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A question of NT emphasis

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Tom:
I have been carefully studying the theme of Universal Reconciliation, both in L. Ray Smith's writings, and Gary Amirault's writings, as well as many others, and I have a few questions for those who write here.  I'll preface my comments with saying this, while I have some reservations on this theme, my questions are not borne of some desire to argue, debate, or wrangle with anyone.  They are serious and genuine questions.  I hope they will be received as such.  I'm new here...

I've carefully considered all the word studies surrounding Olam, Aionios, judgment, the lake of fire, and Gehenna, and I'm concerned with a few conclusions, but my mind is not set in stone.  Having studied and taught the original languages has given me a unique opportunity to research these words, and in many cases I'm very supportive of the insights I see in the UR writings, but in some cases I wrestle with whether word meanings have been a bit stretched to support emphases I don't see clearly referenced in the scriptures.

While I too question the "endless" nature of future judgments, based on these words and themes, where I'm unsettled is the "apparent emphasis" of both OT and NT scriptures as relates to these themes.

I understand that fire is often symbolic of purification, and judgment often leads to growth and maturity, but it seems that saying these two themes "always" lead in these directions seems to miss the emphasis in scripture.

When both OT and NT writers write of these themes, if they clearly had a positive and hope filled view of the ages to come, why do they, when discussing judgment, not express their optimism towards positive and redemptive outcomes?  In other words, it seems they consistently miss their logical opportunities to present a salvational view of the coming ages, in the sense of describing "how" the judgments and fires will bring forth a saved company of redeemed ones.  Why do you think they fail to "clearly" discuss such an optimistic viewpoint?

If the writers of scripture truly believed that souls would be redeemed through the judgment process, why don't we see them coming right out and saying this?  Why don't we see them emphasizing or describing anyone having come through the fires of judgment and out the other side saved and praising God?

Why does it appear that their emphasis is on the fearfulness of judgments, the awesomeness of His holiness confronting the sinful rejection of man, rather than emphasizing the hope of those who leave this life unsaved being saved through the process of judgment?  Why do they seem to leave an impression of the finality of man's decisions towards rejection of Christ in this life?  If they didn't think of these decisions as indeed "final" why do you think they left the impression that they did?

I'd love to get this resolved in my mind, but I'm genuinely stuck at this point.

I'd appreciate knowing how some of you have worked through this issue of "emphasis."

Thanks!
Tom

Deborah-Leigh:

Hello Tom

Welcome to the Forum and your first post. ;D 8)

For the first 500 years aprox after the death of Christ, the preaching and teaching was on the saving of all mankind as in Universalism, as I understand the progression of teachings.

As Paul prophesied, the corruption and the wolves would enter the sheep fold and things would progressively get rough and become so wicked that at the finale, Christ projected that there would be very little faith when He returns. Christ indicated that it would be parallel to the times of Noah when wickedness pervaded all the earth and only 8 people were saved from the flood. that is how bad apostasy will become.

So everything is on track according to the scriptures!

I too studied Gary Amiraults writings for a while until I found some errors....some grey areas and some places in his writing that I could not settle in my heart. So I abandoned reading his very well written articles because I preferred to stay with the ease and clarity with which Ray is inspired.

Others have also written on Universalism and I must say, they too fall into the same class in which I place Amirault......! This is of course just my own personal observation. You may need to continue to seek and compare teachings. Only HIS (Christ Jesus) SPIRIT can give understanding. Hope you receive what you are seeking soon. His will be done!

peace be to you in your studies.

Arcturus :)

Tom:
Hi Arcturus,

Thanks for the welcome.

I agree that the writings of those after the times of the apostles appear to support UR, but I'm still curious as to why you think Paul, and the other NT writers emphasized the seriousness, finality, and lack of hope, in the judgments of God upon those rejecting Christ and dieing in this condition, if in fact they believed they had hope for redemption after death?

Deborah-Leigh:


Hello Tom

I believe you have been influenced by erroneous interpretations!  ;D

Paul grieved for the suffering and the blindness and the lostness that would occur. He warned exhorted and encouraged throughout his teachings. This was not unlike Jesus who cried for those who He would have taken under His wings like a mother hen but they would not have Him. These were things to experience that are the ways of God bringing us to know good from evil. Just because it ends in the glory and joy that Paul knew and wrote about being so much MORE than any sufferings that were temporary, did not mean that either Paul or Jesus were impervious to the pain. To be so would be to extend this thought up to God the Father and to think that He was impervious to the pain Jesus suffered which would be blasphemy and denial of knowing God is LOVE.


Peace be to you

Arcturus :)

Tom:
Hi Arcturus,

You write: "I believe you have been influenced by erroneous interpretations!"

I can't imagine that you would be wrong about that.  Living in a body with a soul that has been twisted by sin, but is being, and will one day be fully redeemed, I'm sure I still embrace erroneous interpretations, but it certainly is my desire to move beyond those into all truth.  This is why I'm engaging you in this discussion.  I appreciate your concern...

If you could point me to one more scriptures, where NT writers describe or emphasize a hope for redemption at the conclusion of coming ages of judgment, I would really appreciate it.  I'm at a loss to find them.  I see plenty on awesome and scary finality, but I don't see any that imply a soul will be redeemed at the conclusion of a process of refining and purification.  Can you point me to some?

Blessings...
Tom

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