bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Created Sinning Machines  (Read 3287 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Created Sinning Machines
« on: July 01, 2007, 01:00:08 PM »

This is a phrase Ray has used quite often and I know for a fact it applies to me. This morning I came upon an online article in the Telegraph (UK) that a study conducted by The University of Portsmouth psychology department, they made some interesting observations in regard to very young children seeking advantage by dishonesty, this will come as no real surprise to many parents but what may be surprising is that they do not pick it up as a learned behaviour but it is a natural instinct.

Babies not as innocent as they pretend
 
By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 01/07/2007



Whether lying about raiding the biscuit tin or denying they broke a toy, all children try to mislead their parents at some time. Yet it now appears that babies learn to deceive from a far younger age than anyone previously suspected.

Behavioural experts have found that infants begin to lie from as young as six months. Simple fibs help to train them for more complex deceptions in later life.

Until now, psychologists had thought the developing brains were not capable of the difficult art of lying until four years old.

Following studies of more than 50 children and interviews with parents, Dr Vasudevi Reddy, of the University of Portsmouth's psychology department, says she has identified seven categories of deception used between six months and three-years-old.

Infants quickly learnt that using tactics such as fake crying and pretend laughing could win them attention. By eight months, more difficult deceptions became apparent, such as concealing forbidden activities or trying to distract parents' attention.

By the age of two, toddlers could use far more devious techniques, such as bluffing when threatened with a punishment.

Dr Reddy said: "Fake crying is one of the earliest forms of deception to emerge, and infants use it to get attention even though nothing is wrong. You can tell, as they will then pause while they wait to hear if their mother is responding, before crying again.

"It demonstrates they're clearly able to distinguish that what they are doing will have an effect. This is essentially all adults do when they tell lies, except in adults it becomes more morally loaded."

She added: "Later it becomes more sophisticated by saying, 'I don't care' when threatened with a punishment - when they clearly do."

Dr Reddy thinks children use early fibs to discover what kinds of lie work in certain situations, and also learn the negative consequences of lying too much.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/07/01/scibaby101.xml

Interesting isn't it?

Joe

Logged

Sorin

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2007, 02:46:52 PM »

Yes, it is very interesting indeed. I mean how does a child know how to lie, and deceive? It's a natural instinct, it's within us all.
Good find.
Logged

DizzyD

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2007, 03:16:26 PM »

               Yes Joe that was interesting and eye opening to see that it comes natural.
                When I finished reading this I had a flash of a thought has a study ever been done that shows when children learn to discern between right and wrong?
Logged

YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2007, 03:19:46 PM »

Great post Joe and I agree with you Sorin (so good to have back with us again)

I so now understand Paul when he said the following:

Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

What is causing sin? The sin that dwells in each and every one of us. We cannot help but sin. Which is of course a very sobering realization, for even as we sin unwittingly, we know that God loves us still. I think I must be a well oiled and maintained Sining Machine. :(

Great Thread Joe. :)

Love in Christ,
Darren
Logged

Redbird

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2007, 03:41:24 PM »

Welcome back Sorin. :) 

Lisa
Logged

gmik

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2007, 04:26:12 PM »

Wow.  That is interesting.

Here's something I learned when researching twins.  In the womb, one twin will actually pick on the other, or pick a fight, or claim territory!!!

Its always cool to see science catching up on what the Bible has already taught us!
Logged

jER

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2007, 05:56:39 PM »

When my daughters were infants (just babies), they seemed to have a universal language, if you were attentive. I could distinguish between them being hungry, sleepy, in pain, needed a diaper change, uncomfortable position, or merely wanting attention (to be loved). Their cries or tones, in and of themselves spoke volumes, but were limited to approximately a half-dozen different sounds. I also noticed these in my nieces/nephews, the same sounds (language).  Being a single parent of three daughters, I needed all the help I could get, including: knowing when NOT to feed them, but RATHER, change me!

Thank God - they are now young ladies...

- jER
« Last Edit: July 01, 2007, 05:59:52 PM by jER »
Logged

Sorin

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2007, 06:49:37 PM »

Welcome back Sorin. :) 

Lisa


Thanks Lisa. :)

You too Darren.
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2007, 01:22:19 PM »


Here's something I learned when researching twins.  In the womb, one twin will actually pick on the other, or pick a fight, or claim territory!!!

Its always cool to see science catching up on what the Bible has already taught us!


Yes Gena it certainly is;

Gen 25:21  And Isaac entreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
 
Gen 25:22  And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to inquire of  the LORD.

Gen 25:23  And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Gen 25:24  And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.

Thanks everybody for the responses, it is great to see you around Sorin!

His Peace to you,

Joe
 
Logged

ciy

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2007, 02:06:24 PM »

Interesting.  It goes back to did God cause us to sin?  We seem to have a problem, me included, in saying that God caused it.  In all actuality, God causes everything.  At some point in the chain of events God causes all.

There was a discussion a while back that God does not cause a man to rape in innocent girl.  We have a hard time saying this, but we have no problem saying that God caused and foreordained the heinous act of crucifying the perfect Son of God.

This is just thinking out loud that the article caused me to think.  It comes to mind that if I have a block of wood setting on an inclined plane and I take the wood drill holes and add wheels to it and set it back down on the ramp.  When it rolls off I could say that I did not cause it to roll off of the ramp, but since I made it a rolling machine did I not cause it to roll. 

Just thinking.
CIY
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2007, 06:57:11 PM »

Hi CIY,

Perhaps you were not done with your primitive car and were just demonstrating the need of it requiring brakes and a steering wheel!

His Peace to you,

Joe
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2007, 06:42:15 PM »

Hi CIY,

Your rolling machine really enjoyed the ride, wishing to go even faster before it crashed. Once it was broken into little pieces it realized the need for brakes to stop (sinning) and a steering wheel for direction (to a better more perfect existence).

It no longer wanted to roll along on its own, it was ready to submit to the Master Builder (with exceeding joy)!

His Peace to you,

Joe
Logged

Patrick

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 672
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2007, 08:21:49 PM »

This (me) sinning machine is firing on all 8 cylinders, a beast of an engine. :-[



Hi CIY,

Your rolling machine really enjoyed the ride, wishing to go even faster before it crashed. Once it was broken into little pieces it realized the need for brakes to stop (sinning) and a steering wheel for direction (to a better more perfect existence).

It no longer wanted to roll along on its own, it was ready to submit to the Master Builder (with exceeding joy)!

His Peace to you,

Joe

Awesome observation my Brother. ;)
Logged

ciy

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2007, 09:18:59 PM »

That is good Joe.

I used the example thinking that I am the maker and I built the block of wood with wheels without a physical way to keep from doing what it is made to do which is go down the ramp until it hits bottom.  No brakes, no steering, etc. Until it learns that the only way it can keep from hitting the bottom is if I, the maker, take it in my hands and stop it.

Probably a stretch, but it is a good example in my mind.

CIY
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2007, 01:31:15 PM »

Thank you Patrick & CIY!

Your Brother in Christ,

Joe
Logged

Bradigans

  • Guest
Re: Created Sinning Machines
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2007, 09:18:42 PM »

Great post Joe and I agree with you Sorin (so good to have back with us again)

I so now understand Paul when he said the following:




Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

What is causing sin? The sin that dwells in each and every one of us. We cannot help but sin. Which is of course a very sobering realization, for even as we sin unwittingly, we know that God loves us still. I think I must be a well oiled and maintained Sining Machine. :(

Great Thread Joe. :)

Love in Christ,
Darren
Amen. I'm not certain I will ever overcome my lustful desires. My motive for really wanting to overcome these days is the lack of opportunity to act out on them. Man, am I wretched. Good article Joe. 
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.077 seconds with 26 queries.