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Author Topic: Think in reverse  (Read 2262 times)

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mrl1970

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Think in reverse
« on: June 10, 2007, 02:34:56 AM »

Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

In a way God seems to work in reverse.

Ecclesiastes 3:15
That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

Do you see it? The past is now, the future is past.
God requires the past
The past is now, the future is past.

This is why in Mark 11:23,24 God wants us to believe the future now (because if it is his will it has already been done), before one receives (which is the future to that which has already been declared)

Mark 11:23-24

23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

What a strange and wonderful work!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 02:40:19 AM by mrl1970 »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Think in reverse
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2007, 07:50:04 AM »

Time is a great enigma!

Heb 13 :8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and for ever.

I think time is a great big idol carrying deception of man. Some of us gauge, measure or think in terms of our past to identify who we are in the present. Some think in terms of their achievements or acquisitions to find their identity. What your experience is can determine what your value is in the work place. No experience and much know how get you only so far into perhaps the junior position with great prospects for the future. Experience with know how gets the better position and more Senior post if age does not count against us.

We invent methods to arrive at our future dreams and identify ourselves with our future ambitions. This is the methodology of the worldly world. What are you going to study when you go to university? What are you going to become when you leave school? Who are you going to be in the future and what will you be doing all get caught up in the time frame of opportunity and future pressures being felt in to days drama of life. Man is NOT the same yesterday today and tomorrow. Is this not the image of Christ to which Christ is fashioning those He has chosen? To BE the same no matter what. Paul caught this aspect of being the same regardless of his circumstances. But Paul was focused on Christ not a future of self acquired status or recognition from the the world system. The world system is in time. The Christ system has mastered, conquered and surpassed time.

In Christ there is no difference between yesterday and today and for ever. Christ is the same in all aspects of time. In fact He sets a new TODAY and gives another opportunity of securing that rest saying through David after so long a time in the words already quoted, TODAY, if you would hear His voice and when you hear it, do not harden your hearts..Heb 4 : 7

Is time the heart softener in the Hands of Christ teaching us to draw nearer to TODAY and hear His Voice? When our past looks dismal and our future unattainable or when the pressure of living opens a way for us to take one step at a time and enjoy the moment....every moment in gratitude for today.

Perhaps what it all boils down to is this. God is Eternal and that has got nothing to do with time.

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 08:12:18 AM by Arcturus »
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YellowStone

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Re: Think in reverse
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2007, 12:02:05 PM »

Mrl1970 and Arcturus, this is a great discussion :)

Arcturus, it is a great enigma :) And mrl1970, your comments on Ecc 3:15 are equally enigmatic. :)

Time is a measure of "state" but it is not the "state" and neither can it be. The life of man revolves around the measurement of time.

Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,  

Psa 104:19 The moon marks off the seasons, and the sun knows when to go down.  

Act 14:17 Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.

The Kingdom of God, even God himself is Eternal and as such are "Eternal states," beyond measurement, without beginning of days or end of life.

Man, however, is compelled to measure; even the "Big-Bang" theory is self-destructive, because what was "before" the big-bang?  ::)

Paul, fully realized that the measurement of time is flawed and wrote to the Galatians regarding the matter.

Gal 4:1   What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate.
Gal 4:2   He is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father.
Gal 4:3   So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. (analyzing, measuring, predicting, etc)
Gal 4:4   But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,
Gal 4:5   to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.
Gal 4:6   Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”
Gal 4:7   So you are no longer a slave, [not under law] but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.
Gal 4:8   Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.
Gal 4:9   But now that you know God–or rather are known by God–how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
Gal 4:10   You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
 
What Paul has said is that the Galatians, who were once slaves to the law and followed the laws of observing special days, were once again returning to those practices as if by doing so, they could somehow further their salvation.

Paul was a little exasperated:

Gal 4:11   I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.  :-[

This instruction has great merit even today. :)

However, to your point mrl1970, is it God doing it in reverse or is it Man?  :)

The carnal man in all his wisdom, strength and self assurance set's force on an epic journey called life, every single day. He searchs, but does not find; he acheives, but is never satisfied; he prays: "God, what am I doing wrong?" but never "sees" his answer.

It is man who must "stop" (by the grace of God)  and turn from the path he is on and begin the begin.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Faith will soon cause man to realize that all his "eforrts are in vein" ref: Ecc 6:12

There is NO reason for man to worry about where his next meal will come from, or his clothes or for that matter anything to do with his future.

Mat 6:25   “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
Mat 6:26   Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
Mat 6:27   Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
Mat 6:28   “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.
Mat 6:29   Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
Mat 6:30   If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Mat 6:31   So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?
Mat 6:32   For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
Mat 6:33   But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Mat 6:34   Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
 
I believe that the instruction given in vs 34 is a stumbling block for MANY! The confusion stems from the total conflict between the words: worry and faith.

Mark 11:23-24
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

True faith in God (not empty words) truly relinquish any concerns of reguarding the worrisome words of "But! What if..." :) Time, in thise sense becomes irrelevant.

Thanks for a great study, :)

Yours in Christ,

Darren
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Kat

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Re: Think in reverse
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2007, 02:29:26 PM »


Hi Mrl,

I can see where you are coming from.

Isaiah 46:10 "declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,"

It seems to me that once God decided on His plan and purpose for this creation, it was as good as done.

Revelation 21:6 "And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment."

So now we are just fulfilling the details of the plan that has already been determined.  Every thing that mankind is going through is a part of that plan and has a purpose in it's fulfillment.  If we are having our eyes opened we are among the blessed few to understand what it is that God is doing.

I agree with you, "What a strange and wonderful work!"

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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mrl1970

  • Guest
Re: Think in reverse
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2007, 03:27:28 PM »



We invent methods to arrive at our future dreams and identify ourselves with our future ambitions. This is the methodology of the worldly world. What are you going to study when you go to university? What are you going to become when you leave school? Who are you going to be in the future and what will you be doing all get caught up in the time frame of opportunity and future pressures being felt in to days drama of life. Man is NOT the same yesterday today and tomorrow. Is this not the image of Christ to which Christ is fashioning those He has chosen? To BE the same no matter what. Paul caught this aspect of being the same regardless of his circumstances. But Paul was focused on Christ not a future of self acquired status or recognition from the the world system. The world system is in time. The Christ system has mastered, conquered and surpassed time.


This is what I was thinking when I named this thread Think in reverse.
Maybe rather than thinking about all the things we must do to stop sinning such as praying, studing the Bible, etc, we first should consider our sin gone for good [as it has already been declared)  then we obey.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 03:38:25 PM by mrl1970 »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Think in reverse
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2007, 04:40:23 PM »

we first should consider our sin gone for good

Yes..but not today...because today we live in hope of His return and full deliverance from sin when He brings His reward with Him not to deal with sin but to bring full redemption. So we live today in HOPE for His return don't you think? Not as one who is sinless or fully redeamed yet but as one living in HOPE.


[as it has already been declared) Yes it has been declared that God will save all yet we do not know where we will be saved through the LOF or judgement in our life time NOW....

then we obey. Obedience is a biggie with the Church....Could anyone dis-obey if Christ has said the word to obey. We all resist God because we do not know Him as He is. Obedience comes from the Spirit of Christ not our own spirit. Upon conversion and re-birth into His image then we will obey because we will know and understand and see Him as He is. Until then do's and don'ts show only who we follow...the law or the Spirit of Christ. Do we seek to know Him or do we seek to impress Him?...the Church teaches obedience and pleasing Him. What a wretch. How can clay please the potter unless He has fashioned it the way He pleases? :D

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
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mrl1970

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Re: Think in reverse
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2007, 06:50:52 PM »

we first should consider our sin gone for good

Yes..but not today...because today we live in hope of His return and full deliverance from sin when He brings His reward with Him not to deal with sin but to bring full redemption. So we live today in HOPE for His return don't you think? Not as one who is sinless or fully redeamed yet but as one living in HOPE.


[as it has already been declared) Yes it has been declared that God will save all yet we do not know where we will be saved through the LOF or judgement in our life time NOW....

then we obey. Obedience is a biggie with the Church....Could anyone dis-obey if Christ has said the word to obey. We all resist God because we do not know Him as He is. Obedience comes from the Spirit of Christ not our own spirit. Upon conversion and re-birth into His image then we will obey because we will know and understand and see Him as He is. Until then do's and don'ts show only who we follow...the law or the Spirit of Christ. Do we seek to know Him or do we seek to impress Him?...the Church teaches obedience and pleasing Him. What a wretch. How can clay please the potter unless He has fashioned it the way He pleases? :D

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)

Well stated Arcturus!!
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GODSown1

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Re: Think in reverse
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2007, 12:09:46 AM »

Amen! 2 d@,
          OrsuM!!! stufF,      muchLOVE!! Pera
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jerreye

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Re: Think in reverse
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2007, 06:22:37 AM »

Lovely post, mrl1970. That certainly spoke to my heart!
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