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[UncleBeau]

ADDENDUM

Some to begin with perhaps....

"You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!"
Why Jesus Used Scathing Sarcasm

"The Kiss of Death"

"An Encouraging Word About Death "

http://www.bible-truths.com/

No one has to take on any role as a teacher and post unrelated scriptures pulled off E-sword to compound the message already conveyed so vividly in the articles.

No one needs to get on a soap box and proclaim thier own/clik  understanding of the Word of God.
The Spirit is your comforter!! not anyone of us are.

Rodger

Well then there's no need for a forum is there? I mean, how much can you discuss SCRIPTURE without using Scripture? If all people did was copy and paste Ray's teachings or just tell people to read it and discuss it without posting scripture, this wouldn't be much of a forum, would it? I understand that you want people to read the whole thing and ask questions later. That's a great desire to have. Guess what. Not everyone will be taught (from God) everything that you have. Some people WILL miss things that God has not chosen to reveal to them yet.
Let me ask you this...What does a teacher teach? what they've been taught just as it was taught to them, or what they've been taught according to the way they they understand how to convey it to others? When I learn something at my job and someone eventually asks me a question related to what I've learned, do I tell them to go read it because it's been covered somewhere else? No. What if they've already seen the answer somewhere and forgot. Do I remind them that they should have already learned that and they should go back and look again? No. Should someone scold me for "trying to take on any role as a teacher" If I do in fact answer a question that they might have?
It doesn't really matter what you tell them has been covered. The Scripture HAS in fact been covered. It's called SCRIPTURE!
These people are only human. Ray teaches as God instructs him and I don't think it helps anyone by imagining a soap box to put people on that don't understand something to the extent that either you or Ray do. Let the moderators determine who is taking the role of a teacher.

your friend,
 -Beau

[iris]

Jackie lee  and Tim

I am not Ray nor try to be ! But in whorshipping God in Spirit we are like minded.

If you do not have the common courtesy to read the articles Ray has written, then post on here questions, ALREADY COVERD to your hearts content and explained.

Then you show the audacity to ask for love, from people who have asked your stuborn selves to read, you will not get everything handed to you here, unlike in the world churches where your preacher, deacon, reverend, gives you a song and dance of salvation and SPOON FEEDS you heresy and blasphemies.

Here you have to READ and let loose your Spirit, is that too much to ask of you to DO !!

I DO NOT take on any role of teacher. By God's will Ray is an inspired vessel used.

Articles explaining your What's,, Why's,, Who's,, Where,, and When's even.

On the Bible-Truths web site articles is:::

Explained is the undisputed, unchallenge Turth, there is no hell !!

Explained is the undisputed, unchallenge Turth, all man will be saved !!

Explained is the undisputed, unchallenge Turth, WE all must die !!

Explained is the undisputed, unchallenge Turth, the Lake of Fire is not eternal torment !!

Explained is the undisputed, unchallenge Turth, man has no imortal soul !!

Explained is the undisputed, unchallenge Turth, man has no FREE WILL !!

Explained is the undisputed, unchallenge Turth, tithing is unscriptual !!

And many more beutifully Spiritual treasures.

STOP being lazy and READ, the rest of us did ! we read them over and over and over and over...ect.

God has brought you here , WHAT do you expect now , for God to open the web site to the articles you should read,, perhaps you want God to surf the web site for you,, and maybe print some articles for you,,, then do a litte research on scripture.

This is an entire study on the SPIRITUAL word of God, and well.......you have to study. You learned to study in your grade school years, remeber ?

Ok 1st time around they may ask what pencil , paper , book and study are we using, but comon then  in the same breathe they ask.....

DUH.....What's this pencil for ? DUH.....What's this paper for ? DUH.....What's this book for ? DUH....What are we studying ?

Oh the pain of READING, but you must. Oh the pain of searching but you must. Oh the pain of opening your spiritual eyes but they must. Oh the pain ,,the pain......

Now some may ask " but Rodger why you so mean and forcing people too read...you meany.."

Answer is i am directing to where God is ! God is WAITING for YOU in those SPIRITUAL SCRIPTURES, in those WORDS OF LIFE, IN ALL THOSE INSPIRED WRITTEN ARTICLES by Ray.

I am but a measly hierling to show YOU WHERE THE SHEPHERD IS, OPEN the BOOK of LIFE and enter.

CHOICE IS YOURS

Rodger

Thank you Rodger for those inspiring words. When I read the papers two or
three times, each time I see something I didn't see before.
Thank you!!!

Iris

[Falconn003]

Iris you are most welcome

Just a reminder i myself need in times. please never hold back in reminding me.


God bless
Rodger

[seminole]

What is going on with this topic? We should study the Bible, ask questions and try to understand more each day. No one is a prophet that I can think of or even able to  write the inspired Word of God. All of us are just babies in the overwhelming knowledge of God. The Bible has been written and by people who were there! Ray is a man with some articles he wrote. Many other writers, teachers, professors study and write papers relating totheir field. We read and understand what we can but shouldn't be pounded down if we do not agree with something or we have a question about something. Someone wrote something about this being Ray's site that he maintains. I still don't know if it is  his or Craig's or who owns the forum. If questions and thoughts are not permitted it really isn't a forum of discussion. I realize in the rules it says the forum is to discuss what you learn at Bible Truths. Questions sometimes lead to a better understanding of the subject the forum is about.
All we have to go on here online is how we speak to one another. Respect  can lead to a great discussion.

[Craig]

I still don't know if it is  his or Craig's or who owns the forum.

It's definitely not mine, Dennis and Ray started things.  I just help guard the hen house

If questions and thoughts are not permitted it really isn't a forum of discussion.

Wrong, But I agree it is not like the other 99% of the forums out there.  And the restrictions won't be to everyones liking.

I realize in the rules it says the forum is to discuss what you learn at Bible Truths

As long as you realize this and don't push the envelope you will have very little problems here.

Respect  can lead to a great discussion.

Agreed, and it must go both ways.  When members join and agree to the rules and terms of membership, they need to respect what is asked of them.

Craig

[UncleBeau]

UncleBeau

I WROTE::

No one has to take on any role as a teacher and post unrelated scriptures pulled off E-sword to compound the message already conveyed so vividly in the articles.

NOW ! where did i say not too post any scripture at all? I do not see it, can you please POINT it out to me UncleBeau ?

wait a minute Rodger....where did I say "any scripture at all"? Could YOU please point that out to ME? Let's see if you go to extremes and absolutes any where else...

UncleBeau WROTE::

If all people did was copy and paste Ray's teachings or just tell people to read it and discuss it without posting scripture, this wouldn't be much of a forum, would it?

WHERE DID this even come out of, yourself perhaps. No way did i convey the above, less you add more into what you read....

I think you are the one who is reading into my word more than what was said. I love to hear people "compound" a message if it's correct. Does that not show that they understand it? Is it not a good thing to see that, or is it annoying for you? Before you decide to quote me on that and pick apart my words, understand I'm not assuming that you're annoyed by people copying and pasting from esword....but certainly am thinking it loudly.

UncleBeau WROTE::

Guess what. Not everyone will be taught (from God) everything that you have.

The SCRIPTURES SPIRITUALY are what being taught !!

To who, Rodger? You? Obviously not me or anyone esle that "compounds the message", or why would you say something as mean and cruel as this...

Until you or some one else comes up with or believes to have a more precise inspired interpretations of the Word of God, as Ray inspired by the Holy Spirit too write, Then go open your own web site and maintain it.

Yeah...that is a pretty extreme length to go to in order to prove whatever your point is. I don't think I even need to respond to this statement, Rodger. I know for a fact that Ray does NOT talk to people this way. So if you'd like to learn from him and only him, than you should stick to his principles and not this. I NEVER said I or ANYONE has a "more precise inspired interpretation" than anyone....and I'm sorry, but I won't be openng my own website anytime soon.

And what of the SCRIPTURE " all will know righteousness...." do we disregard it aswell ?

In what manner would I disregard scripture, Rodger? I think you're a little foggy on WHEN "all will know righteousness". I think you should go back and read Ray's teachings.

UncleBeau WROTE::

Let me ask you this...What does a teacher teach? what they've been taught just as it was taught to them, or what they've been taught according to the way they they understand how to convey it to others?

This is a big disagreement on my part, why you may ask. For the reason MANY do not see the SPIRIT as the comforter and deny the Holy SPIRIT's truths.

Why would you disagree? Why do you think that so many people teach the same subject but include and take out certain things? Because they all understand it differently! This is the point that I've been trying to get across to you, Rodger! Rather than picking apart words and quotes, try looking at what they're saying. By the way, what you said here has absolutely NO relevance to what you replied to. Do you understand that there's a difference between denying and never seeing?   

It is the Spirit THAT CAN ONLY DISCERN the WORD of God and only the SPIRIT alone can do this,,,,,now UncleBeau and any others who MIGHT deny this, did you come to these truths on your OWN? If so ...please by all means explain away....

And just when did I imply this, Rodger? Didn't I just say (FROM GOD) when you quoted me saying

Guess what. Not everyone will be taught (from God) everything that you have.

? Is not God's Spirit the Holy Spirit, Rodger? I think maybe you should go back and read Ray's articles.

We were all taught about hell, tithing, imortal soul, free will, traditions, ceromonies...ect of the worldy church.  How do you think, suppose, assume, speculate, by chance, we all here, separate the worldly beliefs from the Truths of God ??  do you honestly believe a mere man does it for us all ??

We were ALL taught? All of us? When was this? just now? Yesterday? Does not GOD determine who learns what? Who is this "mere man" anyway, Rodger?

UncleBeau WROTE::

When I learn something at my job and someone eventually asks me a question related to what I've learned, do I tell them to go read it because it's been covered somewhere else? No. What if they've already seen the answer somewhere and forgot. Do I remind them that they should have already learned that and they should go back and look again? No. Should someone scold me for "trying to take on any role as a teacher" If I do in fact answer a question that they might have?

And should you teach them wrong, your ok with being held accountable, should you leave something important out or perhaps ferget a prerequisite your ok with your student getting it wrong.

Was that an answer to any of those questions? I guess if you can assume that I'm ok with someone "getting it wrong", then I can assume you believe you don't need to address my questions.

The Holy Spirit is OUR COMFORTER we NEED nothing more !

If this reply contained "nothing more" than accusations and assumtions, maybe I'd believe that you practice this.

If you do not believe Ray's articles are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and think yourself a better teacher over the long years Ray has put in, well by all means go open your forum and have a go at it. Or better and easier yet, take the challenge of proving one OLD scripture text on the Bible-Truths web site wrong and witnesses it with 2 others OLD scriptures.....

Sounds like you have an agenda here, Rodger. What brought THIS up? Did I EVER say ANYTHING even remotely close to this? You sure are spewing out a lot of "IF"s. Take WHAT challenge? Is this a challenge for you? Did I evr say that Ray was wrong in anything? Not once....and what's with this OLD scripture stuff you're saying...where's the NEW scripture?

UncleBeau WROTE::

It doesn't really matter what you tell them has been covered. The Scripture HAS in fact been covered. It's called SCRIPTURE!
These people are only human. Ray teaches as God instructs him and I don't think it helps anyone by imagining a soap box to put people on that don't understand something to the extent that either you or Ray do.

YAHOO !! I am with you on this ...........you go guy.......ah errr.. friend   ((one exemption you can leave me out of any comparison to Ray, I could not even put a 6 piece puzzle together))

If you're with me on this, then you'd have no reason to reply. I don't think you read ANY of what I wrote in the above quote EXCEPT for where I mentoned you.

Let the moderators determine who is taking the role of a teacher.
your friend,
 -Beau

A M E N
One last thing can we ALSO let the moderators determine who is taking the role of a hierlings as well ??

Honestly Rodger, you can call yourself whatever you wish.

your pal, your bud
Rodger

I hope that you eventually see that I wrote to you in my original post for the purpose of letting you know how inapropriate your attitude is about how and when people learn. they are doing their best in GOD's timing. I've heard nicer posts on myspace. When you start to cut people down, insult, assume, and make rash remarks, you are NOT acting as a loving brother in Christ. Instead of picking apart people's statements, try helping them as your brothers and sisters do, not as Ray responds to his detractors. Will you learn anything from this? I love you brother, I really do, but I see an obvious problem with your attitude concerning what God is doing with his children and When he does it. We are instructed to correct. If you think that I'm portraying myself as some better teacher than Ray, then you really miss the point of instruction and fellowship. What's the point in learning something like "there is no hell" If you can't help others coming in to the truth instead of saying READ, READ, READ. You're correct that the Holy Spirit IS our comforter, but why do you suppose He works THROUGH US?

your friend,
 -Beau

[Falconn003]

UncleBeau

i have only ONE question left......" WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

Rodger

Ps. go read some more then come back.

[seminole]

Hey Falcon, I don't understand some of what you write and why you come across harsh but it is your way and for that I do have respect that you stick with and stand on who and what you believe.

[Oblivion582]

I always thought it was weird to have a resurrection...if we were already in heaven, like Christindom teaches. But before I'm to pursaded by Ray's teaching I'd like to know the answer to Matthew 22:32.....

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Any thoughts on this? This is the main verse blocking me from accepting that the dead are, in fact, dead.

[Dean Peterman]

Dear Oblivion,

When I first came to this website I sent Ray an e-mail asking about this issue of the immortal soul.  Here is what he wrote to me:


Dear Dean:  See HELL Part C for a detailed discussion on the subject of the human SOUL.
God be with you,
Ray

I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Remember, this is a response to the Sadducees who say there is no resurrection.  The Sadducees believed that when people die they stay dead.  Jesus is showing them that they are wrong about the resurrection.  He was not telling them that they have an immortal soul.  I too used to think this verse was teaching the existence of an immortal soul but came to see after much study that I was making an unwarranted assumption.     

I  believed in the doctrine of an immortal soul for many years but can now see after much study that there are multitudes of reasons for rejecting this belief.  The best thing you can do is continue to study.  Read Hell Part C if you have not already read it.  You will find it very helpful.  I don’t think Ray discusses this verse specifically but the article will give you a lot of insight on this doctrine. 

Sincerely,

Dean

[carol70]

To further add on to Dean's response (mostly for my own understanding)...

When God appeared to Moses in the burning bush, he said "I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"... (Exodus 3:6).  I think this is a type or a shadow of some thing to come, namely, the resurrection of the dead.  Jesus confirms this in Matthew 22:32, but we get a better understanding I think in Mark 12:

Mar 12:26  And as regards the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses how God spoke to him in the Bush, saying, "I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob?"
Mar 12:27  He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. Therefore you greatly err.

Jesus himself confirms that yes, the dead are dead but they will rise.  Immortal beings aren't dead and therefore cannot be resurrected. 

At least that's how I see it.

[Falconn003]

What is imortal is the Spirit that God breathe into man to make a living soul.

Thus the Spirit returns to it's erternal origin.

the body decays and the Spirit returns is how i simple read it through out Our father living Word.

Rodger

[chuckt]

I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Hi dean and good morning.

do you understand that verse? or may i ask what your take on it is?

peace
chuckT

[Dean Peterman]

Dear chuckT,

I will be happy to give you my personal understanding of it.  However, let me first explain that I have a sequential way of looking at things.  Other people are more intuitive but I am not so fortunate.  So, I always try to fit things into a bigger picture whenever I am trying to understand them.  When I first started studying this subject I assumed that the Bible taught the existence of an immortal soul.  Therefore, I tried to make every verse conform to this assumption.  The more I studied the more I started to see that there are good reasons for rejecting the doctrine of an immortal soul.  However, I still was not totally convinced because of verses such as the one you are asking about.  Or for example, Luke 23:43 could lead someone to think that we have an immortal soul.  However, as I learned, no punctuation was used in the original Greek so where a translator puts the comma, before or after the word day, will determine how you understand the verse.  The hardest thing to overcome in seeing the truth on this subject is our own preconceived ideas.  Nobody was more deceived on this subject then I was.  The Bible is filled with statements that can be hard to understand.  We all have a tendency to fit those verses into the framework of our own understanding.  At this point in my life I look for alternative explanations for any verse that on the surface could lead me to think we have an immortal soul.  I think the key to understanding the verse in question is context.  I think the phrase that causes the confusion is, "not the God of the dead but of the living."  If we believe man has an immortal soul we are going to see this verse as proof.  However, once we realize that the overwhelming testimony of the Bible teaches that man does not have an immortal soul we will look for another explanation.  My explanation or understanding is simply that Jesus was dealing with some Sadducees that were teaching there is no resurrection.  Jesus wanted to show people that they were wrong about the resurrection.  Showing that the resurrection is a reality is the entire point of what Jesus is teaching to these people.  So when Jesus says "but of the living" he is not saying they are at that moment in time actually alive in heaven.  The point Jesus is making is that if God says I am the God of Abraham...etc, but yet these people are dead and gone without any hope for a future resurrection then how could he be their God.  Death is just a temporary sleep, so in the eyes of God we are just sleeping and will be resurrected at the appointed time.   This is my take on it.  I hope I have conveyed my thoughts well enough to be of some help.

Sincerely,

Dean   

[chuckt]

Dear chuckT,

I will be happy to give you my personal understanding of it.  However, let me first explain that I have a sequential way of looking at things.  Other people are more intuitive but I am not so fortunate.  So, I always try to fit things into a bigger picture whenever I am trying to understand them.  When I first started studying this subject I assumed that the Bible taught the existence of an immortal soul.  Therefore, I tried to make every verse conform to this assumption.  The more I studied the more I started to see that there are good reasons for rejecting the doctrine of an immortal soul.  However, I still was not totally convinced because of verses such as the one you are asking about.  Or for example, Luke 23:43 could lead someone to think that we have an immortal soul.  However, as I learned, no punctuation was used in the original Greek so where a translator puts the comma, before or after the word day, will determine how you understand the verse.  The hardest thing to overcome in seeing the truth on this subject is our own preconceived ideas.  Nobody was more deceived on this subject then I was.  The Bible is filled with statements that can be hard to understand.  We all have a tendency to fit those verses into the framework of our own understanding.  At this point in my life I look for alternative explanations for any verse that on the surface could lead me to think we have an immortal soul.  I think the key to understanding the verse in question is context.  I think the phrase that causes the confusion is, "not the God of the dead but of the living."  If we believe man has an immortal soul we are going to see this verse as proof.  However, once we realize that the overwhelming testimony of the Bible teaches that man does not have an immortal soul we will look for another explanation.  My explanation or understanding is simply that Jesus was dealing with some Sadducees that were teaching there is no resurrection.  Jesus wanted to show people that they were wrong about the resurrection.  Showing that the resurrection is a reality is the entire point of what Jesus is teaching to these people.  So when Jesus says "but of the living" he is not saying they are at that moment in time actually alive in heaven.  The point Jesus is making is that if God says I am the God of Abraham...etc, but yet these people are dead and gone without any hope for a future resurrection then how could he be their God.  Death is just a temporary sleep, so in the eyes of God we are just sleeping and will be resurrected at the appointed time.   This is my take on it.  I hope I have conveyed my thoughts well enough to be of some help.

Sincerely,

Dean   

Hi Dean and greetings.

yes our preconcieved ideas get in the way.

we know the dead know nothing, they give no  praise they are waiting resurrection they dont need a GOD if  you will

the greek actually says  "i am not the god of the dead ones" but "of the living ones"

but we  now  know Christ is both Lord of the living and dead those who are awake and those who sleep.

and so in Christ all will be made alive as all in adam where made dead.

so in a sense the soul is "immortal' its just not reality yet, its just not manifested. or put on.

your thoughts?

thanks and God bless
chuckt

ps also i went back and reread this article and its pretty darn good.

http://bible-truths.com/death.htm

Sleep is a way that God can set people aside for a little while as He works with our children and our children’s children. Centuries and millennia will pass for some, yet they will know no death, only consciousness. From our perspective we will never know anything but life and consciousness. Death won’t even be an illusion: it won’t be AT ALL. And that is because "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything."

[mrsnacks]

Dear Jackie Lee,

Rodger apologized and we are ok with each other.  He made an honest mistake.  We all have our buttons pushed the wrong way sometimes and say things we later regret.  This is the case with Rodger.   He didn't mean any harm.  He is a good man.  Don't let this discourage you. 

Sincerely,

Dean

-------------------------------------------

What a thread.  He needs to apologize to others. This is not the first time.

Reading this thread gave me that feeling you get in your stomach after eating fast food. Taste good but it is not nutritious. Gas pains. LOve is patient and kind. If it is not spoken in love I don't want to hear it.

[Falconn003]

mrsnacks

Look who is calling the kettle black,,,, do you not think for one minute, your implimations of your world religion in this forum does not offend some here. Through several of your post you hold on to and try to preach forth your ideas from wrold religion.  I am still waiting for your apology...but not holding my breathe....too each thier own way by God's will i say !

Let us get one thing clear hear i asked forgiveness from DEAN had i upset him in his SINCERENESS TO LEARN, >> I did not apoligized<< . So please do not hold your breathe.... i am how God made me and i do not appologized for God making me so....period 

gemme a break   


Rodger

[chuckt]

rodger:

is the eternal spirit breathed into man the same as the HOLY SPIRIT??

you said:

((God is eternal, breathes an eternal spirit to add with the body)))


does not that in and of itself open a whole other set of questions??

was it only adam in whom God breated and since life is in the blood does he really "breath" in each of us??


1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


how many spirit's do we have in us?

your old pal
chuckT

ps.

im just being the way God made me.

[Deborah-Leigh]

The soul is immortalised only when God says so.

That is the bottom line but it sure looks like that this fact hurts some but is more acceptable to others.    For those who find it acceptable...welcome to loving the Word of God and appreciating what He alone can cause to understand and appreciate through His Spirit of Wisdom Truth, Love and Power.

For those who would have others receive equal appreciation of Gods Truths, it is only according to God to reveal to who He selects to have this knowledge. Understanding comes from God's Spirit.

Rodger, do you not know that there are those who can read with blind eyes, hardened hearts and sterilised minds and think they are very cleaver not to agree with what they read? Oh no! That would take away their identity as unique and thinking individuals who by default never agree to ANYTHING. There are those who can hear with deaf ears but understand nothing. For me these are the dead burying their dead claiming it is God who is silent while it is them who are deaf. Woe to anyone who would point that out! That would be too mean or unkind....I speak sarcastically!

We are among the living who love and accept what we are taught through Ray that is unparalleled in any time before and could well be unparalleled in any time in the future.  Woe be to detractors and peddlers of their own doctrines and pet errors and sentimentality's.

Falcon....I enjoy your being open, direct, honest and challenging, testing and making the walking wounded get up off their comfort zones to stand up to walk out of the sick room of errors. Sure, some will snarl, bite and get nasty...or remain in receipt of perceived benefits for non agreement. For me that is why Jesus asked if the man on the mat wanted to be healed. He did not take it for granted that this sick man wanted to be healed! Some LIKE to be sick!

The Scriptures are clear and Ray presents unequivocal clear and supported evidence for the truths in the Word of God. Some will enjoy it and others will dispute it....fight against it using misinformation that appears to be their life boat to a destination they alone see and desire. Blind eyes can see you know! I speak sarcastically.

Peace to you

Arcturus












 

[chuckt]

We are among the living who love and accept what we are taught through Ray that is unparalleled in any time before and could well be unparalleled in any time in the future.  Woe be to detractors and peddlers of their own doctrines and pet errors and sentimentality's.

hi arcturus

what do you mean here? the underlined part?

thanks
chuckt