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MORE ON THE IMMORTAL SOUL
carol70:
To further add on to Dean's response (mostly for my own understanding)...
When God appeared to Moses in the burning bush, he said "I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"... (Exodus 3:6). I think this is a type or a shadow of some thing to come, namely, the resurrection of the dead. Jesus confirms this in Matthew 22:32, but we get a better understanding I think in Mark 12:
Mar 12:26 And as regards the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses how God spoke to him in the Bush, saying, "I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob?"
Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. Therefore you greatly err.
Jesus himself confirms that yes, the dead are dead but they will rise. Immortal beings aren't dead and therefore cannot be resurrected.
At least that's how I see it. :)
Falconn003:
What is imortal is the Spirit that God breathe into man to make a living soul.
Thus the Spirit returns to it's erternal origin.
the body decays and the Spirit returns is how i simple read it through out Our father living Word.
Rodger
chuckt:
--- Quote ---I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
--- End quote ---
Hi dean and good morning.
do you understand that verse? or may i ask what your take on it is?
peace
chuckT
Dean Peterman:
Dear chuckT,
I will be happy to give you my personal understanding of it. However, let me first explain that I have a sequential way of looking at things. Other people are more intuitive but I am not so fortunate. So, I always try to fit things into a bigger picture whenever I am trying to understand them. When I first started studying this subject I assumed that the Bible taught the existence of an immortal soul. Therefore, I tried to make every verse conform to this assumption. The more I studied the more I started to see that there are good reasons for rejecting the doctrine of an immortal soul. However, I still was not totally convinced because of verses such as the one you are asking about. Or for example, Luke 23:43 could lead someone to think that we have an immortal soul. However, as I learned, no punctuation was used in the original Greek so where a translator puts the comma, before or after the word day, will determine how you understand the verse. The hardest thing to overcome in seeing the truth on this subject is our own preconceived ideas. Nobody was more deceived on this subject then I was. The Bible is filled with statements that can be hard to understand. We all have a tendency to fit those verses into the framework of our own understanding. At this point in my life I look for alternative explanations for any verse that on the surface could lead me to think we have an immortal soul. I think the key to understanding the verse in question is context. I think the phrase that causes the confusion is, "not the God of the dead but of the living." If we believe man has an immortal soul we are going to see this verse as proof. However, once we realize that the overwhelming testimony of the Bible teaches that man does not have an immortal soul we will look for another explanation. My explanation or understanding is simply that Jesus was dealing with some Sadducees that were teaching there is no resurrection. Jesus wanted to show people that they were wrong about the resurrection. Showing that the resurrection is a reality is the entire point of what Jesus is teaching to these people. So when Jesus says "but of the living" he is not saying they are at that moment in time actually alive in heaven. The point Jesus is making is that if God says I am the God of Abraham...etc, but yet these people are dead and gone without any hope for a future resurrection then how could he be their God. Death is just a temporary sleep, so in the eyes of God we are just sleeping and will be resurrected at the appointed time. This is my take on it. I hope I have conveyed my thoughts well enough to be of some help.
Sincerely,
Dean
chuckt:
--- Quote from: Dean Peterman on July 13, 2007, 06:30:27 AM ---Dear chuckT,
I will be happy to give you my personal understanding of it. However, let me first explain that I have a sequential way of looking at things. Other people are more intuitive but I am not so fortunate. So, I always try to fit things into a bigger picture whenever I am trying to understand them. When I first started studying this subject I assumed that the Bible taught the existence of an immortal soul. Therefore, I tried to make every verse conform to this assumption. The more I studied the more I started to see that there are good reasons for rejecting the doctrine of an immortal soul. However, I still was not totally convinced because of verses such as the one you are asking about. Or for example, Luke 23:43 could lead someone to think that we have an immortal soul. However, as I learned, no punctuation was used in the original Greek so where a translator puts the comma, before or after the word day, will determine how you understand the verse. The hardest thing to overcome in seeing the truth on this subject is our own preconceived ideas. Nobody was more deceived on this subject then I was. The Bible is filled with statements that can be hard to understand. We all have a tendency to fit those verses into the framework of our own understanding. At this point in my life I look for alternative explanations for any verse that on the surface could lead me to think we have an immortal soul. I think the key to understanding the verse in question is context. I think the phrase that causes the confusion is, "not the God of the dead but of the living." If we believe man has an immortal soul we are going to see this verse as proof. However, once we realize that the overwhelming testimony of the Bible teaches that man does not have an immortal soul we will look for another explanation. My explanation or understanding is simply that Jesus was dealing with some Sadducees that were teaching there is no resurrection. Jesus wanted to show people that they were wrong about the resurrection. Showing that the resurrection is a reality is the entire point of what Jesus is teaching to these people. So when Jesus says "but of the living" he is not saying they are at that moment in time actually alive in heaven. The point Jesus is making is that if God says I am the God of Abraham...etc, but yet these people are dead and gone without any hope for a future resurrection then how could he be their God. Death is just a temporary sleep, so in the eyes of God we are just sleeping and will be resurrected at the appointed time. This is my take on it. I hope I have conveyed my thoughts well enough to be of some help.
Sincerely,
Dean
--- End quote ---
Hi Dean and greetings.
yes our preconcieved ideas get in the way.
we know the dead know nothing, they give no praise they are waiting resurrection they dont need a GOD if you will :o
the greek actually says "i am not the god of the dead ones" but "of the living ones"
but we now know Christ is both Lord of the living and dead those who are awake and those who sleep.
and so in Christ all will be made alive as all in adam where made dead.
so in a sense the soul is "immortal' its just not reality yet, its just not manifested. or put on.
your thoughts?
thanks and God bless
chuckt
ps also i went back and reread this article and its pretty darn good.
http://bible-truths.com/death.htm
Sleep is a way that God can set people aside for a little while as He works with our children and our children’s children. Centuries and millennia will pass for some, yet they will know no death, only consciousness. From our perspective we will never know anything but life and consciousness. Death won’t even be an illusion: it won’t be AT ALL. And that is because "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything."
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