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Author Topic: July 1, 2007 Bible Study Audio  (Read 3682 times)

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Dennis Vogel

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July 1, 2007 Bible Study Audio
« on: July 02, 2007, 12:09:06 AM »

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.msg19809.html#msg19809

Rays Notes:


DO JAMES AND PAUL CONTRADICT?
[Are We Saved by Faith Only or by Works Only?]

This is a two thousand year controversy.
Martin Luther called James “An epistle of straw” for suggesting that we are “justified by works,” and not “faith ALONE.”  “Man can be saved by faith ALONE” (Luther)

Joe Tkach—Worldwide Church of God:  “we are saved by faith ALONE without resort to works of ANY KIND.”

Dr. James Dobson—“justification by faith ALONE.”

Billy Graham—“faith ALONE.”

Is this not a CONTRADICTION?

   PAUL: “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified”  (Gal. 2:16).  Also 17-20!!

JAMES:  “Was not Abraham our father justified by works...?...Ye see then how that by WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED…” (James 2:21 & 24).

Is there a Scripture which states that man can be righteous, justified, or saved by: “Faith ALONE?” “Works ALONE?”

Yes there are two for “faith alone” but not in the King James.
[1] “…faith ALONE” (Gal. 2:16, Luther’s Translation).

[2] “…man is not being justified by works of law, except ALONE through the faith of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 2:16, Concordant Literal New Testament).  That is SPURIOUS!

Why would they insert “alone” into this passage? Why does Dobson, Tkach, Graham, Luther, insert “alone?”

Several reasons for “faith ALONE”—it’s simple, easy, doesn’t really require much, and…AND, your conscience won’t torture you when you can’t stop lusting after women.

Matt. 5:27—“Thou shalt not commit adultery”
Mark 10:19—“You know the commandments, Do not commit adultery…”
Luke 18:20—“You know the commandments, Do not commit adultery…”
Rom. 2:22—“You that say a man should not commit adultery…”
Rom. 13:9—“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery…”
James 2:11—“For he that said, Do not commit adultery…”
Exodus 20:14—“Thou shalt not commit adultery”  (That’s the 7th commandment. Why does Jesus, James and Paul put it FIRST?)

Rom. 7:14—“For we know that the law is SPIRITUAL…” How so? Tenth Commandment: “Thou shalt not covet” (Rom. 7:7).

“Thou shalt not covet WHAT?” “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s WIFE”

Paul is speaking mostly to men, and men are to teach their wives at home.
So the apostles use an example that ALL MEN UNDERSTAND!

Luckily women don’t have such problems, right?  Or do they?
Men want sexual power over the woman; women want power over the man.
Men MAKE the money; women CONTROL the money.
Men and women both have a spiritual problems based on physical lusts.

Back to our problem:  Do James and Paul contradict, and if so, which one is right?  Or are they BOTH RIGHT?  Maybe we need to pay closer attention to the WORDS!  [Email from today…………..Eve misquotes God?]
Sometimes things only appear to be contradictions (Prov. 26:4 & 5)…..

PAUL AND THE GALATIANS:
Gal. 1:6-9—They were following a PERVERTED GOSPEL…
Gal. 2:1-3—Circumcision…
Gal. 2:9-10—Paul to the heathen and Peter to the circumcision…
Gal. 2:16—“Knowing that a man is not justified by the WORKS OF THE LAW…”  What kind of “works of the law?”  Not murdering? Not stealing? Honoring your parents?  No—Gal. 4:10—days, times, seasons.

GOOD WORKS are never referred to as “works of the law.”

Rom. 13:8-11—“…love is the fulfilling of THE LAW.”
I Tim. 2:10 & 5:10—Women….. “good works” I Tim. 6:18, “good works”
II Tim. 3:17—“good works.” Titus 1:16—one denies is faith by NO works!
Titus 2:7 & 14—“good works” Titus 3:8 & 14—“good works”

Eph. 2:8-10—Not OUR good works, but Christ’s “good works” IN US.

Did Jesus have anything to say about “good works?”  Matt. 5:16…
Peter “good works” (I Pet. 2:12).

JAMES ON FAITH AND GOOD WORKS:
James 2:14-16 Vs. 1:27 Vs. Gal. 2:10 ‘EAGER,” “zealous” Titus 2:14

James 2:17-19—The “DEVILS BELIEVE” [#4100, have faith]…

James 2:21—Abraham “justified by works” VS. Gal. 36, “faith”

A contradiction?  Gen. 15:6—Abraham believed God….Gen. 22:2
God tests Abraham’s faith, Gen. 22:12, and Abraham passed by WORKS!!
Gen. 22:16—“…have DONE THIS THING”—A GOOD WORK!

James 2:22—“faith with works makes faith perfect” See Eph. 3:8-10.

Heretic, Martin Luther—“Epistle of straw” (He meant, I Cor. 3:12-13)!
James 2:24, “NOT by faith ONLY”  Verse 18 Vs. Luke 6:46!!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2007, 12:13:58 AM by Dennis Vogel »
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DuluthGA

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Re: July 1, 2007 Bible Study Audio
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2007, 01:19:35 AM »

AH HA!!  INTERESTING!!  THANK YOU!!



Appreciate it!  Janice
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Evan600

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Re: July 1, 2007 Bible Study Audio
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2007, 03:21:06 AM »

Lookin' forward to hearing this one!!!!
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: July 1, 2007 Bible Study Audio
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2007, 07:28:01 AM »



Excellent Dennis!

That was a MUCH NEEDED expose on the difference between works of the LAW and works of Righteousness.

Thank you to you and Ray!

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
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