christ's commandments, just like for us it will be a process.
I hope this helps, but I know it might just stir up more questions ;)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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