Thank you for all of the messages of encouragement.

[Dean Peterman]

Dear friends,

I really appreciate all of your kind words.  I apologize for being so sensitive.  My life feels like it is a total wreck right now so I feel very weak and over sensitive. After much study I just came to the conclusion that hell is not real and this ripped apart my world.  Not that I wanted people to go to hell but this realization caused me to conclude that everything I have been believing is a lie.  I think you can understand how that can shake up someones world. 

Rodger sent me an e-mail to apologize and I was happy to put all of this behind us.  He misunderstood me and that is understandable.   I have the type of personality that has the tendency to beat a dead horse into the ground.  That is just how I learn.  You also have to understand that giving up my belief in the immortal soul is not easy.  Although I am 90% convinced I have to be 100% convinced before I have the confidence to give it up.  This is a very, very scarey thing for me.  The thought of dying is pretty scarey.  I mean the thought of really dying.  Not going into the spirit world but being really, really dead.  So before I am ready to say I will be really, really dead I have to be sure the Bible really, really teaches this.  That is why I ask so many questions.  I need to be sure.  So I will continue to study this.

So many have asked me to stay that I have decided it would not be fair to leave and disappoint so many people.  So I am going to stay and continuing learning.

Sincerely,

Dean

[YellowStone]

Hi Dean,

I am so glad that you did decide to stay.

I do want to mention one little thing about death. It is timeless; there will be know thinking or counting seconds. it will so much like what Paul said. In a twinkling of an eye, you be awoken.

I am sure Lazarus had no concept that he had been dead for 3 days.

Trust me, when you reach this understanding. Death is neither dark, lonely or foreboding. Rather death is simply a doorway to another life/dimmension.

I kinow there is Scripture that supports this, but it is early

May God continue to reveal his truth to you.

Love,
Darren

[hillsbororiver]

http://bible-truths.com/death.htm

Hi Dean,

Glad to see you back with us, God has a way of grabbing us by the shoulders and giving our whole spiritual being a thorough shaking. Breaking down the man made doctrines within like the shards of a shattered piece of ceramics.

Have a look at the above article, I pray it gives you peace & comfort.

Joe

[Craig]

Dean,

What you are experiencing now is totally normal (at least it was for me)  When God started tearing down my house, I was as scared as I've ever been in my life and didn't get much sleep for 2 months.  But it was all so worth it.  I suspect you will find that God tends to open the floodgate once he shows you His truths.

Blessings!

Craig

[Kat]

Hi Dean,

I know this is a hard pill to swallow, but aren't you really glad it is totally different then what the church teaches 

Here is a scripture that Paul is teaching the Corinthians that there is a resurrection, in verse 18 he states without a resurrection even believers are lost.  If we never really die how could we be resurrected?

1Co 15:12  Now, since our message is that Christ has been raised from death, how can some of you say that the dead will not be raised to life?
v. 13  If that is true, it means that Christ was not raised;
v. 14  and if Christ has not been raised from death, then we have nothing to preach and you have nothing to believe.
v. 15  More than that, we are shown to be lying about God, because we said that he raised Christ from death---but if it is true that the dead are not raised to life, then he did not raise Christ.
v. 16  For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised.
v. 17  And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is a delusion and you are still lost in your sins.
v. 18  It would also mean that the believers in Christ who have died are lost.
v. 19  If our hope in Christ is good for this life only and no more, then we deserve more pity than anyone else in all the world.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[carol70]

Hi Dean,

If you haven't read Ray's paper about death, please do.  Hopefully it will bring you some comfort.  I posted a bit of it below.

http://bible-truths.com/death.htm

------------------

AN ENCOURAGING THOUGHT ABOUT DEATH

Death has two different meanings that are essential for us to differentiate:

   1. The ACT OF DYING or termination of life.
   2. The STATE OF BEING DEAD.

All humanity will experience "the act of dying," but absolutely no one will ever experience the "state of being dead." And this is because:

    "For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything..." (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

This may be comforting to some, but scary to others. It all depends on your point of view; your perspective; your emotional stability; your up-bringing; your understanding. What I want to do in this little article is give you an encouraging perspective of death. "How can anything be encouraging when it comes to death?" you are probably asking. Well, let me try and answer that for you.

Virtually every time that I have read that verse (dozens of times), it was to prove to someone that we do not have an immortal soul that lives on after death of the body, nor do we have consciousness as is taught in Christendom. But this past year I took another look at this verse and saw something else that I had never contemplated before.

Not only is there no consciousness in death, but there is no consciousness OF death either. This is the encouraging part.

    "The living KNOW that they shall die, but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING."

Let's think about that for a few moments and see if this is not quite encouraging.

"The living KNOW... the dead know NOTHING." The dead don't know that they are dead. When you die, you will NOT KNOW THAT YOU ARE DEAD! But it gets better. Not only will you never know that you are dead at some point in the future, but from your perspective YOU NEVER EVEN LOST CONSCIOUSNESS. This to me was a marvelous revelation.

Once God creates consciousness in a human they will NEVER EVER know anything BUT CONSCIOUSNESS. From my perspective and from your perspective we will never "know" ANYTHING but life and feelings and emotions and consciousness. From our perspective we will never "know" what it is like to be dead. Oh we will probably die some day (assuming that the Lord doesn't come first), but we will never know that we were dead; we will never know what it is to BE dead, or to BE unconscious. Others will know and sorrow (maybe?) that we are dead and gone, but from OUR perspective we will never lose conscious reality, and we will never "experience" being dead.

Now I didn't say we would not experience "dying." Most (albeit not all) people who die, experience dying, but they do NOT experience death itself, nor will they ever. It is impossible for someone to experience the death state, seeing that where there is no consciousness, there is no experience, and therefore there is no memory of it. I will carry this one step further. Even if there was no such thing as a resurrection from the dead, the dead would never know that they died and would never know that they are dead.

This to me is an amazing thing. Once God created consciousness, cognizance, awareness, perception, sensation, emotions, and the like; we never ever loose it from OUR PERSPECTIVE, and after all, whose perspective counts the most when it comes to death—ours or someone else's?

We may all go through the fear of dying or even the pain of dying, but there is no pain and no fear IN DEATH ITSELF. No one who is presently dead is aware of it, or experiencing it, or being frightened by it, or anything else.

------------------

Love and peace,
Carol

[Redbird]

Dear Dean,

So glad a gentle spirit as youself has decided to stay with us! May these words of Jesus comfort you;

Luke 4:18
The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the broken-hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Peace to you ~ Lisa

[rk12201960]

 
Alright Dean!
I'm so glad you are staying. 

It is the hardest thing to do is to give up our idols of the heart, what a brave thing it is to love God before our own hearts,
Gods speed and blessings to you Dean.

Randy

[skydreamers]

Yay Dean!  Hang in there brother...it gets easier in time...



Peace,
Diana

[LittleBear]

Hi Dean,

I'm really, really glad you decided to stay.

I think we've all been in that place of turmoil where we realize we have been decieved for so long. But what a joy to know the real truth, and truth that makes sense and reveals to us the merciful heart of God!

Keep on reading and praying, and hang in there!

Love,

Ursula

[lilitalienboi16]

Dear friends,

I really appreciate all of your kind words.  I apologize for being so sensitive.  My life feels like it is a total wreck right now so I feel very weak and over sensitive. After much study I just came to the conclusion that hell is not real and this ripped apart my world.  Not that I wanted people to go to hell but this realization caused me to conclude that everything I have been believing is a lie.  I think you can understand how that can shake up someones world. 

Rodger sent me an e-mail to apologize and I was happy to put all of this behind us.  He misunderstood me and that is understandable.   I have the type of personality that has the tendency to beat a dead horse into the ground.  That is just how I learn.  You also have to understand that giving up my belief in the immortal soul is not easy.  Although I am 90% convinced I have to be 100% convinced before I have the confidence to give it up.  This is a very, very scarey thing for me.  The thought of dying is pretty scarey.  I mean the thought of really dying.  Not going into the spirit world but being really, really dead.  So before I am ready to say I will be really, really dead I have to be sure the Bible really, really teaches this.  That is why I ask so many questions.  I need to be sure.  So I will continue to study this.

So many have asked me to stay that I have decided it would not be fair to leave and disappoint so many people.  So I am going to stay and continuing learning.

Sincerely,

Dean

Hip Hip hurray!

Now where is one of them crazy smilies when you need em!

[sansmile]

Oh Dean. brought tears to my eyes when i read you have decided to stay. Ths forum is a special place cause in this world amongst "christiandom" we are seen to be worse than pagans..........my own mother thinks i am possessed ..lol. But when He reveals His truth to you  there is NO going back.


A BIG FORUM HUG !!!


God Bless and may He give you peace.

Sandie

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Dean

Rodger was not the only one to misunderstand you. I did too! It just did not become evident because I could not reply to your post and when I did it was deleted! I am glad Rodger stepped in with his post. It was much shorter than mine!!!!Had my post been the one to challenge you I think perhaps you may have headed for the hills and not been back!!!!

Let me explain. I believe that what keeps us all here in BT is that we have accepted what we have been taught. I believe what we have received is of GOD! The teaching is sound. The challenge to refute the teachings are sounder still....take two scriptures that prove anything Ray has written is incorrect and BINGO!....It has never happened!... That is the way to dissolve doubts. Work with the sword of the word and not with what you have in scholastic pedigrees! If you are persuaded one way then test it with witnesses of the Scriptures. Find two....where two or more are gathered there HE IS!....Scriptures that is ...two or more SCRIPTURES....not THOUGHTS....not OPINIONS....not HERESAY....

If someone comes into the Forum with resistance to what we as a group have discovered, it creates tension to edify, encourage and admonish which is the correct way to address one another as brethren. It is part of the process of exchanging insight for error, wisdom for foolishness and edification for dullness. Sometimes there will be sparks flying. Ask the members! Sparks are good. They make great thoughts burn with testing against greater thoughts of God that are often presented here via the members and brethren to help us communicate with the mind of Christ!

You are 55. You have taught what you now find you did not know! That must be HELL....not the Pagan hell or forever hell but temporary hell that will pass!...There is so much to consider giving up. A LIFETIME! That is a kind of death. Ray has touched on this aspect in some of the insights he has given regarding the book of Revelations.

Death happens on multiple levels. We have to die to untruth. We have to die to unbelief. We have to die to error. We have to die to our comfort zones before our Lord shows us more of HIMSELF.

It is awesome how many here have been caused to call you into this flock of young and old wise and learning souls of Christ. HIS Spirit of Truth works through who HE chooses and let me tell you, pedigree makes NO DIFFERENCE! I personally have been blessed, edified and learnt from our youngest here!....This of course is not to discount or trivialise our more senior and experienced souls here. Not at all!! We have all embraced the teachings revealed via Ray. It matters not what our pedigrees are in scholastic learning or experience.


In the Forum we can compare the fruit of one teaching against the other. The teachings here in BT are complimentary to God and His Son. The teachings of Mystery Babylon are complimentary only to heresy and blasphemy. We are learning the differences! It is not the many who either see or know this yet. It is indeed a shock to discover it and painful....very painful. Personally I believe that the great chastisement will be to expose and reveal our error to ourselves and we will feel so ashamed and so evil as did Isaiah and Job for our participation...but for us here and now....we have the calling to turn away from false teaching and to repent of our participation with and on behalf of Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots.

ALL are guilty to have idols of perfection when we know that only Christ will come with our full redemption for HE is the finisher of our faith and not us here and now. It is wrong to think we are saved and it is prideful to believe we can do anything to save ourselves. Christ has done everything and we have to believe that He has and for me that is my work!

I did not quite grasp your suffering for discovering the truth. I also was chastised when I came to Ray's teaching on tongues. I cried pitifully and ashamedly for my participation in such a sham. It is most edifying to me to have you reveal your personal and intimate agony with your new discovery of the teachings you are now exposed to and it deepens a sense of awe that God will do the same for everyone in the end.

As for death...it is how we get there that is the issue for me not the being there!....so....Slow down now. Heal and be still....Our Lord who we love and know, feel and wait for, is in control of everything we are all experiencing together and separately uniquely.

If it was you who wrote to Ray about free will....then you will have much to ponder and reflect on. If not, then stay a big while longer among us all....as we continue to have much to ponder, share and reflect on too.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Robin]

Thank you for coming back Dean.

I process truth the way you do. I usually throw up when I learn something new, lol. I tear it into microscopic pieces and then put it back together in a way that I can understand it. I study each little tiny piece and when I'm finished putting it together it is solid. My brother is just the opposite. He is more abstract in his thinking and seems to just pull things out of the air and understands it. We have to talk for hours sometimes before we understand the truth each in our own way. When you put the two halves together though it is dynamite. We all need each other and God made us the way we are.

everything I have been believing is a lie

Yes. That's what makes me throw up. It's not easy waking up into a new reality. There is an adjustment to make and it takes time if you have our personality. My brother heads into it with excitement and I get sick. We both end up in the same place though. The truth is not just intellectual, but it is cleansing and some of those things that are cleaned out of us are not pleasant to look at or experience.

God has been patient and loving and kind to me. He also demands all and will allow me to suffer great hurt to fulfill his plan in my life. I endured much more suffering than my brother did through this. I was damaged and my make-up was different. I had many hidden things that had to be uncovered and my coping methods were different. I had a wall built that was made of solid steel. God had to tear it down with many hard circumstances. We can't judge another by our own circumstances. We are not all the same.

God took 5 years to teach me that there was no free will. You wouldn't believe me if I told you what I had to go through to learn that. He uncovered a universe within me that I didn't know was there. I wouldn't have been able to bear it if God had gone any faster.

Keep seeking and don't stop until you find the truth.

Hugs,
MG