> General Discussions
Back to Babylon?
Bradigans:
--- Quote from: Dean Peterman on July 04, 2007, 11:29:26 AM ---Dear Matt,
I read your post. I can totally relate to what you are saying. I have a similar problem and I don't even know half of what you do. However, something I have learned recently is that your number one responsibility is to be faithful to God. Also, ask yourself this question. If they knew you thought they were in deception and in Babylon how would they feel. Would they want you there? Probably not.
It is Rodger who taught me this truth. Although he misunderstood me, the principle he was teaching is the same. It really hit home how wrong it would be for someone to do this. So you have to ask yourself whether or not your motives are pure and then let God guide you.
Amazing, I guess I do know something now. Thank you Rodger. This is something you taught me.
Sincerely,
Dean
--- End quote ---
How can you be faithful to God and His word without God and/or His Holy Spirit? 2 Corinthians 3:6 - Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. Philippians 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
God has provided us with a living way to do or not do things. I'm a monster, and I'm waiting for a living way to be righteous. I'm becoming more and more like Paul who said in Philippians 3:10-11 - That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. I don't want to do or not do things from the standpoint of tradition or political correctness. Though it's tempting when everybody's pointing the finger. I want to do things that stem from a resurrection because I've become a new creation in Christ, Jesus. Paul said in Phillipians 3:12-14 - Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
We can only be ourselves as we seek the will through THE WORD of THE HOLY SPIRIT (Luke 11:9-12). Everybody tells me I should get married, but my heart still isn't right. I know I went way off, but keep me in your prayers.
hebrewroots98:
DEAN...BINGO BUDDY!! I want to thank you for what you just said about..." what would the church members think if they thought that you thought that they were living in deception and pretended to be in spiritual agreement with them?"..THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY HERE; I was just at a loss for words.
(Also, to relate this same concept to an almost exact parallel to what I have been going through with a particular homeschool group just a week ago! You see, I could never feel comfortable being around those HS families since I believe that they are deceived (they base the hs groups' statement of faith on the TRADITIONAL CHRISTIANITY belief system instead simply letting all homeschoolers into their group. They are discriminating against me for not believing just as they do with their 'plan of salvation". I felt hypocritical to be a MEMBER of their group when I could not support their foundational Christian precepts and beliefs or participate in them How could I get along with these people when I beliee that they are biblically wrong???. All of the members are unified in these biblical errors. They will not accept other hs'ers, and especially not if they are unbelievers. (...AND THIS IS NOT EVEN A CHURCH; ITS' A HOMESCHOOL SUPPORT GROUP!!!) Plus, it tells me something when we have been with these people for three yrs nearly day in and day out, and NOT ONE has called or emailed to see why we have become inactive members....) Although they call to see if I can help with a project or class!.... ) ???
YellowStone:
Hi Susan,
I would like to comment on a couple of points from a different view point. I love you sister and I do not wish to hurt you in any way.
Let's look at this from the view point of all is of God and all is according to his plan and design.
To keep this simple, let us assume only 2 positions, yours and the HSSG (Home School Support Group)
If we truly believe that all is according to God, then how can the HSSG be deceived? For they didn't / couldn't get it wrong, how could they? God planned it this way. Also, any lack of care on their behalf for you is NOT there fault, not if we give God credit for all; they are unified in thought for a reason.
Feeling like a hypocrite is one way of looking at the position you were in, another is being 'Thankful' that God has seen fit to give you eyes to see the gulf between the HSSG and your God given spiritual understanding.
So now we have two givens, you who can see and the HSSG who cannot. There is really only one other question that needs to be answered. Why did God put you in that position? What was given for you to learn?
This is always the hard part to discern. Was it so that you could in His time, see the gulf between truth and lies? Or was it so that you could suffer ridicule and learn endurance in the hope that the fruits of the spirit might convert some if it God's will to do so. Or was it as you did, seen, understood and acted, that is left the HSSG.
It is how one feels regarding those whom God used to bring one understanding that really counts a lot. I used to feel sorry for such, but clearly that is in error, for feeling sorry means that God messed up. Therefore, feeling anything but love is counter productive to God Himself. I guess the point I am trying to make, is that closer God draws one to him, the less personal life becomes. I might be way off base here, but I don't feel so. I believe that the world becomes less than a mayhem of mass humanity, confusion, deceit and hatred, and more of what it is, a very elaborate testing or proving ground for our spiritual growth.
We can no longer blame 'anyone' for attacking us, without knowing full well that it is "God" we are blaming. Anger, frustration, hurt is simply not an option unless we are happy being the same towards God. I am so discovering that this crazy complicated life is no such thing. It is simple, providing we always understand that God is responsible for everything, and that there is ALWAYS something valuable to learn from it and an opportunity to share the fruits of the Spirit. :)
Thankfully God grants all wisdom and the truth learned may be so simple yet so profound. It sounds simple, and is liberating, but sometimes the answers do not come easy; but this is good, because at least one can determine a breach in understanding, instead of being consumed in carnal traits, blame and indignation being two common ones.
Well I hope I did not lose you or anyone else with this. Comments are always welcome
Love to all in Christ,
Darren
Bradigans:
--- Quote from: YellowStone on July 04, 2007, 06:19:02 PM ---Hi Susan,
I would like to comment on a couple of points from a different view point. I love you sister and I do not wish to hurt you in any way.
Let's look at this from the view point of all is of God and all is according to his plan and design.
To keep this simple, let us assume only 2 positions, yours and the HSSG (Home School Support Group)
If we truly believe that all is according to God, then how can the HSSG be deceived? For they didn't / couldn't get it wrong, how could they? God planned it this way. Also, any lack of care on their behalf for you is NOT there fault, not if we give God credit for all; they are unified in thought for a reason.
Feeling like a hypocrite is one way of looking at the position you were in, another is being 'Thankful' that God has seen fit to give you eyes to see the gulf between the HSSG and your God given spiritual understanding.
So now we have two givens, you who can see and the HSSG who cannot. There is really only one other question that needs to be answered. Why did God put you in that position? What was given for you to learn?
This is always the hard part to discern. Was it so that you could in His time, see the gulf between truth and lies? Or was it so that you could suffer ridicule and learn endurance in the hope that the fruits of the spirit might convert some if it God's will to do so. Or was it as you did, seen, understood and acted, that is left the HSSG.
It is how one feels regarding those whom God used to bring one understanding that really counts a lot. I used to feel sorry for such, but clearly that is in error, for feeling sorry means that God messed up. Therefore, feeling anything but love is counter productive to God Himself. I guess the point I am trying to make, is that closer God draws one to him, the less personal life becomes. I might be way off base here, but I don't feel so. I believe that the world becomes less than a mayhem of mass humanity, confusion, deceit and hatred, and more of what it is, a very elaborate testing or proving ground for our spiritual growth.
We can no longer blame 'anyone' for attacking us, without knowing full well that it is "God" we are blaming. Anger, frustration, hurt is simply not an option unless we are happy being the same towards God. I am so discovering that this crazy complicated life is no such thing. It is simple, providing we always understand that God is responsible for everything, and that there is ALWAYS something valuable to learn from it and an opportunity to share the fruits of the Spirit. :)
Thankfully God grants all wisdom and the truth learned may be so simple yet so profound. It sounds simple, and is liberating, but sometimes the answers do not come easy; but this is good, because at least one can determine a breach in understanding, instead of being consumed in carnal traits, blame and indignation being two common ones.
Well I hope I did not lose you or anyone else with this. Comments are always welcome
Love to all in Christ,
Darren
--- End quote ---
Amen! Jesus said in John 6:44 - "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.I'm finding out that no one is more deserving than anyone else. God simply does what He wants, when He wants, and how He wants. Romans 9:16 - So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
hebrewroots98:
Hello Darren and Bradigans,
Thanks for your input and you both made great points and I agree with you! God is in control of everyone and where they are in their spiritual understanding right now; and to think less of a person is to think less of God b/c God has put them spiritually where HE wills. Yes, they (HSers) are blinded and they do not have a choice to see until HE opens their eyes; I have no problem what so ever with this understanding. (Again, I say that the HS group is 'deceived' b/c that is where God has put them; not to act like I am better than they since I am not 'deceived'.)
My whole point is that I am there to homeschool my son and to help him to get a well rounded education but he cannot get it from these people b/c they do not like the spiritual differences between us (even though we are not there to discuss our spiritual differences); thus, my child is not being offered the same learning opportunities as the other kids are getting. I cannot stay around a HS group who does not care for my child's learning opportunities; that defeats the purpose of being in a HS support group!
(So yes, due to the fact that they do not care THEN IT IS B/C GOD SET THINGS UP TO BE THAT WAY! (I AGREE AGAIN.) Therefore, I cannot blame THEM (or God), I can only be left with a choice that includes getting my son the educational support that he needs. Darren, I see it BOTH ways...me as a hypocrite if I stay around a HS group that clearly states that they are a Christian based organization and that they do not want anyone as member who is of a different view point on the 'christian plan of salvation'; as well as I AM EXTREMELY THANKFUL THAT GOD HAS GIVEN ME EYES TO SEE THESE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS.
Good point Darren; I think that God put me there three yrs ago to get me grounded in learning how to HS, while at the same time; I used to be blinded (and they knew me then) and now God has lifted the blinders, so He had me there to suffer ridicule as well; HE had me there to plant some seeds of truth (while currently there is ONE family that has been there for about 6 months now and they are open to these truths that I have been sharing with them! So...all of the above reasons is why HE put me there Darren. (Thank you for your insight.)
I agree; life is and should be simple...(I have to remind myself sometimes when in the midst of a trial as this), but, we are here on earth for the purpose of judging ourselves...this lifetime is our white throne judgement... and I am SO THANKFUL FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO GET IT RIGHT, right now.
I WAS (not any longer) just disappointed to think that I had planned to be with these HS families for 12 yrs of HS educational opportunities, and now I can't since they have closed off the opportunity for my son to learn with these kids since we cannot now get into their SUB GROUP within our already exclusive HS group ( they said that they were too full to accept any other member!)
Now I am sure that I could start up my own sub group within this exclusive HS group by working with a few other members who are also NOT a part of the sub group; but, even they do not want to get close to us b/c of our differing spiritual views; and yet, they do have a personal relationship with the members of the sub group; I know this, I've tried for 3 yrs now to no avail. My child understands that he must endure a certain amount of persecution, and believe me, for an 8 yr old, he has done more suffering at the hands of more family, neighbors, friends, and HS relationships than any 8 yr old child I know! (That is Gods' will too, so it's OK.) But, he also doesn't feel good to know that several of the HS group families all secretly went on a weekend campout and we were not even invited to that either! So as his parents, we do not want him where he is not wanted! hem not wanting us in their classes and personal lives has actually been a blessing b/c it helped us to make the decision to stay away where we are not welcomed. Again, GODS' WILL BE DONE even here. I cannot continue to sit back and allow my child to be ostracised day after day, year after year when all he wants to do is just be friends with his peers! HE needs friends like the HS kids have! He has suffered enough persecution in three yrs. (yes, Gods' will), but now its time to go where he is accepted/respected. HE will provide for Daniel to have friends and peers who respect him.
It is now time to do less with this EXCLUSIVE HS group and to do more with the other groups in town who are INCLUSIVE to anyone that is a HSer. I will just have to spend more time trying to arrange for my son to have access to the same opportunities that I am leaving. (which is also of Gods' design.) At least there is one other HS group that does not have a mandatory christian prerequisite view point in order to join! There are 7 diff HS groups in this town and 5 are christian, one is catholic, and one is non discriminatory (which is the one I will start getting active in order to get Daniel what educational opportunities that he needs and can get accepted at.)
Matt, I am sorry about taking the time to discuss this on your thread (although it does have a common parallel.)
So, if anyone wants to continue this HS discussion, please PM me. Thank you Darren...You've got alot of heart brother :D!
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version