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Author Topic: Worship/song services  (Read 11193 times)

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YellowStone

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2007, 02:14:11 PM »

Quote
Ok Darren as it is but I also think "how can a man put fire to his bosom and not get burned?

I guess it comes down to whom to do you love more?

as for me I will NOT enter into such a place because its a killing field of Gods truths.

As for fear what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Why should your spouse stop going if you still are?

Randy

A man cannot put fire on his bosom and not get burned. I KNOW that  ;D

But I do know that the full armor of God will protect me from any fire that may come my way.

May I ask you from where God's elect came if not from the very killing fields you distain? Is it the building that represents these killing fields and while ever you keep away from it, one is safe? Sadly this is not the case, many, many people take the same garbage, lies and deceit with them when they leave the Church, perhaps to return next Sunday, or to never return. The plauges of the church are inescapable as a shadow; this is what we all MUST come out of.

I could no sooner go back to that line of thinking (had I come from it) than I could drive a truck through a crowded SuperMarket. Why couldn't I, because I do not have the will to do so, Gods will. Yet, I do not fear talking with such or sharing a meal with same; yet I have no desire to associate with them on a regular basis.

Your last question is unanswerable because neither my wife or I attend church. :)

Darren
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rk12201960

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2007, 02:15:35 PM »

The line is, Do you believe in what God says or do you believe in your own understanding.

Its a battle Line Rocky and many are killed and wounded, its the pains of taking up the cross.

It is with a sad heart that I hear you are leaving us for a time this  is the hardest thing we are called and chosen to do,  to follow Jesus.

My prays are with you as I hope yours are with us.
May God direct your ever step in this lesson on becoming as ONE with GOD.

Wisdom and peace to you Rocky.
Randy
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 02:17:57 PM by Randy »
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Prosizz

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2007, 02:16:23 PM »

Kat,

OK, I get the scriptures. Now does that include us here at the forum?
Even though in cyberland, we are also a congregation of believers therefore the church. Since we are reckoned as the church, is Satan throne then within us as well?

There is a different between physical and spiritual church and we at the forum are part of the physical church because we are a group of people gathered under one same belief and within us are the called and chosen as well as the called but not chosen. Just as it is in  any other church on earth.  So remember that even though the church is the throne of Satan, so the world is under his kingship yet we  are in of the world of course we are not part of it but we are in it. Jesus has an invisible church that worship from the synagogue above yet only jesus knows his own but as far as we are in the flesh, we love God we will be in the congregation of like minded people.





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mari_et_pere

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2007, 02:27:35 PM »

WOAH! Okay hang on....you all are making this thread so long that the mods are gonna shut it down before I can get involved in a thread that I started.  ;D

I've read through it but it's pretty involved so I may have missed a little here and there. I agree that the music leaders in church have a system down. They start upbeat and end with something slower to get people "in the mood" if you will. Does that mean the people in the congregation are sinning by trying to worship God? Don't you guys see that their God is our God??? The people may be going about it wrong (doesn't scripture say they will?) but are they purposely and willingly sinning?
 
One of you went so far as to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't work in people's hearts in church. Oh contrare! I've personally seen that! Where? Inside of myself! How could I have been called out without the Holy Spirit working in me to move me out?

But anyway, this sure became an interesting thread. I'm a bit disappointed in the reaction (harsh judgements wether direct or indirect) but interesting for sure.

Matt
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rk12201960

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2007, 02:27:53 PM »

whew, can somebody get me a glass of water? lol

Hi Prosizz,
This is not a place of worship. There is no day on which you have to attend.
Yes there are wolves here but it isn't a church of god or kingdom hall etc....
Last I seen there where 333 members here and I guess compared to the whole world that's not even a drop so yup I guess we are the few the chosen the ELECT.

KIS don't try to split hairs.
Peace and Wisdom to all.
Randy
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 02:37:49 PM by Randy »
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skydreamers

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2007, 02:32:28 PM »

Quote
Where is the line?  where is the line?
Personally I think I will be "coming out of her" all the days of my life.  I don't think there is a time we are out completely and that's it, we're done with Babylon, it's behind us.  That is, not while we are in the flesh.  To me, Babylon is so much more than just a church system.  Not all of us grew up in a church.  I spent my whole life seeking for truth in all sorts of strange places, and God still shockingly reveals the islands, mountains, trees and grass to me that have had their tentacles in me since times before I became a Christian.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

All these things take a lifetime. We’re going to live “the seals”. A third part of the men died: that’s a third part of the man in us that is going to die. A third part of the carnality. God works in increments, you see. He wipes out some of the trees, and then He burns the grass…what is the trees and the grass? These are all things in us. We have islands, and mountains, and trees, and grass. All of these are belief systems and ideas and doctrines and philosophies of life and all these things. And they are all going to be burned out and broken down and destroyed. All of those seven seals, seven trumpets, seven plagues: they are all things that must happen in our lives.

Peace,
Diana

(Rocky, I hope you won't stay away too long.... ;))
 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 02:35:17 PM by skydreamers »
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Prosizz

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2007, 03:05:43 PM »

Oh sure Randy, this is a place of worship. Perhaps you have a different definition of worship than I do but beleive me if you please, this sure is a place of worship.

I come here to learn, to be admonished and to be encouraged in my walk with Christ. The time spent here is part of my worship to the lord. Worship does just consist of sing, or being in a building somewhere with people prostating oneself on the floor or in some trance. Believers are the church and and we, every single one of us, are the temple of the spirit. Therefore all I do day in and day out is part of my worship to the Lord. The only question is what type of worship I have, a carnal one or spiritual one but make no mistake, this sure a place of worship.
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Kat

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2007, 04:08:42 PM »


Maybe if we look at this portion of Ray's article no. 10 'WHERE IS THE CHURCH THAT JESUS BUILT?' it will help our understanding on this.

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html --------------------------------------------------------------

"THE" CHURCH VS. "MY" CHURCH

During Jesus’ ministry, He spoke of "the" church and "My" church. There already existed "the church" (Matt. 18:17), at the very time that Jesus said He would build "MY CHURCH" (Matt. 16:18). For fifteen centuries God established Israel as a church:

"This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, ‘A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear.’ This is HE, that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness with the angel which spoke to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers WOULD NOT OBEY, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt" (Acts 7:37-39).

DEFINING "CHURCH"

Just what is a "church?" Strong’s Greek Dictionary, #1570. ekklesia, a calling out. (1b) Ekklesia, from ek, "out of," and klesis, "a calling…" So the church is those whom God has CALLED OUT to be His "called out ones," hence, Jesus said, "So the last shall be first, and the first shall be last [sorry, don’t have time to explain this unique statement of our Lord]: for many be called, but few chosen." I will take the time to explain this second statement, however.

Notice that the "called" and the "chosen" cannot be the same group, as one is "many" and the other is "few." God has given us a general statement as to whom He has called and whom He has not called. We already know the number of those called is "many." Now we will see the two general classifications of those called:

A QUICK HISTORY OF THE CHURCH BEFORE REVELATION

Jesus Christ said,

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter [a movable stone], and upon this rock [Christ, the immovable boulder] I will build MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell [Greek: hades, the unseen realm of the dead] shall NOT prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).

What did Jesus mean that the "gates of hades would not prevail against it?" This word "prevail" was translated from the Greek word katischuo and it means, "to overpower." It is used but one other time in Scripture and here we shall see exactly what this word means:

"And they [the chief priests] were instant with loud voices, requiring that He [Jesus] might be crucified. And the voices of them of the chief priests prevailed… And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, there they CRUCIFIED Him…" (Luke 23:23 & 33).

The chief priests "prevailed" [katischuo] by putting Jesus Christ TO DEATH. But Jesus said that the "gates of hades [realm of the DEAD] will not prevail [katischuo] against it." In other words, His Church would NEVER be overpowered to death.

And so, the Church that Jesus Christ built is still around today.

On Pentecost, Jesus Christ came back to His disciples just as He said He would. He came back as the Comforter. Jesus said that they absolutely could NOT receive the Comforter until He went away. Why? Because Jesus Christ IS THE COMFORTER, but not in the flesh, but in THE SPIRIT!

It was on Pentecost that the first members of the Church of Christ received the Holy Spirit Comforter, just as He symbolized to them when He blew on them, showing that He Himself would come to them in spirit by the will of God. Now for the first time, His disciples were truly converted, baptized in Holy Spirit, possessing the mind of Christ, lead into all Truth (Jesus) by the Comforter—Jesus was NOW BUILDING HIS CHURCH!

"But the Comforter [Greek, parakletos, also called the Consoler, and in I John 2:1, Advocate in KJV, and Entreater in the CLNT] which IS the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).

The Advocate or Entreater in I John 2:1 IS the parakletos, The Comforter or Consoler of John 14:26 IS the parakletos,. and we are told that it is Jesus Christ Himself. Furthermore, the "Holy Spirit" that is said to come AS the Comforter is also Jesus Christ,

"Now the Lord IS that Spirit: and where the Spirit OF THE Lord [Jesus Christ] is, there is liberty" (II Cor. 3:17

PERSECUTION COMES QUICKLY

"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution" (II Tim. 3:11).

Those are the words of Paul, and he should know, HE WAS THE CHURCH’S BIGGEST PERSECUTOR!

"And Saul [Paul] was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was A GREAT PERSECUTION AGAINST THE CHURCH which was at Jerusalem, and they were ALL scattered abroad through the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles" (Acts 8:1).

And just who was behind this persecuting of the Church of God? Answer: The other Church of God that was also headquartered in Jerusalem!!!

"And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter [murder] against the disciples of the Lord [that would be Christ’s Church], went unto the HIGH PRIEST [of the OTHER Church of God, in the TEMPLE—remember back in Acts 2:46 where the Church of Christ was ‘continuing daily with one accord?’ Yes, that temple!]

And [Saul] desired of him LETTERS [letters of authorization from the highest level of God’s Church—the HIGH PRIEST] to Damascus…"

Letters for the purpose of continuing his persecution and slaughter of Christ’s New Church. I told you it is not pretty picture.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his OWN HOUSEHOLD" (Matt. 10:34-36).

Do you think that maybe a man’s foes could even be of his OWN CHURCH?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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mrsnacks

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2007, 04:12:08 PM »

Hi Skydreamers :

You interpret the trees and the grass as things in us. How did you come up with that interpretation and how do you know that it is the true meaning ? For example Hal Lindsey will say that the locusts mentioned in Revelation are helicopters. Locusts sound like miniature helicopters and have the faces of men when you can see into a helicopter. I am using this strange example I know. But one will say that is your interpretation. A third of men will die but you say a third of us as a man needs to die. It clearly says a third of "men" not man. Ray also says that the words God speaks to us are spirit - so does that mean the you can't take anything literal ?
Is it all symbols ? Thanks
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YellowStone

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2007, 04:49:42 PM »

Hi MrSnacks,

I shouldn't butt in but what the heck :)

Diana, only used what she as learned and applied it her own life.

She did kindly quote from where the words she used came:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

You ask, "does that mean the you can't take anything literal?" no, not at all. Christ did walk this Earth, die and was raised. If we do not believe then we deny Christ himself, and of what use is faith. I think Paul speaks of this somewhere.

Ray, himself speaks of the entire bible as being one big parable. Meaning of course that while some of it is literal, it is all symbolic or has a deeper meaning than may be immediately seen.

I hope this helps,
Darren
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 05:40:23 PM by YellowStone »
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skydreamers

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2007, 06:48:50 PM »

Thanks Darren, that was well said and my sentiments as well....

Mrsnacks, I do understand what you are saying about "interpretations".  However, sometimes I think we have to go with what rings true to us.  That portion I quoted of Ray's teaching really hit home with me.  And if you do word studies on these things (use e-sword, it's great) and pray for your eyes to be open, you can begin to see substantial scriptural evidence for what Ray has said.  (which really is a huge study onto itself). 

There may be some kind of literal end-time prophecy within revelation, but what interests and moves me more is how it applies to my spiritual life now....I am drawn to and earnestly seeking the spiritual meanings. 

Certainly I don't understand it all now.  But it's safe to say, I think, that the whole bible supports the idea that mankind is going through a process. 

And that was my point, it may seem off-topic to this thread, but I was trying to show that we are all of us here at this forum somewhere in this process...some have left the church system, some haven't. 

God is working with each of us to burn out the dross, whatever that may be in our lives. 

Satan is not just in the church, he's the god of this world.  I don't need to be in church to be sucked in by the enemy.  I know he is there, but I know he is outside of the Christian church system (I use to be involved with occult things).  If you want to avoid Satan, you might as well check out right now, because as far as I can see, Satan is a tool for discipline, and the disciplining doesn't end just because you've left a church system.

We are all susceptible of being given over to Satan at any time, for the destruction of the flesh:

you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 5:5
 

Peace,
Diana
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LittleBear

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2007, 11:23:25 PM »

Ok, in Rev. 18:4 it says, Come out of her My people

I take that to mean I was His person even though I was still in the church system. God calls us out, and calls us His people while we are IN the church. He shows us the corruption there and leads us out. He gives us eyes to see and we no longer want to be in that false system.

Rocky, please come back! We are all still a work in progress and are learning His ways as He shows us.

Ursula
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DuluthGA

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2007, 12:37:41 AM »

Hi Matt, interesting question.

My perspective is these church goers are believers [in Jesus Christ as the Son of God] and therefore must have some of God's Spirit in them.  Perhaps you have more of a measure of that Spirit, as I believe we here at BT do as we've been Given more spiritual understandings.  (We know according to John 3: 34 that God gave His Son His Spirit without measure.)

God knows you are not going there to partcipate in a vain physical act of worship; you are going there to support your family which is noble.  I think even mingling with the Churchianity community affords a great opportunity to spread the truths as we have come to know them, albeit subtly.

I would use the situation to place my handmade "Hello, BibleTruths.com" labels around the place, leave one in a pew or where someone will be sure to pick them up.  Sometimes I just walk up to people and hand them one with a smile.  [The labels are nature pictures with the website on the back.] 

You are not "fellowshipping" with these people per se.  So I definitely wouldn't give it too much negative thought.  I would go ahead and enjoy praising God in a reasonable manner for that moment. 

Take Care, Caregiver
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josh

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2007, 02:37:12 AM »

When one reads or speaks of "coming out" of the church... is one to take this literally, as to no longer set foot in a physical building? or associate with a particular physical group of people?

Or is this a spiritual command? To spiritually become detached from the carnal/fleshly doctrines associate with Babylon? Is this simply a state of spiritual maturity, a progression beyond settling for the milk and moving on to the true meat of the Word?

Is it a one time occurrence? or is it part of dying daily.... does it have an is, was and will be application?

Can one ever totally "come out" of Babylon while we are still in the flesh?

Or perhaps we are again facing another "parable"?

The truth of the matter is... it won't matter how long this thread becomes or how many people get involved or how many scriptures are quoted or how many quotes one may give from Ray's various articles, emails and letters... God has us all at different places, all looking at the same thing from different angles and through different lenses.

Perhaps we can all rest assured that God has us all exactly where He desires us to be at this very moment.

If I may, I would like to offer one more scripture to this discussion to be considered:

Luke 17:20-21 - Later, he was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he gave them this reply: "The kingdom of God never comes by watching for it. Men cannot say, 'Look, here it is', or 'there it is', for the kingdom of God is inside you."

What I see a great deal of in this thread, including my earlier post, is that we are attempting to apply the spiritual commands of the Word of God outwardly. We are failing to see that spiritual secrets of the Kingdom of God can only be seen when we apply them inwardly.

The entirety of the Word of God is happening within... and many will be left trying to figure out who are the "few" and who are the "many"... who are the "called" and who are the "chosen"...

Look inside... you will find them all.

God's Peace.
Josh

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Craig

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2007, 08:25:39 AM »

Thank you Josh, finally a post with wisdom and compassion.

I'm not sure anything else should be said.

Blessings
Craig
« Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 08:26:08 AM by Craig »
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iris

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2007, 10:28:24 AM »

Hi Josh,

I agree, that was a great post.
Thanks for sharing.

Iris
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mari_et_pere

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2007, 05:05:12 PM »

Josh, thank you! The spiritual is inside! Inside us! Not in a church, not outside of a church, but INSIDE of us, no matter what building we are in or out of! It's not in who's preaching to us or teaching us. It's in us, through God's word.

Your INWARD life reveals itself in the OUTWARD you and the ways you react to others. THINK ABOUT IT.

THINK ABOUT IT.

Matt
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hebrewroots98

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2007, 01:05:50 PM »

You hit the nail on the head Josh!

Now, to go a bit deeper...as I had posted yesterday on another thread (that should have been put on this thread...)  my question is this: when God says in 1Tim. 3.. that we "are to not eat with those whom have a form of Godliness, but who deny the power of God"...then aren't we commanded to not be around these kind of people since they are teaching lies regarding The Word?  I have struggled with this verse since HE tells us to stay away from certain people and to not even let them into your home nor to eat with them.  So, SHALL WE DISFELLOWSHIP people that we are around on a daily basis (including strong christians,  family relatives, coworkers, ?  I know that we are in the world and not OF the world, but, where is the line drawn when it comes to doing things with homeschool relationships? 
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mari_et_pere

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2007, 02:49:42 PM »

So what am I to do? I'm working 68 hours this week. You think even one person I work with believes remotely like we do? Heck no. What to do? Not look at anyone, nod when spoken to, give the shortest answer possible when needed, sit by myself at my break times and avoid eye contact etc etc etc.

WE'RE BETTER THAN THAT. Aren't we commanded to spread the good news? How? If we must avoid contact then it becomes impossible other than through written word. Could it be that we aren't to form as tight a bond with those folks as say, someone who doesn't deny the power of God?

Matt
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Worship/song services
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2007, 04:38:10 PM »

It is impossible not to come in contact with others, and why should we try to avoid it?

How can your light shine under a basket?

How can you be an example if you're hidden away?

I'm currently doing some contract work for a (decent) man who has both feet in the church. He personally knows some of the TBN preachers. I have no problem associating with him, but we are not (yet) brothers.

Dennis
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