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[mcmiller]

You speak correctly, at least based on today's knowledge.  Everything would be older, but based on the travelers perception, virtually no time would have elapsed.

I don't know about the rest of you, but this is starting to give me a brain cramp.

Mark

[eutychus]

You speak correctly, at least based on today's knowledge.  Everything would be older, but based on the travelers perception, virtually no time would have elapsed.

I don't know about the rest of you, but this is starting to give me a brain cramp.

Mark

no cramps here.

  hard one, we look at the planet through a telescope, take off a million yrs later we reach that planet, the planet is a million yrs older but we arnt


heee heeee heee daaaaaaang

[rvhill]

I know Eutychus (Chuck) has expressed interest in some scientific theories as have I, although the training in physics or micro biology or any discipline has been less than limited for me I do enjoy science, I enjoy reading books on almost any subject relating to it.

 I am fascinated by how the world kneels at the alter of science as if it is the final word even though the premises that were once thought to be absolute are found out to be over time, flawed.

Ptolemy's gravity had objects descending at a speed relative to weight, Newton disproved that theory after it was accepted as conventional wisdom for more than a millenium.

When I was in the early part of my elementary school career early 60's our science book stated the universe was infinite and always existed. The bible's version of it being spoken into existence was ridiculed but in a decade or so the Big Bang Theory gained prominence which in reality is much closer to the bible version than always there, never ends.

There is a conventional wisdom existing now that is originally from Einstein that traveling faster than light is impossible as the mass of the object would stretch and expand to the point of oblivion. So at this point in time the speed of light is the max, but is it? What about the speed of gravity? What if the sun just disappeared, exploded, imploded, etc. but the light went out, the heat disipated and it vanished. How long would it be before we on earth would see everything darken, feel the cold? About 8 1/2 minutes or so. Ok, now how long would it take for the earth to fly out of it's orbit and begin to traject into a straight line? Immediately. So, is the speed of light the limit, or is there something else?

Joe

P.S. Don't believe for a second I was smart enough to come up with this on my own, I was perusing another book and thought it was very interesting.

Oh I love science

Relativity is a very interesting theory E = MC ^2 mean energy = ( mass * the speed of  light)squared. It basically ties energy to matter; ties space to time; And ties gravity to the speed of light.  It also say ever thing is relativity to the speed of light.

The reason nothing of any mass can got as fast as the speed of light is that is that as you accelerate you gain mass, and there for the more you accelerate the more energy you need to accelerate. One of the things Einstein little equation say is it take infinite energy to accelerate a object of any given mass to the speed of light or C. The laws of thermodynamics say you can not create energy. So, you can not have infinite energy. A body moving at the speed of light would take on infinite mass and would require infinite amounts of energy to shift it. That said, sub-light travel (very close to the speed of light) is possible, providing you have the energy. Even if you could use the whole power of the sun, which is more power then we can really comprehend beyond a mathematical equation, you still would not have enough energy to travel at the speed of light. Although you could travel at a speed that would kill a human being. Anything over ½ of the speed of light would be unhealthy. The faster an object travels the greater it mass. So at some point the mass of a human being would become so great their physical structure could not handle the mass.


So Einstein is not saying FTL is impossible, just that accelerating to light speed is impossible, or changing the acceleration of an object that traveling at the speed of light. It a small, but often over looked difference.


Any ideal about worm holes or warping space are out, space and time are linked(this why time travel is not possible). If you had a worm hole to say Andromeda, and sent a radio message through it. The signal wave that did not inter the worm hole from the point transmission arrive at the same time as signal that pasted through the worm hole, or the signal that pasted through the worm hole would reach the other side some time after the end of time. I think they are still debating that one.

So in order have FTL you need some system which does not warp space and time, and does not use acceleration to travel.

Also the ideal about using quantum effects may also be impossible, because of information lost. I forget the details. It was only being debated when I read it so it may , or may not have been proven out.

The Tachyon matter transportation (teleport device) wont work either. Thermodynamics get in the way again. Every time you create or destroy a bit you generate heat. The computer system you would be using to run you program would have to be some what hotter then the sun.

[rvhill]

My brain doesn't work well in science or math. But I do appreciate all those who have that gift. I have been to a number of Creation Science seminars and one thing that I find interesting about evolution is they never explain how an animal can survive in its transitory stages. In other words, how does a bird, that is turning into an alligator, live with a wing and a foot? what does this bizarre creature eat? It can't fly and it can't walk. I saw a picture of this creature and it just made me laugh that people can believe anything as long as it's not God.
I always liked the story about the emperor who had no clothes. It just shows how gullible people are and how willing they are to let the "experts" think for them.
I hope more of you science people can help us with some of these things.

Sure Evolution is a weak theory, but it the best we have. Speaking as a Christian, creation theory is not even scripturally sound.. ID is not good science either. The reason why is you can scientifically prove the existent of God and until you do you can't add God to nature philosophy. As a Christian I believe God is responsible for everything, but you don't see me crying, because every scientific theory does not include God. Life is no less or more miraculous then Gravity, thermodynamics, relativity, and any other physical effect.

Creationism only been around for 500 or 600 years, the bible is much older then that. I would go so far as to say Creationism is heresy.

 Evolution is a weak theory because it lack Data, and the evidence it does have is not as solid as it should be. All we have is the fossil record, and it is incomplete. At best the fossil record is a blunt tool. The fossil record allows to much politics and Dogma from all side to inter in to the debate. It like saying we have Newtonian physics, and it is good enough to understand the Forces of nature. Newtonian physics are useful and correct, but they are not complete. Relativity is much more elegant and complete then newton's first four laws, even Relativity can be better.

Mutation only plays a small role over time in evolution. Biological plasticization plays a much bigger role in evolution.

Your pet Spot is an example of Biological plasticization. Spot is a wolf who happen to look like Chihuahua. Given a couple of million years with genetic drift, and isolation. Spot's off spring will no longer be genetic wolfs, but genetic chihuahuas.

plas·ti·cize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (plst-sz)
tr. & intr.v. plas·ti·cized, plas·ti·ciz·ing, plas·ti·ciz·es
To make or become plastic.

-plastic
suff.
Forming; growing; changing; developing: metaplastic.

All living creatures are very plastic by nature, even humans. Canis Lupus is just the best know example of the plastic abilities of animals.

[rvhill]

Light has mass and is effected by gravity. Light exsist as both a partical and a wave. There are theories that say that it is a possibility that the same may be true of gravity.

As far as faster than light travel....I think it is a possibility. However, I believe that it will be many many many years before we ever discover how to do it in this world.

Light is composed of photons so we could ask if the photon has mass.  The answer is then definitely "no": The photon is a massless particle.  According to theory it has energy and momentum but no mass and this is confirmed by experiment to within strict limits.  Even before it was known that light is composed of photons it was known that light carries momentum and will exert a pressure on a surface.  This is not evidence that it has mass since momentum can exist without mass.

Gravity effect space and time, which in turn effect light. As light travel through space and time.

[rvhill]

gravity travel at the speed of light

[rvhill]

the reason time travel is impossible is because time is how God brings about his purpose :wink:


the concept of a being NOT bound by time OR space is mind boggling.


cool thread, Jesus is master scientist :wink:

From everything I have read about time travel theory, thermodynamics stops all theories anyone has ever come up with, even worm hole theory. So I think your are right.
but remember both time and space are relative.

[rvhill]

That would mean I would be in both places at the same time, or essentially everywhere at once. Sounds like God.

Amazing!!    :shock:


So that's how God does it.   :-k

Not really, quantum effects are instantaneous, But then you would be getting in to string theory.

[rvhill]

Hello Sorin,

As far as I'm concerned, God does what He does because He is God and it is His nature.

He is by nature:
Eternal
All powerful
All knowing
Everywhere
Self Existant
In control
Wise beyond measure
Unlimited
LOVE
etc., etc.

Mark

 I would say that God is beyond the universe. Therfor the laws of the universe just do not apply to him. That said I do not believe he violates natural law. He does not have to the universe is his creation.

[Sorin]

That would mean I would be in both places at the same time, or essentially everywhere at once. Sounds like God.

Amazing!!    :shock:


So that's how God does it.   :-k

Not really, quantum at instantaneous, But then you would be getting in to string theory.

Perhaps I worded that wrong. I meant to say, now I'm starting to understand this better. not that, that's exactly how God does it.  

:oops:

[rvhill]

That would mean I would be in both places at the same time, or essentially everywhere at once. Sounds like God.

Amazing!!    :shock:


So that's how God does it.   :-k

Not really, quantum at instantaneous, But then you would be getting in to string theory.

Perhaps I worded that wrong. I meant to say, now I'm starting to understand this better. not that, that's exactly how God does it.  

:oops:

What I meant was quantum effect are instantaneous. They are faster then light. Light does take time to travel. Light itself is not effected by time, that why when you see pictures of starts you are seeing backward in to time.

[rvhill]

You speak correctly, at least based on today's knowledge.  Everything would be older, but based on the travelers perception, virtually no time would have elapsed.

I don't know about the rest of you, but this is starting to give me a brain cramp.

Mark

no cramps here.

  hard one, we look at the planet through a telescope, take off a million yrs later we reach that planet, the planet is a million yrs older but we arnt


heee heeee heee daaaaaaang

 Yes this why physicist always want to look out farther. The farther the can see the earlier they can see.   it is a form of time travel

[eutychus]

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html

[Gill]

Chuck, that was awesome  :lol:  ~ a universe within a universe.

[joyful1]

Late comer to the forum here....but enjoyed the thread as well...
my contribution:
Time = God's way of making sure everything does not happen all at once!