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Author Topic: Contradictions  (Read 8894 times)

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ciy

  • Guest
Contradictions
« on: June 16, 2007, 04:05:24 PM »

Just curious because there are so many verses that bothered me for years either consciously or subconsciously.  They were either blatantly against the truth or there was just something about the verse that you knew had to be true but since it was against the tradition of the teaching of religion so I would brush it off and continue to believe what the theologians taught.

Anyway I have never made a list of those and I thought it might be interesting what all of you see as those big contradictions.  Of course there is the overall doctrine of eternal hell that I was uncomfortable with but I accepted anyway and there is free will that I really professed even though I had uncomfortable feelings about deep in my spirit. 

To give an example of what I am talking about.  I heard over and over that if you believed in God and lived holy then God would answer your prayers.  Then I would wonder how was it that as hard as Jesus prayed in the garden for deliverance from what he was about to go through and God did not answer his prayers.

Another was that the church said if you will say the sinner's prayer then you are saved and all of your sins are forgiven.  Then I would read where God said if you do not forgive everyone their trespasses against you then God would not forgive you of your sins.  I would pause over this, but then I would go on with my life believing that the sinner's prayer had saved me.

Now that I know God is sovereign, many are called few are chosen in this age, and all will be saved in the end I am amazed at those verses that were contradictions to what I was taught but I believed what I was taught instead of what the verse actually said.

I would be curious of the verses that perplexed you the most before coming to the truth.
CIY

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mrsnacks

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2007, 04:19:55 PM »

I only have a minute. But I will address what you said about verses that perplexed you. This will always be the case. Why ? Because then we will continue to come to Him. And showing we won't arrive to a point whee we have got it down.

I will learn a new truth and then read another verse and then realize there is always something I don't know. And in His time He will give you the understanding.
The more I grow in His Word- the more I have come to realize that there is so much that I don't know. There will always be verses that will perplex you. I have found receiving His truths as eating a potato chip. You have one and then you want more. What is it about the chip that it is virtually impossible to stop at
one ? Why do we desire God's truth ? Why do we desire to know Him ?

God did answer Jesus' prayer by the way. Jesus prayed for the Father's will be done and it was. 
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LittleBear

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2007, 10:37:27 PM »

Hi CIY, :)

It's funny how we just accepted the teachings of the churches because our eyes were not opened, God was not yet showing us His truths. The whole fairy tale of eternal damnation is an example. I remember going along with it because it was just what I was always told. Or the trinity. I didn't get it, but I just accepted it because I thought those that were more knowledgable than I certainly knew better.

I am now learning to ask God about everything. I may be wrong on some things, but at least I know that God will have mercy on me even if I am wrong, and eventually steer me in the right direction. I am so thankful that He is my Father and is lovingly guiding me in the right way.

Love,

Ursula
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dogcombat

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2007, 10:56:55 PM »

CIY,

You may want to re-read "Praying By God's Rules"

http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm

Ches
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 11:10:16 PM »

Thanks all for your posts, but I think I may have miss communicated.  Maybe I should have posted it on Off Topic Discussions. 

I was using Jesus in the garden praying as an example that proves what the preachers of christendom preach to be a lie. 

I believe what Ray writes in his prayer article. 

I thought it would be interesting to see if others had examples of verses or ideas of religion that they had to ignore the meaning of and believe what the theologians said in order to stay in the church.

Another example was that I was told to believe that you had to be completely submerged in water in order to be baptized and there were discussions that some spoke on that you had to be baptized to get to heaven.  I would think about the people in the bible that were not mentioned being baptized and I would wonder why would God make it a prerequisite to be baptized.  I always knew that was wrong but now I see it so clearly.

Maybe it is not interesting to all but I think it is amazing how I was so deceived over so many silly doctrines.
CIY
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Robert

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2007, 11:23:40 PM »

I completely agree with you. I have for years been searching for a faith that answers the apparent contradictions espoused by churchianity, and I found myself becoming more distant from what is typically taught. As Ursula correctly pointed out, some beliefs like the Trinity cannot be explained but they must be held to or one risks being marginalised.
For me, the biggest problem was God’s sovereign will and the belief that many people were just not going to be saved because He didn’t call them. As a Calvinist before discovering Ray’s site, I could already shoot down with scripture the myth of ‘free-will,’ but the conclusion (of Calvinism) was a contradiction of God’s love, justice and mercy.
Ray’s teaching on these important doctrines have renewed for me the joy of my salvation.
Blessings, Rob.   
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 01:55:15 AM »

Did you read that email to Ray from Rick??  A couple other threads are talking about it.  Anyway, I believed all that garbage about a "pre Adamic" race that lived here in between Gen l:l and l:2.  I believe Lucifer was a heavenly choir director and was beautiful but got proud.  Ugh, I cannot even continue...

I thought Ezekial flew around in a space ship.  Oh yes!

I believed "sons of God" in Job were from other planets.

How do Christians get so decieved??  I didn't bother to check it out in scripture or w/ common sense!!
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2007, 02:11:33 PM »

Gena
I believed some of those also such as the Chariot of the Gods book. 

The things in the church that would get me is like 1 John 2:15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.  If any man love the world the love of the Father is not in him."  And I would think how could that be when people like Billy Graham were high up in this world.  The church tells us to embrace the world system and I always believed that over the word which very clearly says you have to lose this life in order to gain life. 

Amazing how God set up such perfect deception.
CIY
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LittleBear

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2007, 07:28:16 PM »

Then there is the whole speaking in tongues situation if you are in a pentecostal church. If you really want to be fully accepted and not looked down upon, well, really, you have to learn to speak in tongues. Of course no one there would say you actually LEARN it, because it's a gift God gives you which is for everyone, but you had better be able to do it at some point. There are so many people in pentecostal churches praying earnestly and fervently for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Funny how on the day of Pentecost, those in the upper room didn't even know that was what was going to happen. No one there was fervently begging God to give them tongues. Also, that they were actually speaking in other languages isn't usually remembered.

Ursula
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2007, 10:24:43 PM »

You are right Ursula.

Early on in my search for God, I went to hear Andrew Wommack at a nearby town.  He is moderately famous from Colorado Springs.  At the end of his service he asked who had not received the gift of tongues.  I raised my hand along with many others and we were sent to a room where we would be counciled by experts to receive the gift of tongues. We were told to just pray and speak whatever jibberish came to us and I did.   I never was able to speak in tongues and was disappointed for a while until I began to move out of that phase into the light. 

You know as silly as that looks now I know that I had to go through that to get to where I am now.  When you seek God with all of your heart I think you try several side roads until you find the truth.  I thank God for the path I have traveled.
CIY

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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2007, 10:04:11 AM »

HI CIY,

Here is a classic example of a blatant miss-teaching.

Christ say's:

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 

The Church say's"

1Ti 2:4 Who will have only the fortunate men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. The ones who say the sinners prayer and gladly give 10% or more of their income to the church. (This is what Christ meant)   ;D

They can't see the forest for the trees, and the can't hear the brook for the waterfall. They know not what the see or hear. Just as it is Gods will. How gracious and thankful should we always be, for we did NOTHING of our own to see and hear the truth for what it is.

All is of God. Hallelujah!!!  (a shout or song of praise to God)   :) :)

Love to all in Christ,
Darren
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dogcombat

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2007, 03:01:18 PM »

You're right CIY,

I missed your analogy. As for the tongues "instruction", OHHH OUCH!!  You certainly have come a LOOONG WAY! 

Ches
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2007, 03:15:28 PM »

Thats a good one Darren!

They will all say Jesus died for All Men, but they don't mean it!
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Robin

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2007, 04:35:39 PM »

I had this scripture used on me by members of the church.

2 Timothy 3
Godlessness in the Last Days
 1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
 6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.



When I started learning the truth I did not have a teacher and it was hard learning with the limited knowledge that I had. I got it in bits and pieces from God and searched the scripture for what seemed like millions of hours, lol.  I got quite far on the free will series, but was still in the church for a year until God called me out. The friends I had in the church turned against me and there were two statements they made that were devastating. I was on shaky ground by myself not being able to find anyone else who belived the way I did. My pastor told me my beliefs would only lead to despair and my friends told me that I was a weak-willed women always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

That bothered me for many years because it did seem like I was always learning and couldn't come to the full knowledge of the truth. It made me feel like I would be forever lost.

Then one day I was riding in the car and thought of the scripture and God revealed to me that IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT TEACHING THE TRUTH THAT THOSE WOMEN COULDN'T LEARN TRUTH!!!!

They twisted that scripture to use against me and God freed me that day from the hurtful words of my church friends and their  pastors.


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E. Woods

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2007, 04:41:14 PM »

I know from experience, being brought up in a Pentecostal church,  I was taught this
was the true church.
  Every time you go to the alter to tarry for the holy ghost, we were told to,
repeat some words over and over and over, and when the words came out so jumbled
up you couldn't make sense of what you were saying, some one would say you
had received the holy ghost.
  There is a few scritpures in the bible where people received the holy spirit, and never
spoke in tongues. I believe ,  Tongues is a gift of the holy spirit.  and not everyone
gets that gift.
                         Earl
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LittleBear

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2007, 06:31:13 PM »

Oh, Hi there Earl,

I'd like to welcome you to the forum! It's nice to have you here, and I hope you will post some more.

Yes, in the Pentecostal church, tongues is a biggie. In Acts 2, on the day of Pentecost, they were speaking in other tongues, in other languages. It was not babbling but actually as they were speaking, others heard them and understood them in their own particular tongue.

Acts 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?

Now, THAT was amazing!

Ursula
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2007, 06:38:10 PM »


Hi Earl,

This subject has been adressed in number of emails to Ray, here is one.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4162.0.html --------------------

Ray,

I noticed your not real big on speaking in tongues? Is this because it is something you have yet to experience or might you have scripture telling you it isn't for today?

[Ray Replies]

Not only am I not "real big" on speaking in tongues, but I am not even "real small" in the matter.

Paul said this concerning tongues:  "whether there be tongues, they shall CEASE." Or in the Concordant Literal New Testament: "languages, they will CEASE." That word translated "cease" is from the Greek word "pauo" and it means: "stop, restrain, quit, desist, COME TO AN END." Is that clear?

If you will notice and take a lesson from Paul's instructions to the Corinthians. He said they they came behind IN NO SPIRITUAL GIFT!!  Yet, they were among THE MOST CARNAL CONGREGATIONS OF THE GOD'S CHURCH ON EARTH!!!  Those who think "tongues" was a sign of spiritual maturity are sadly mistaken.

After Paul lists all of the gifts that would no longer function, he likens these gifts to the toys of childhood (I Cor. 13:9-11). But when we become MATURE IN CHRIST, we are to put away THESE CHILDISH THINGS. And so Paul then informs us that "NOW [or from NOW ON...] abides, Faith, Hope, and Charity [Love]."

By the way, I have never heard of, nor do I know of a person in the twentieth century or beyond, that could speak in multiple foreign languages in which he had NO FORMAL TRAINING!   Do you know of any such person?

Hope that helps your understanding a little better.

Ray
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Ray has a really good article on tongues, the link is below.

http://bible-truths.com/tongues.htm

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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seminole

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2007, 06:45:16 PM »

Sorry I can't remember who posted this but I think it was referring to Timothy about the last days. I think we all have some of those characteristics that are descrbed. At least I know I do. From the moment we are born we start the road to our last days. Do good and kind to anybody God puts in our paths and make each day a glory to God!
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jER

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2007, 11:48:41 PM »

Here is what was said, to me today!


    "Jesus bore our sins in His body. Is that all that He did? No! With sin, there came punishment. He not only bore our sins, he bore the  punishment, which we should have had to pay. He bore our sin, so we could have His righteousness.  He bore our sicknesses, so we could have His healing and health. He bore our poverty, so we could have His wealth. He bore our sorrow, so we could have His joy. He went to Hell, so we wouldn't have to. He bore it all for us. He was our total and complete substitute for sin and all of its penalties."

"Do you disagree? I can back-up every bit of it with scripture."



 - jER
« Last Edit: July 07, 2007, 11:55:58 PM by jER »
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Contradictions
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2007, 11:54:50 PM »

Oh yes, that is standard issue prosperity/faith/ blabbing.

Today at a wedding, the lady preacher read all of Deut. 31.  Remember the blessings.....versus the curse.......?

Ya know, I feel like skipping all weddings/funerals in the future.  I can barely tolerate churchianity teachings anymore.
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