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[Zade]

You're right, I didn't actually state the question, but I thought it was implied. There were two verses that appeared to contradict, and I was looking for someone to help me harmonize them. I think I understand now.

Many ARE called, but the Romans passage isn't talking about his regular callings. It's talking about a special calling, namely, the calling of those He predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. This is referred to in Matthew as being "chosen"

Is that right?


 

[Kat]

Hi Jade,

I glad you have joined us 

I think if you understand that there are a great many that are called, these would make up all whose confess that Jesus is the Lord.
But then you have a much smaller group that are the chosen to come to an understanding  of the truth.

2Th 2:13  But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

But there is a final requirement, and that is to be faithful to the end. 

Rev 17:14  These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."

I hope this helps.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Beloved]

Zade I think I understand what you are asking but I am not sure I understand your use of the word calling (especially regular and special)

I really did not see the confusion because the way I saw it ....the chosen were called before they were actually chosen. You have to be on the team before you can picked to be a designated pitcher.   These were 'picked' at the time of creation that they would first to be conformed to the image of His son because the plan was that others would follow
 
(Rom 8:29 KJVR)  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

(Rom 8:30 KJVR)  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

In the long run the many called and the chose will be ALL in ALL and God will be glorified by these two groups. , In doing so they too will be glorified since while on earth they had been justified by the Faith of Christ.

The unsaved are not mentioned in this passage but we know that all will bow at the hearing of His name.

Rom 5:6  For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 14:9  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Perhaps I am still misssing the point but I hope this helps


Beloved

[skydreamers]

Hi Zade,

Many ARE called, but the Romans passage isn't talking about his regular callings. It's talking about a special calling, namely, the calling of those He predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. This is referred to in Matthew as being "chosen"

Is that right?

Yes, that how I see it also.

Peace,
Diana

[seminole]

I just don't get it with this topic. Some new person came on and was talked down to; "read Ray's papers and then see what is right" or something like that??? Then the part about the forum not representing the views or whatever of Ray Smith and there are rules. We know there are rules. The forum does represent what Ray teaches because that is what you are allowed to talk about. What you learn from what he writes. It's not so hard to get that Jesus came, died for our sins, God calls us to repentance and acceptance of the sacrifice of His Son so we do or we turn our backs on God. Right?

[Kat]

Hi seminole,

It's not so hard to get that Jesus came, died for our sins, God calls us to repentance and acceptance of the sacrifice of His Son so we do or we turn our backs on God. Right?

This is the teaching from the church, that you accept or reject God of your own free will.  Not what we believe here, Man has no free will, he is dragged to Christ by the Father.

Joh 6:44  No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws(drags) him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part A
http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html

The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part B
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-B.html

The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part C
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html

The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part D
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[seminole]

I know that no one comes to repentance and acceptance without the Holy Spirit drawing them . That is no issue for me. There is a "call", "drawing", "tugging" , "pulling" of the Holy Spirit. They are all words however you choose to put it

[carol70]

Seminole,

For me, being called out has opened up this insatiable desire in me to learn everything I can about God, his Word, and his Will, his TRUTH, not more heresy.  I think it's important to understand the details, as best as God allows us to, to develop a discerning spirit, so that we can keep from being easily deceived. 

Proverbs 15:14 The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly.

Proverbs 18:15 The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out.

Isaiah 48:6 You have heard these things; look at them all. Will you not admit them? "From now on I will tell you of new things, of hidden things unknown to you.

Jeremiah 33:3 'Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.'

I think all of the topics presented here represent a godly desire for more knowledge and truth.

Love and peace,
Carol

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Seminole

Its me again. 

I will comment on your post in blue. You say:

I just don't get it with this topic.

Well that is evident because you take the topic to a entirely different discussion being.....

Some new person came on and was talked down to; "read Ray's papers

EXCUSE ME! Being DIRECTED TO STUDY RAYS PAPERS IS A PUT DOWN!!!!!! WOW!!!! So WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RAY? Seminole it is a PRIVILAGE and SHORT CUT TO UNDERSTANDING to have ANYONE here point you to a teaching that Ray reveals for our edification!!!

and then see what is right" or something like that???

Well I guess that just shows the LOVE we have towards those who are seeking to understand. We all know that understanding comes from the Spirit of Christ but to hope that a brother and sister be blessed to see and comprehend is a desire of the heart for others to come to the freedom in comprehensive insight that we have arrived at! It is not arrogance but love and the desire to share in that wisdom and joy!

Then the part about the forum not representing the views or whatever of Ray Smith

Yes. There are definitely some posts that come on the Forum that DO NOT reflect what Ray teaches! That is precisely why the Forum exists! To allow us all to all exercise our spirits towards edification exhortation and encouragement!

 and there are rules. We know there are rules. The forum does represent what Ray teaches because that is what you are allowed to talk about

Now why does that last comment sound to me like we are being MARSHALED or we have some sort of odious CURFUE here in secret agenda working in the underground of this Forum. Well THERE IS NO SUCH THING! If you OR ANYONE comes in here with heresy or blasphemy some of us will see red and respond!

As for rules they are here for the protection of all and they are to keep wolves out or at least have their comments wired against biting anyone! I do not think anyone has bitten you Seminole but heresy can not stand up in this Forum. We as a group simply know too much truth to allow for it to go unchecked!

What you learn from what he writes.

Hey I for one have not learnt everything from what Ray writes. Many here will attest to the fact that when reading Rays teachings a second third and forth time....things not seen in earlier readings become clearer! How many times have you STUDIED Rays teachings and felt like you know it all? Well take it from me who thought I did know it all...THAT is a sure sign you have missed the plot!

 It's not so hard to get that Jesus came, died for our sins, God calls us to repentance and acceptance of the sacrifice of His Son so we do or we turn our backs on God. Right?

Wrong! You just missed the plot on the teaching on the Myth of Free Will! Try go figure that one again and perhaps you will not ever say that when GOD CALLS US TO REPENTANCE that we can ignore Him! When GOD calls NO ONE can ignore HIM! The point is that God Chooses and He decides who He will make into a vessel of honour and into a vessel of dishonor! Think about that for a few hundred hours and don't just toss away my advise and the sound direction given to you to believe that you have been put down. It took PRECIOUS TIME to write this to YOU!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[seminole]

Man , I am not speaking in disrespect of anybody here. I am simply saying what I believe. There is a whole society out here in trouble and Jesus could help all that's going on. I know we should study and read the Bible and if you think I don't ,well, you are wrong. I guess there are some who are "led to, dragged to, drawn to" study Greek and Hebrew but it is not me. Where I am we got kids getting raped and killed, women getting attacked all because of their race. The way I see it is if I can tell somebody about Jesus and they think about it even a little maybe they won't go out and shoot somebody else. It has been like a war zone here and Jesus is the answer to a lot of the problems. I went down to New Town the other day. I am not supposed to be in New Town because it's not in my "hood" but I went anyway. Just to try to bridge a little gap you know? I was standing in the middle of one group of one race and another group of another race. You think I was thinking" I wonder if I am saying this right according to greek, hebrew, whatever you use to do the word searches. Not a chance! I was only thinking " Jesus please intervene in this place so there will be no more blood shed on this day".

[Deborah-Leigh]

I hear you Seminole!

You say Jesus could help all that is going on. JESUS IS HELPING ALL THAT IS GOING ON. He is helping it to GO ON. It is part of the plan!

So you want crime to stop. You want disease to stop. You want peace to reign and you want Jesus to do it because He can. IT WILL happen Seminole after we have seen the full face of evil that results from our foolishness THEN we will all be corrected, brought to repent and then saved. Things are not going to get better they are GOING TO GET WORSE and that is a Scriptural FACT. Things are going to get a lot worse and when they are at the worst they can get...and for the sake of the few elect....Jesus will return and no sooner! That is the plan and the Word of God.

For this we are told to look up above the troubles of our land and know that our Redeemer is coming!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[seminole]

Well , thanks for the slap in the face. It will be as God will have it be until time stops but that don't mean I have to sit on my hands without trying to help someone. Do you not think God allows me to help somebody else. When I read the part about some new person who said they had read Ray's papers but still had questions, they were directed to read it over like
they didn't have the ability to understand it. If there is topics here that don't have to do with Ray's writings I guess I missed it. marshaled??? I don't think so unless that is what you call the rules. You tell me you won't stand for heresy? Tell me what was heretical? Think about this for a few hundred hours? What's up with that? If you think I am a heretic because I say what is on my mind then that is what you think. I did the "clubhouse" thing at one time in my life when I tried to do and think like somebody else thought I should but I got a lot of miles on me now and am too old to try to be whatever or think what you or anybody else thinks I should .

[lilitalienboi16]

I hear you Seminole!

You say Jesus could help all that is going on. JESUS IS HELPING ALL THAT IS GOING ON. He is helping it to GO ON. It is part of the plan!

So you want crime to stop. You want disease to stop. You want peace to reign and you want Jesus to do it because He can. IT WILL happen Seminole after we have seen the full face of evil that results from our foolishness THEN we will all be corrected, brought to repent and then saved. Things are not going to get better they are GOING TO GET WORSE and that is a Scriptural FACT. Things are going to get a lot worse and when they are at the worst they can get...and for the sake of the few elect....Jesus will return and no sooner! That is the plan and the Word of God.

For this we are told to look up above the troubles of our land and know that our Redeemer is coming!

Peace to you

Arcturus

Wow arcturus, very nicely put, i dont think i could hvae said that better!

Welcome btw, to the new comer, hope you stick around, read, pray, and grow in the Lord =]

Love to you all,

Alex

[gmik]

Goodness!!  I just reread this thread entirely!  Actually there are a lot of good stuff in here.  Be teachable people-it is OK to not get it and then someone explains it.  Yes.  We all have to go back and re read Ray's papers.

Seminole.  I believe you are correct about not sitting on your hands when you could do something.  A believer is to help those less fortunate.  But do know that evil is a part of Gods plan! Yes, it seems awful that innocent children are harmed.  But if you can help then you are also part of His plan.  This life isn't the REAL deal.  The NEXT one is!  We can't even IMAGINE what it will be like.  But EVERYONE will be so happy to be there, that the troubles
in the present age will fade.

On to something else.
The called, who will be judging in the LOF, are really the only set apart ones.  Aren't the rest of the  believers really no different than a non believer or one who has never heard??  In that, all of us will face the Lamb and the LOF??

MG-  Thank you for sharing that and for coming back.  Seminole and newbies-Go read some of MG's testimonies.  Her wisdom comes from real life!

[Deborah-Leigh]

Go for it Seminole!

You ask :  Think about this for a few hundred hours? What's up with that?

There is nothing more valuable to be thinking about than what God is SAYING and TEACHING. That is what is up with that!

Arcturus

[Deborah-Leigh]

Thank you Lord for brothers like Falconn003!

Oh by the way Seminole....your post shows that you perceived injury ...you say "thanks for the slap in the face"....where there was non!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[indianabob]

Well , thanks for the slap in the face. It will be as God will have it be until time stops but that don't mean I have to sit on my hands without trying to help someone. Do you not think God allows me to help somebody else.
= = = =
Seminole:
I think that I can feel your concern for others who are in trouble.  I have had to deal with that feeling many years in the past and it is troubling and frustrating for most.

Please consider that in this age, Jesus Messiah is dealing with the few, the chosen and not with the masses.
If you had not gone down town to the area where you said you shouldn't be, the situation would have been just as bad as if you did go there. You're not going to change it.  Jesus is usually not going to intervene in such areas even though we pray for some deliverance for them.  His purpose at this time is to train us.  His purpose is to observe how we respond to the needs of others and to see if we will show care and concern, just as you are. 

He is working with and working on our personal character development.  He is a tough coach but he is also tender with those he is training because he knows our frame and will not test us or try us beyond what we are able to endure, WITH HIS HELP.  This is all about training the pioneers who will assist Jesus to usher in the new age.  He doesn't need us so much as he is allowing us to participate in the new age because Jesus has a heart to share.  God can make followers from the stones if that was His purpose; to have lots of followers to exhalt Himself.  But that is not God's character, God is allowing us, the little ones, the meek and humble ones, to share in His great work.
BUT, we are not ready yet.  We need a lot of training and correction and testing and purifying in the spiritual fire of God.

For one thing, we need to learn to communicate with love 100 percent of the time.  We need to learn to chose our words and make them fit the situation.  We are all in elementary school and have a lot to learn and the first thing and the most important in my view is to seek unity in Christ.

It is o.k. to stumble and do our best, after all we are just little kids compared to what we will become, so let's all consider the blessings we have been offered just to have real friends and to have the opportunity to share our thoughts with others who love God.  We are not alone, God is with us, we have direct access to God through our savior and we need this 'love' connection more than we need to get it right every time.

Love and hugs to one and all.
OLD indianabob.   (smooch, smooch) both cheeks.

[Deborah-Leigh]

That post was so FINE Indianabob and a real blessing!

Thank you!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[seminole]

IndianaBob, you seem real sincere. I like what you said and the way you said it. No offense here brother. I feel you. I got to tell you it's hard to explain how it is here. I didn't go to downtown. We have got different gangs all around us. Nobody is allowed downtown on foot after 9:00 p.m. That is where the restaurants and stuff is. New Town is what we call the border area of each hood. I mean  I guess you could call it neighborhood. You don't want to cross the borders really unless the gangs know you mean no harm like calling the law on them. You can get to a place of intermingling without being in a gang but they got to know you first. Believe it or not I have been able to cross the lines in different hoods taking food and clothes to kids and stuff. That is what I mean by making a difference. Maybe it's not a big difference but a little is better than none. Thanks man, I appreciate the way you responded.

[indianabob]

Seminole my brother,

Thank you for the thoughtful and gracious reply.
Keep up the good work and please don't tire of well doing.
You are on the right path and I'm convinced that you will finish the race.
So, take it easy on yourself, you're doing fine.

Warm regards, Bob