> General Discussions
I need some help with a question.
Dean Peterman:
Dear Friends,
I have been reading Ray's articles and they have been helpful. I am trying to put together a basic understanding of what is being said. Can someone give me a brief outline of God's basic plan for his creation. I just sort of need a road map so I understand what people are talking about. Right now it seems like disconnected pieces in my mind. What I understand so far is that God created us and has plans for us but what is our ultimate destiny? Are we going to live on the earth as humans are we going to be spirits beings in heaven. Can someone give me a brief explanation or give me an address of one of Ray's articles to read. It would be so helpful to at least have a basic idea of where we are going.
Also, I inadvertently started a lot of controversy with some of my questions previously. So please, understand I am not challenging anyones beliefs I only want to understand what is being said. I have no desire to cause any problems with anyone here. I read all of the posts and felt bad that other people were disputing with each other. My friends, lets love each other. In my own life I never want to hurt anyone. Jesus said turn the other cheek so I make it a habit to never respond in anger or harsh words to anyone. This does not mean someone should never be stern and forceful. This is sometimes necessary. However, for me since I know I am a worthless person and in myself not worthy of anything God has to give and that whatever I get from God is purely because of his love and kindness, therefore I feel I have no right to ever speak harshly to anyone or demean their beliefs in any way. So be assured I am only here to learn.
Sincerely,
Dean
Redbird:
Hi Dean,
A while back, when Josh was a newbie, he wrote a short summary or outline of what he had concluded from Ray's teachings. I printed it out, but gave it to a family member to read. I will try to locate this again for you because I thought it was pretty good. :)
Peace to you,
Lisa
hillsbororiver:
Hi Dean,
This should help with the first part of your question,
Exposing Those Who Contradict
Part 4
GOOD AND EVIL
God created good and evil (Isa. 45:7).
That covers it all.
God planted the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" - not Satan.
When God planted that tree He said everything (including this tree) was "good." People think that God never intended for man to eat of that tree. Of course He did. How else could man know "good?" He had to eat of that tree.
"Good & Evil" are two separate things, but the "knowledge of good and evil" are not separate. One cannot have knowledge of good without knowledge of evil. It is impossible. And that's why they were both in the same tree. The same fruit. The first time I saw the truth of this verse, that both "good and evil" are in the same tree, I was shocked. I had never seen it before.
Pastor Hagee said that it was God's intention that Adam and Eve walk with Him in the Garden and obey Him. So Adam apparently went against God's intention. Untrue and impossible. If true, then God made a mistake-He sinned! If true, then God doesn't "know all" - He lied! Then God had to go from plan "A" to plan "B." How absurd. Adam did not withstand God's intention. God did NOT make a mistake. God does not lie. God knows all. God did not go to plan B, but rather intended for Adam to sin. At this point in Adam's life, God made him a vessel of dishonor (Rom. 9:21).
Religion and theologians have so clouded men's minds that many can't even think straight anymore. Most do not meditate at any length or depth on what they read in God's Word. If Adam and Eve had NOT eaten of the tree of the knowledge of "GOOD and evil," would they have had a realization that they had done a good thing by being obedient? No. They wouldn't. Why? Because they didn't have a knowledge of "good and evil." That knowledge is in the fruit of a tree that they wouldn't have eaten from. If Adam and Eve never obtained a "knowledge of GOOD and evil," how could they ever know ("knowledge") good?
Since this tree contained not only the knowledge of evil, but of good also, why did God forbid them from eating it in the first place? Or, why didn't He plant another tree in the garden that contained ONLY the knowledge of "good?" Why not two trees: (1) the tree of the knowledge of good, and (2) the tree of the knowledge of evil. They could have eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good only, and rejected the tree of the knowledge of evil, and all of the suffering of the human race would have never came about, and we would all be living in a garden of happiness and bliss to this very day. Or would we? Why didn't God do it this way? Because God is intelligent and wise, not stupid and foolish like the people who come up with questions as these.
God is good (Mark 10:18). God possesses a knowledge of "good and evil" (Gen. 3:22). God wants Sons (Eph. 1:5). Sons possess the attributes of their Father. There it is.
One cannot know good without a knowledge of evil. That's why they are both in the same tree, in the same fruit. We cannot know one without a knowledge of the other.
Eph. 2:10 says:
"For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works ... "
What is an "achievement?" Webster's Dictionary says: "to do ... succeed ... accomplish ... to get ... to reach by trying hard ... gain ... victory ... by skill, work, courage, etc." Webster's New World Dictionary, p. 7. Do we think "achievement," "goodness," or "virtue," are things that fall out of the sky like rain, or grow wild on trees?
Try to name ONE virtue that is not the direct result of overcoming some form of EVIL. If theologians insist that God never intended for man to sin or experience evil, then they are also saying, of necessity, that God never intended for man to have any virtue or to know good!
Let's not delude ourselves. Under the same circumstances as Adam, I would have sinned, you would have sinned, everyone would have sinned.
Yes, Adam and Eve "sinned" when they disobeyed and ate the fruit. But it was God who was behind it. He had already made provision for their salvation from sin.
"The Lamb slain from the foundation [Gk: disruption] of the world" (Rev. 13:8).
God wants sons. (Eph. 1:5). And God "designated us beforehand" for this purpose.
God knows "good and evil" already (Gen. 3:22). Man has no knowledge apart from contrast. We can't know what light is unless we also know darkness. We can't appreciate health without having experienced sickness. And we cannot fully appreciate life without also experiencing death. And so God created all these in order to produce sons.
http://bible-truths.com/part4.htm
His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,
Joe
Redbird:
Hi Dean,
Well, I found it! On Page 28, near the bottom of the page, in General Discussions, is Josh's (sj) post entitled MY UNDERSTANDING SO FAR. Sorry for not putting up a link, as I am pretty much computer illiterate! :)
Lisa
Sorin:
--- Quote from: Redbird on July 04, 2007, 12:07:46 PM ---Hi Dean,
Well, I found it! On Page 28, near the bottom of the page, in General Discussions, is Josh's (sj) post entitled MY UNDERSTANDING SO FAR. Sorry for not putting up a link, as I am pretty much computer illiterate! :)
Lisa
--- End quote ---
Lisa, it's not that difficult to provide a link. All you do is left click and hold while dragging the mouse over the area you want to copy. After
you've highlighted the whole thing/link you right click and select "copy". Then you just come back here, post a reply and right click and select "paste". And it will look like this: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2715.0.html
If you want, you can also provide a link like this: click here
This is a little more complicated to explain, but if you quote me, it will show you what I did to get it like that.
Take care,
Sorin
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version