Flesh that profits nothing?

[Chris R]

Welcome to your new forum!

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth
nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are
spirit, and [they] are life. [John 6:63]


Does our flesh profit nothing?  Was the design of mans physical body and his experiences to mean nothing?

Why do we read in  Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is
become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Doesnt scripture clearly state that the very experience of good and evil is necessary in being "created" in the image of God himself?

But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God
meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. [Gen 50:20]

God means for us to experience evil, and does so for our good. doesnt this "profit us?"

What do you think? I hadnt understood [John 6:63] but E-mailed Ray Smith this question.  Let me know your thoughts, i will post Rays reply later in the thread.

Peace to you all

Chris R

[Timothy]

Paul says in Galations 2:20
I am crucified with4957 Christ:5547 nevertheless1161 I live;2198 yet not3765 I,1473 but1161 Christ5547 liveth2198 in1722 me:1698 and1161 the life which3739 I now3568 live2198 in1722 the flesh4561 I live2198 by1722 the faith4102 of(3588) the3588 Son5207 of God,2316 who loved25 me,3165 and2532 gave3860 himself1438 for5228 me.1700

The first death that we must experience before we qualify for the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6  Blessed3107 and2532 holy40 is he that hath2192 part3313 in1722 the3588 first4413 resurrection:386 on1909 such5130 the3588 second1208 death2288 hath2192 no3756 power,1849 but235 they shall be2071 priests2409 of God2316 and2532 of Christ,5547 and2532 shall reign936 with3326 him846 a thousand5507 years.2094

Rom 8:9  But1161 ye5210 are2075 not3756 in1722 the flesh,4561 but235 in1722 the Spirit,4151 if so be that1512 the Spirit4151 of God2316 dwell3611 in1722 you.5213 Now1161 if any man1536 have2192 not3756 the Spirit4151 of Christ,5547 he3778 is2076 none3756 of his.848

By grace (chastisement) are we saved through faith.Eph 2:8  For1063 by grace5485 are2075 ye saved4982 through1223 faith;4102 and2532 that5124 not3756 of1537 yourselves:5216 it is the3588 gift1435 of God:2316
The fulness of truth (Christ), the Spirit of God and the experience of evil is what the Lord uses to mature His sons and daughters.

Heb 6:1  Therefore1352 leaving863 the3588 principles746 of the3588 doctrine3056 of Christ,5547 let us go on5342 unto1909 perfection;5047 not3361 laying2598 again3825 the foundation2310 of repentance3341  from575 dead3498 works,2041 and2532 of faith4102 toward19096 God.
Because you have had your senses exercised to know both good and evil;the first step to "becoming like God"
Gen 3:22  And the LORD3068 God430 said,559 Behold,2005 the man120 is become1961 as one259 of4480 us, to know3045 good2896 and evil:7451 and now,6258 lest6435 he put forth7971 his hand,3027 and take3947 also1571 of the tree4480, 6086 of life,2416 and eat,398 and live2425 forever:5769
Heb 5:12  For1063 when2532 for1223 the3588 time5550 ye ought3784 to be1511 teachers,1320 ye have2192 need5532 that one teach1321 you5209 again3825 which5101 be the3588 first746 principles4747 of the3588 oracles3051 of God;2316 and2532 are become1096 such as have2192 need5532 of milk,1051 and2532 not3756 of strong meat.4731, 5160
Heb 5:13  For1063 every one3956 that useth3348 milk1051 is unskillfull552 in the word3056 of righteousness:1343 for1063 he is2076 a babe.3516
Heb 5:14  But1161 strong meat4731, 5160 belongeth2076 to them that are of full age,5046 even those who by reason of1223 use1838 have2192 their senses145 exercised1128 to4314 discern1253 both5037 good2570 and2532 evil.2556
Now recieve strong meat,  says Paul in the previous verse, but is just recieving the knowledge of "leaving the principals of the doctrine of Christ" and going on to maturity pleasing to God. No way! As a matter of fact scripture says it profits nothing --------
1Co 13:2  And2532 though1437 I have2192 the gift of prophecy,4394 and2532 understand1492 all3956 mysteries,3466 and2532 all3956 knowledge;1108 and2532 though1437 I have2192 all3956 faith,4102 so that5620 I could remove3179 mountains,3735 and1161 have2192 not3361 charity,26 I am1510 nothing.3762
As a matter of fact scripture shows that it can be a curse to many that have it.  Knowledge1108 puffeth up,5448 but1161 charity26 edifieth.361(1Cor.8-1b)
With the abundance of revelation given to Paul,he was also given a thorn to protect him from getting puffed up.
2Co 12:7  And2532 lest3363 I should be exalted above measure5229 through the3588 abundance5236 of the3588 revelations,602 there was given1325 to me3427 a thorn4647 in the3588 flesh,4561 the messenger32 of Satan4566 to2443 buffet2852 me,3165 lest3363 I should be exalted above measure.5229
2Co 12:8  For5228 this thing5127 I besought3870 the3588 Lord2962 thrice,5151 that2443 it might depart868 from575 me.1700
2Co 12:9  And2532 he said2046 unto me,3427 My3450 grace5485 is sufficient714 for thee:4671 for1063 my3450 strength1411 is made perfect5048 in1722 weakness.769 Most gladly2236 therefore3767 will I rather3123 glory2744 in1722 my3450 infirmities,769 that2443 the3588 power1411 of Christ5547 may rest1981 upon1909 me.1691
2Co 12:10  Therefore1352 I take pleasure2106 in1722 infirmities,769 in1722 reproaches,5196 in1722 necessities,318 in1722 persecutions,1375 in1722 distresses4730 for Christ's sake:5228, 5547 for1063 when3752 I am weak,770 then5119 am1510 I strong.1415
Bottom line God is love and that is what we must learn and become.
Yes, 08 Knowledge1108 puffeth up,5448 but1161 charity26 edifieth.3618

Mat 25:15  And2532 unto one3739, 3303 he gave1325 five4002 talents,5007 to(1161) another3739 two,1417 and1161 to another3739 one;1520 to every man1538 according2596 to his several2398 ability;1411 and2532 straightway2112 took his journey.589
Any talent that we have is a GIFT and we should never exalt ourselves over others. The talent we have is given by God and He will judge us by what we do with what we where given.

In closing : Nothing is of us and all is of God. From the greatest blessing to the biggest disasterous desructive happening all is of the Lord.
Eph 1:11  In1722 whom3739 also2532 we have obtained an inheritance,2820 being predestinated4309 according2596 to the purpose4286 of him who worketh1754 all things3956 after2596 the3588 counsel1012 of his own848 will:2307
Phi 2:13  For1063 it is2076 God2316 which worketh1754 in1722 you5213 both2532 to will2309 and2532 to do1754 of his5228 good pleasure.2107


I do believe scripture clearly shows us that God consistantly uses evil and the the master tool satan He created to carry and accomplish its purpose in bringing us into completion.

Pro 16:1  The preparations4633 of the heart3820 in man,120 and the answer4617 of the tongue,3956 is from the LORD.4480, 3068
Pro 20:24  Man's1397 goings4703 are of the LORD;4480, 3068 how4100 can a man120 then understand995 his own way?1870
Eph 2:10  For1063 we are2070 his846 workmanship,4161 created2936 in1722 Christ5547 Jesus2424 unto1909 good18 works,2041 which3739 God2316 hath before ordained4282 that2443 we should walk4043 in1722 them
Ecc 3:1  To every3605 thing there is a season,2165 and a time6256 to every3605 purpose2656 under8478 the heaven:8064
Ecc 3:2  A time6256 to be born,3205 and a time6256 to die;4191 a time6256 to plant,5193 and a time6256 to pluck up6131 that which is planted;5193
Ecc 3:3  A time6256 to kill,2026 and a time6256 to heal;7495 a time6256 to break down,6555 and a time6256 to build up;1129
Ecc 3:4  A time6256 to weep,1058 and a time6256 to laugh;7832 a time6256 to mourn,5594 and a time6256 to dance;7540
Ecc 3:5  A time6256 to cast away7993 stones,68 and a time6256 to gather stones together;3664, 68 a time6256 to embrace,2263 and a time6256 to refrain7368 from embracing;4480, 2263
Ecc 3:6  A time6256 to get,1245 and a time6256 to lose;6 a time6256 to keep,8104 and a time6256 to cast away;7993
Ecc 3:7  A time6256 to rend,7167 and a time6256 to sew;8609 a time6256 to keep silence,2814 and a time6256 to speak;1696
Ecc 3:8  A time6256 to love,157 and a time6256 to hate;8130 a time6256 of war,4421 and a time6256 of peace.7965


Mat 4:1  Then5119 was Jesus2424 led up321 of5259 the3588 spirit4151 into1519 the3588 wilderness2048 to be tempted3985 of5259 the3588 devil.1228

And if Mathew 4:1 be the case then 1 John 4:17 is our witness:
Herein1722, 5129 is(3326) our2257 love26 made perfect,5048 that2443 we may have2192 boldness3954 in1722 the3588 day2250 of judgment:2920 because3754 as2531 he1565 is,2076 so2532 are2070 we2249 in1722 this5129 world.2889

     Keep enduring, Tim

[Brett]

Chris,

I know some answers, hope this will help.

Job 34:15 NASU
All flesh [mankind] would PERISH together, And man would return to dust.

God made Adam from dust in flesh with spoil/pervert in Genesis 2:7 & Jer. 18:4-6.  Flesh will “return to dustâ€? in Gen. 3:19. So, “fleshâ€? is not profit because of spoil/pervert and it will return to ground (dust).


So, Why “flesh� is no profit?

1 Corinthians 15:50 NKJV
Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.


Flesh and spiritual understand God’s words in different way. Flesh and spiritual do not have same understand together.

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 NASU
But a natural man [flesh] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him [flesh things and spirit things are not the same]; and he [flesh] CANNOT UNDERSTAND them [Spirit], because they [few are chosen Matt. 22:14] are spiritually appraised.

1 Corinthians 2:13 NKJV
These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL .

It does not say "spiritual things with flesh". For flesh is no profit and it will perish but spirit is much more profit and it will never perish.

But it is not the end, we will have new spiritual bodies 1 Cor. 15:42-44. That is good news! O:)

[hillsbororiver]

First of all I want to say I am very happy the site is up and running once again, I sorely missed it and the folks who frequent here. I must admit this has not been an easy week for me in many ways and I am sure that it has been one of those "flesh profit nothing" (but) the spirit quickeneth" periods that are better understood as time passes.

As to the topic presented; the answers posted above speak clearly and I would only add that yes, the spiritual lessons we learn here will do nothing to prevent the (our) flesh from returning to dust but will prepare us (spiritually) for the coming age. Our hope and focus is not with preserving or enhancing our natural state in the world, in our corruptable bodies but with the promise of our "incorruptable" bodies as we are with our Lord & Master Jesus, doing His work in the age to come.

Joe

[Dan]

Tim Brett and Joe,

those are excellent posts!!

Amen,amen and amen!

Dan

[Dan]

Jesus  stated something very very important in his testing in the wilderness.


Mat 4:4  But answering, He said, It has been written: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but on every Word going out of the mouth of God." Deut. 8:3


Man does not live by the flesh(carnal mind) but instead:


Man lives on every Word going from the mouth of God.



Jam 4:13  Come now, those saying, Today or tomorrow we will go into this city, and we will spend one year there, and we will trade and will make a profit.

Jam 4:15  Instead you should say, If the Lord wills, even we will live, and we will do anything;


Jam 4:16  but now you rejoice(take pride in) in your presumptions. All such rejoicing(taking credit for) is evil.


Man continually presumes to do things on his own free will. Yet he cannot do anything even live or die(exist) without God declaring it.


Oh the rest we have , when we are able to believe that God rules the hearts of men.

Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
you reign on earth just as you do in heaven.
You give us our daily bread, and forgive us our sins, just as we are required to forgive the sins of others.
You lead us into temptation and deliver us from evil.

Amen

[Chris R]

Hello all,

Thankyou so much for your responces, below is the letter I received from Ray.

Chris R


Dear Chris

Sometimes familiar words have a way of prejudicing our minds. In a Scripture such as these where our Lord states that "the flesh PROFITS nothing," and we feel immediately that, why sure it does, isn't that the whole purpose of our physical life, existence, and experience? To be PROFITED by the whole thing?  Yes, but that is not specifically what Jesus is stating.

Jesus did not say that there is no value to our physical experience. What He said was that the experience itself is NOT THE PROFIT ITSELF.

I am sure that most read this verse thinking Jesus said this: "...the flesh PRODUCES nothing." As though nothing valuable comes out of our experience in the flesh, when that is deciedly not what Jesus is saying.


The word translated "profits" is from the Greek word "apheleo" and has a primary meaning of "BENEFIT."  It is virtually allways translated with a negative connotation:

"what is a man PROFITED, if he gain the whole world..." (Matt. 16:26

"Pilate sat that he could PREVAIL nothing..." (Matt. 27:24).

"and was nothing BETTERED, but rather..." (Mark 5:26).

"...the flesh PROFITS nothing...." (John 6:63).

"Perceive you how you PREVAIL nothing.." (John 12:19).

"For what is a man ADVANTAGED...." (Luke 9:25).

"...it PROFITS me nothing..." (I Cor. 13:3).

"...the word preached did not PROFIT them" (Heb. 4:2).

"...which did not PROFIT them...." (Heb. 13:9).

Next notice that even Christ Himself does not profit some:

"Christ shall PROFIT you nothing...." (Gal. 5:2).

And so what Jesus is clearly stating here is that the FLESH (or any of the other things mentioned above including Christ Himself),  are not in and by themselves a BENEFIT (profit) to us until others facts PRODUCE those BENEFITS.

This is why Jesus asked: "What is a man PROFITED if he shall gain the whole world [lost of flesh], and lose his own soul?" (Matt. 16:25).

There is no PROFIT/BENEFIT in the flesh itself, only what comes OUT OF IT.  And once you are OUT OF IT (as out of the world), the world is of NO profit/benefit to you.

Maybe our biggest spiritual example of this is: "Come OUT of her, My people...." (Rev. 18:4).  If there is "profit" to be had from being IN Babylon, then perhaps we should all go BACK IN?  No, Babylon is about as fleshly and worldly as anything could ever be, and Babylon BENEFITS NOTHING, so "Come OUT OF HER My people...." The BENEFITS are IN CHRIST, OUT OF Babylon, out of the flesh and the world.

Hope this helps your understanding,

God be with you,

Ray

[roperfam]

The flesh has one use (profit), to administer death.  

In regards to administering life, it profiteth nothing.  Only through the spirit, and the resurrected life of Christ can life be given.  

(Mar 8:36)  for what shall it profit a man, if he may gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

(Joh 6:63)  the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;

(Rom 2:25)  For circumcision, indeed, doth profit, if law thou mayest practise, but if a transgressor of law thou mayest be, thy circumcision hath become uncircumcision.  (the law empoweres sin, and the sting of death is sin)

(Rom 3:1)  What, then, is the superiority of the Jew? or what the profit of the circumcision?

(1Co 12:7)  And to each hath been given the manifestation of the Spirit for profit;

(Gal 5:2)  lo, I Paul do say to you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing;

(1Ti 4:  for the bodily exercise is unto little profit, and the piety is to all things profitable, a promise having of the life that now is, and of that which is coming;

(Phm 1:20)  Yes, brother, may I have profit of thee in the Lord; refresh my bowels in the Lord;

(Heb 4:2)  for we also are having good news proclaimed, even as they, but the word heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard,

(Heb 12:10)  for they, indeed, for a few days, according to what seemed good to them, were chastening, but He for profit, to be partakers of His separation;

(Jam 2:14)  What is the profit, my brethren, if faith, any one may speak of having, and works he may not have? is that faith able to save him?

(Jam 2:16)  and any one of you may say to them, `Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,' and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what is the profit?

(Jud 1:16)  These are murmurers, repiners; according to their desires walking, and their mouth doth speak great swellings, giving admiration to persons for the sake of profit;

[Brett]

Chris R

Thanks for the posted from Ray's response the meaning of flesh and profit.

[Nelson]

Hi folks,

"wherefore, we faint not, but if also our outward man doth decay, yet the inward is renewed day by day" (2 Cor 4:16)

"for I delight in the law of God according to the inward man, and I behold another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin that is in my members" (Ro 7:22,23)

"that He may give to you, according to the riches of His glory, with might to be strengthened through His Spirit, in regard to the inner man, that the Christ may dwell through the faith in your hearts, in love having been rooted and founded" (Eph 3:16,17)

"but--the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible thing of the meek and quiet spirit, which is, before God, of great price" (1 Pe 3:4)

"but a Jew is he who is so inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, of which the praise is not of men, but of God" (Ro 2:29)[/list:u]The flesh is of benefit for the development our inner man, but of no use whatsoever to the outer man. The man of flesh dominates our being until we are dragged to Christ, then as He increases and we decrease (Jo 3:30) the inner man grows more and more to maturity and exercises a greater influence over the outer man,

"ye are to put off concerning the former behaviour the old man, that is corrupt according to the desires of the deceit, and to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and to put on the new man, which, according to God, was created in righteousness and kindness of the truth" (Eph 4:22-24)

"And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law; and those who are Christ's, the flesh did crucify with the affections, and the desires; if we may live in the Spirit, in the Spirit also we may walk" (Gal 5:22-25)[/list:u]As has already been said, the flesh is necesary for the development of the spiritual man within, that the inner man of the spirit may become manifest even within this tabernacle of flesh, until this outer man dies and the spirit returns to God, awaiting the resurrection into a new spiritual body. Great stuff folks.

Grace and peace to you

Nelson

[DuluthGA]

Hi, I reiterate Brett's note of thanks for the post of Ray's response to the meaning of flesh & profit.  Thanks a lot!

Allow me to re-cap the prominant thoughts for my own edification:

-- The experience (of the flesh) itself is not the profit itself.  Good, I had innately recognized this. 

-- Our flesh experiences are not in and by themselves a benefit/profit.... until OTHER FACTS [like the movement of God's spirit?  wink wink?]  PRODUCE THOSE BENEFITS.  I am all with our wonderful Ray on that!

-- There is no profit in the flesh itself only what comes out of it.  Another great one Ray!  I'm still in there all the way.

-- And once someone is out of it (as out of the world), the world is no profit/benefit to you.  Further ... the benefits are in Christ, out of the flesh and the world.  I definitely agree.

However, this last point has recently challenged my thinking in it's application, and I would like to nail it and put it to rest.

Just what exactly is meant here when it comes to living a general life on this earth?  Am I wrong in perceiving that it is physically impossible to be physically 'out of the world' and that this is to be taken spiritually?  To use my own and my Master's discretion when doing, going, buying, consuming, reacting, socializing, expressing, having some entertainment, etc.?  Surely I'm in the ball park on this. 

And does this not go hand in hand with coming out of Babylon?  Another spiritual application of our flesh?  I would hope so, because if it's not, then I would say that you all are the nicest bunch of fanatics I've ever met.   

With His joy, Janice

[gmik]

Good thread to bring back up.

Janice, I think you are in the ball park on this.  Paul's epistles go into the physical aspects of dealing w/ the world.  We are in the world but not of it. Loving one another, the fruits of the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, sharing, etc etc.

But when I go thru the check out line, I am just living life at that point.  Sometimes I remember to smile and say thanks but I don't always think of it in spiritual ways.  Swimming, going to the ball game, knitting, WHATEVER is still being physical in a physical world.

Whatever is not of faith is sin.  Do all w/o murmuring and complaining.  Love one another. I think we can layer these on top of everyday, sometimes humdrum, daily living.  Walking in the Spirit.

And yes, we ARE the nicest bunch of fanatics!! You included!!

[DuluthGA]

  Gena, you bring me supreme joy, and I agree that I'm a nice fanatic too!  HA!

Your overall response reassured me, and the best part was I found the Roman 14: 23 verse verified, and I'll display it again:

Whatever is not of faith is sin.

Good one, it helps and is right on the ball!

I am praising and glorifying His wonderful name!

Janice

[gmik]

Thanks!!