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[mari_et_pere]

You know many years ago I used to think I wasn't a Christian really because I just couldn't sit through watching TBN or listen to Christian talk radio. It would make me sick. There were families I knew at the time that would have TBN on 24 hours a day practically. I guess Pharisees love being Pharisees.

Hey Snacks, I totally 100% understand. I've been there! But be careful because the people you can't reach really can't help it. That's the annoying part. That's the frustrating part. They may seem to enjoy their way, but do they really? Did you when you were part of it?

I've sat out of church for a long time. Once in a while I go to appease my wife. Next Sunday I may go because my brother in law is preaching. They think it's disrespect if I don't go. Ugh!

Anyway, my wife goes almost every week. Yesterday she came home and told me about her experience. I guess the youth group led the worship [or song] service. I heard that they were so annointed, that you could feel the presence of God, that it was just beautiful. Was it? I'm not sure because I wasn't there. Can you ever feel the presence of God in church? If so, why? Why would you be able to in a place where they're doing it all wrong? Is it psychological? Is it real? I don't know because I wasn't there, but she's pushing to pull me back in, and I'm resisting as kindly as I can. 

But yeah back on topic here.  I know you want to help as many as you can, but if it's bogging you down then church is no place for you bro. You won't do any good unless God has it in His will to use you for that purpose. Does He? If I were a betting man I'd say no, because how many get called out? Few. How many have you reached? You said a few.

So I'm just saying basically in a nutshell after getting long winded like I do sometimes, that you have no reason for any guilt if you pull out of there. I sense guilt and frustration, which is totally understandable, but it's also unnecessary man. You will have done nothing wrong if you don't go back.

You can only do so much before it becomes futile. We can't shove it down their throats. They have to seek it. We plant seeds, but we can't control the weather. 

IMHO

Matt

[mrsnacks]

I don't get that one. Feeling the presence of God. God dwells in us. Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Why is it that your wife claims to feel the presence when one goes to the temple or building where God says He doesn't dwell in ? And why didn't she feel His presence on the way to the building when He is living inside her?
How does one know it is God's presence as opposed to the warm fuzzies. I get the warm fuzzies and feel great when being at a concert. Feelings are a poor criteria of truth. God never tells us to go by our feelings. Paul and the other disciples never said Jesus is true because we feel His presence. Where does it say in the Scriptures that one needs to go to the building to feel the presence of God ? It doesn't say "you will feel the truth and it will set you free. "

[fe32k]

I don't get that one. Feeling the presence of God. God dwells in us. Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Why is it that your wife claims to feel the presence when one goes to the temple or building where God says He doesn't dwell in ? And why didn't she feel His presence on the way to the building when He is living inside her?
How does one know it is God's presence as opposed to the warm fuzzies. I get the warm fuzzies and feel great when being at a concert. Feelings are a poor criteria of truth. God never tells us to go by our feelings. Paul and the other disciples never said Jesus is true because we feel His presence. Where does it say in the Scriptures that one needs to go to the building to feel the presence of God ? It doesn't say "you will feel the truth and it will set you free. "

This is not God they are "feeling." How do you know what God feels like? Does evil not feel good sometimes? Do the scriptures describe this feeling? If so where? Does not music you like make you feel good sometimes or feel peace or feel relaxed or whatever? I went to a pentecostal church and in there people would faint, shake, dance in the spirit, etc. I have never seen anyone do this outside of their comfort zone within the temple or church. God is not ashamed of His works and would do it everywhere. These feelings are not necessarily the feeling of being spirit filled, but the mind giving itself some sense of accomplishment or satisfaction or purpose without really doing anything. These feelings are carnal and should be treated as such. I don't want to generalize, so let me say that this may not be the case ALL the time. Only God Knows what goes through these peoples head.

Roy

[mrsnacks]

Good point. I recall the pastor saying to the congregation - how can anyone just sit there and not be excited about praising the Lord.Let us a give the Lord a huge hand clap. The whole church went bananas and I just sat there. He was obviously talking about me indirectly. Just because I don't dance and shout and say a bunch of amens I am not into it. I was worshipping the Lord in silence. 

[mari_et_pere]

Snacks and Roy, I agree with ya!

Matt

[carol70]

Great thread!

Good point. I recall the pastor saying to the congregation - how can anyone just sit there and not be excited about praising the Lord.Let us a give the Lord a huge hand clap. The whole church went bananas and I just sat there. He was obviously talking about me indirectly. Just because I don't dance and shout and say a bunch of amens I am not into it. I was worshipping the Lord in silence. 

I used to sit in church silently too.  I always felt odd when everyone else around me was shouting.  I mean, why were they shouting?  I will admit, one day last week I was overcome by emotion while talking to God and sitting in my car, but honestly, I think I was having a mini-breakdown at the time. 

As for the youth group singing and feeling the presence of God in church, sometimes I have heard a voice so beautiful that I get shivers and hearing a voice like that, it feels like a gift from God.  Maybe that's what they felt.

[mrsnacks]

When Jesus taught and preached, can you really picture a bunch of believers jumping up and down and saying amen ? Dancing in the streets and hollering "Come on Teacher" and raising their hands . It is not that I am condemning that behavior or outburst but it just seems out of place. Like a sports rally. Why isn't there one Jesus film that shows that pentecostal emotional display ? This is Jesus talking and not some pastor out of Bible school. And then what gets me is you hear the speaking in tongues with no interpretation. Like the preacher will say a few phrases in tongues out of emotion and I am sitting here going - what the heck was that  ? What did he mean by that ? 

[skydreamers]

And then what gets me is you hear the speaking in tongues with no interpretation. Like the preacher will say a few phrases in tongues out of emotion and I am sitting here going - what the heck was that  ? What did he mean by that ?

Totally!  I saw some videos a while back of Kenneth Copeland and some other "famous" preacher, and they were supposedly overcome with "holy laughter", it was the most hysterical creepy laughter I've ever heard.  Then they were barking like dogs on the floor, and of course, blabbering in jibberish.  It scared the heebie jeebies out of me!  The whole audience was getting into it...and I thought, what would a non-believer think if he stumbled on a scene like that....he'd think these people were stark raving mad!!!  How does this edify believers, or glorify God?? 

Absolutely bizarre displays of the flesh!

Peace,
Diana

[Ward]

Here's a thought that automatically comes to my mind on this:

Maybe the word " annoyed " is too strong of a word but I admit when explaining the  truths to someone  - I tend to get impatient and desire for them to see what I see because God has revealed it to me.

Maybe you have been given to have love for your neighbor...  You want very much for them to receive the gift that you have been given because you've experienced it yourself.  The gift of eyes that see, ears that hear, and a heart to understand.  You want very much to give that gift, too.  That is Love...

The "annoyance" we feel is probably a mixture of the Love I mentioned with something else, too.  But I believe its bases comes from Love.  For many of us, it is also God reinforcing within each of us the lesson that only he can drag us to him and open our eyes, ears and heart.

It is Love...

Thoughts?  Comments? 

\/\/ard

[dogcombat]

From 1 Corinthians 1  Paul writes

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

 29 That NO flesh should glory in his presence.

The annoyance probably springs from God's discerning spirit that the last verse here about NO flesh glorying in His presence.  Much of what goes on is sadly the flesh of people expressing themselves or rather "showing out".  Not always, but when you see such mannerisms and cringe.  That, to me, is why we get annoyed because of the immaturity that is encouraged in Bablyon.

Ches

[GODSown1]

Yes! lol!,
          U put it Xactly right mrsnacks, annoying! lol! But! I cant xsplain it eitha bcoz 2 me its jus so plain 2 c, & all dey do is try 2 put other ideas 2 dis & d@ lol! I so no wot ur sayn lol!, But! its jus in us 2 feel like we do, But! yep jus nO GOD is in Control, AlwayZ!!.
           muchLOVE!! Pera

ps. yea! Roy I nO where ur cumin frm az well dude, Ive led a few 2 & now Im like um!.. lol!, Lets jus Trust in GOD brother, takecaRe! Peace!