lake of fire temporary

[chuckt]

greetings all, and blessings in Yeshua, Jesus the christ.

many will fight tooth and nail against truth, unwilling to forsake tradition.
seeing they would have to confront the elders and be kicked out of their "synnagouge".

here be some proof text on the fire being temporary:

the lake of fire would be where the demons are punished, correct??

now:

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

before the time

literal:

29 And lo! they cry, saying, "What is it to us and to Thee, Son of God! Didst Thou come here to torment us before the season?"

does not season denote a fixed period of time??



Kairos 3:455,389
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
kahee-ros' Noun Masculine

Definition
due measure a measure of time, a larger or smaller portion of time, hence:
a fixed and definite time, the time when things are brought to crisis, the decisive epoch waited for opportune or seasonable time the right time a limited period of time


http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat8.pdf





any thoughts??

peace
chuckt

[Kat]

Hi chuckt,

the lake of fire would be where the demons are punished, correct??

That is correct, but the Lake of fire is where all that do not come up in the first resurrection will be cast.

Rev 20:15  And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

This is talking about the great white throne judgment, where all who have ever lived will be give account and will be purged and saved.

Rev 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them.
v.12  And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And of course you are right, this judgment is temporary 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[rocky]

hi everyone, in light of what chuck wrote re: LOF being temporary, how do we reconcile these verses?

Mar 9:43  And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:45  And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:46  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mar 9:48  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mar 9:44  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


My thoughts are that LOF is second death; it is will never stop burning in the sense that what is consumes/destroys (carnal), is forever burning and never to come to life again.  The carnal/old covenant man is dead, death will never be resurrected again.

make any sense? 

 

[YellowStone]

Hi Rocky,

I believe the term "never shall be quenched" and the matching references of: "fire is not quenched"

Can be taken as they read. No one will quench the fire. However, let us look at it from another angle. If man makes a fire out of wood; how long will it burn if it is not quenched (put out)?

The answer is of course as long as the FUEL supply holds out. This fire will burn itself out. We can use this same analogy with the LOF. This fire is burning / consuming / destroying all of the carnal impurities, false beliefs, infact everything not of the Spirit. Once all is consumed, down to the last hateful thought, the Cleansing Fire will burn itself out. Neither God, or any other will smother the fire, hence it "is not quenched"

I think Ray has written on this somewhere.

Love to you in Christ,

Darren

[mari_et_pere]

That make sense. Think about it:

You're in a fire. It may be a spiritual fire, but I'm sure it won't be pleasant.  So, I imagine the people in that fire would want it quenched. Christ is saying no, that can't happen. It's not done until it's done. Nobody can put this fire out. It's doing it's job, and it's not done yet.

So it burning itself out as it finishes it's job makes sense to me.

Matt

[chuckt]

keep reading:



49 For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be salted with salt.

[Kat]

Well what is the fire?

Heb 12:29  for our God is a consuming fire.

What will we become when we are born into the kingdom.

1Jo 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

The torment will only last for the period of time that there is anything inside of us, that is not pure.  When you are totally purged and cleansed, you will be brought into the God family, you will be spirit.
Those in the first resurrection will judge the world the same way that God does, with their consuming fire.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them....And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Isa 66:16  For by fire and by His sword Jehovah will execute judgment with all flesh;

Luk 12:49  "I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled!


mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[fe32k]

In response to the fire not being quenched, this fire spoken of in revelations and other parts of the Bible is the holy spirit of God. I sure do hope it is never quenched. When Hay or wood (i.e. Sin) is passed through this fire (i.e. holy spirit of God) it is burned off but when gold or silver (i.e. Love, good works) is passed through this fire (i.e. holy spirit of God) then it is refined.

1Corinthians 3:12-13  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

The fire is not dependent on whether it has fuel to keep it going, the fire is self sufficient as God is self sufficient, because God is the Consuming fire ( see Hebrews 12:29). And He will consume all sin and death Himself to destroy it utterly because God and sin cannot co-exist forever. That is why the idea of everlasting hell is absurd. God will NOT allow sin to exist forever and as long as there is hell there is sin. I hope this makes sense.

In Christ,
Roy

[YellowStone]

Hi FE32k

You said: "The fire is not dependent on whether it has fuel to keep it going, the fire is self sufficient as God is self sufficient, because God is the Consuming fire ( see Hebrews 12:29). And He will consume all sin and death Himself to destroy it utterly because God and sin cannot co-exist forever. That is why the idea of everlasting hell is absurd. God will NOT allow sin to exist forever and as long as there is hell there is sin. I hope this makes sense."

Perhaps we are getting lost in semantics

I have no problem with what you say, in fact I believe we are saying the same thing, but differently.

Thank you for bringing this up.

Love to you in Christ,
Darren

[CDJ]

Hi all,

Rev 18:20 says "...Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged, you on her..." (KJV)

(LITV) "...Rejoice over her, Heaven, and the holy apostles, and the prophets, because God judged your judgment on her..."

(YLT) "...Be glad over her, O heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets, because God did judge your judgment of her!'..."

...Be glad :-), rejoice :-), because it's done and over. How wrong must your love be, to rejoice while others are damned forever? Love will rejoice when all is purged :-)

Walk strong :-)

[fe32k]

Darren,
    I was not arguing or even writing according to your post, but after getting your post I did notice you said:

Once all is consumed, down to the last hateful thought, the Cleansing Fire will burn itself out.

In Hebrew 12:29 we are told that God IS the consuming fire. In Malachi 3:6 we are told that God does not change. I deduct from this that God will always be a consuming fire. There is no real life analogy to this because real physical fire always needs something to consume in order to keep burning. God's fire consumes SIN, but sin will not always exist and the unchanging God will. Hence there will be no "burning out" but the fire (aka spirit) of God lives forever providing a source life and light for His magnificent creation (after redemption) forever.

Rev 22:5  And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle[source:fire], neither light of the sun[source:fire]; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.

I don't intend to argue as I am sure we are both on the same page. I just wanted to make sure that what I said is not misunderstood.

In Christ,
Roy

[YellowStone]

Hi Roy,

First let me apologize to you. In no way did I think you were arguing.

I was agreeing with you 100% AND still do.

I do not believe that we should confuse God as a "consuming fire" as a literal fire. (I might be wrong on that) So as you say God does not change.

He doesn't change, but that is not to say that his purpose molds to fit his grand plan. When He chooses to cleanse, he cleanses; when he chooses to show love, he loves and like wise, when he chooses to comfort, he provides comfort.

We are not left wanting. Psalm 23

Your posts were / are very insightful.

Love in Christ,
Darren

[seminole]

speaking of a fire being fed by something and then going out when the fuel is exhausted got me thinking of the core of the earth. It is a molten mass right? We don't always see the molten, hot , fiery stuff but it is there under the crust. What do you think?
Nole

[fe32k]

speaking of a fire being fed by something and then going out when the fuel is exhausted got me thinking of the core of the earth. It is a molten mass right? We don't always see the molten, hot , fiery stuff but it is there under the crust. What do you think?
Nole

Nole,
   Not sure what you are trying to say. I think you are making a statement for God's existence even though we don't see him. But even the core of the Earth requires a source (or process) and is actually cooling... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_core)

[seminole]

Even if the core is cooling how many millions of years will it take and will mankind even be around? If not , we will be someplace else in the next life. God's power is awesome. He is there no matter that we can't see Him