bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Sacred Secrets  (Read 7663 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2007, 01:21:15 PM »

Thank you Joe for continuing this thread and driving home your point.

I hope that I am sharing the point you are making by what I too am discovering.

You said, and I quote:

This knowledge of Him is not some mystery to be unraveled by science or mathmatical formulas or religious Doctorates, or computer programs, this knowledge comes from the Creator of the Universe whispering into your spiritual ear. This to me makes it even more personal and more humbling.

YES!!!!!!  Science can learn enough to know there must be a God, an intelligent designer, just as I have no excuse from knowing the same by what can be seen by what God has made. There is no excuse! (Rom 1:20)

But, and this is a biggie!  I cannot come to a personal relationship with God, no matter how hard I study, read, pray and or meditate. For learning of him and about him is impossible until He Himself reveals Himself through His Spirit into my "spiritual ear"

As you said, this makes the relationship so much more personal and levels the playing field, because it is no longer one trying to understand God, but rather one being driven by his Spiritual direction and becoming as meek and mild as little children.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 

Very profound Joe and I do hope we are on the same page with this.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 01:22:17 PM by YellowStone »
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2007, 01:39:23 PM »


I do hope we are on the same page with this.



Not only the same page but we are dotting the same i's and crossing the same t's!  ;)

Thanks Darren for the added scripture and your observations.

His Peace to you Brother,

Joe
Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2007, 02:32:47 PM »

To add Darren

You say : But, and this is a biggie!  I cannot come to a personal relationship with God, no matter how hard I study, read, pray and or meditate. For learning of him and about him is impossible until He Himself reveals Himself through His Spirit into my "spiritual ear"

Yes....blast of a Trumpet!!  ;D and look how Babylon claims to have a personal relationship and they offer as evidence for relationship their prayer time, study time and PH D's silk ties, tithes, Limozines and Church buildings.! ..Relationship, relationship they claim and flaunt!

What you say Darren is a biggie and hits the mark! SHOT!

We have nothing of our own accord but that which it pleases the Father to give us! lHis gifts His works and the consequence of HIS Grace on our wicked hearts making us walk in His Ways and giving to us good works to experience through His Spirit! Whew....when will we ever hear that teaching anywhere?

Beautiful thread Joe! :D

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 02:51:30 PM by Arcturus »
Logged

jER

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2007, 03:29:45 PM »

Touch'e - the sword of the Word.
For who can argue without concession to these points of truth!

Thanks Joe, and all for the blessing.

- jER
Logged

DuluthGA

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2007, 11:51:57 PM »

Thank you very much for this very special insight, Joe!!!

To show that there is another source defining musterion in this light is Crosswalk's online Strongs which first says "hidden thing, secret, mystery" then says "religious secrets confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals."

It captures the idea. 

I agree a lot is missed if just 'mystery or secret' is used; it sort of gives the idea that the matter will always be cloudy or we just won't know until we know.  But ah ha!  WE DO KNOW NOW, DON'T WE!!!  ;)

Thanks a million!!   Janice


« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 12:06:27 AM by DuluthGA »
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2007, 08:22:33 AM »

Thank you Arcturus & jER for your thoughts and comments!


I agree a lot is missed if just 'mystery or secret' is used; it sort of gives the idea that the matter will always be cloudy or we just won't know until we know.  But ah ha!  WE DO KNOW NOW, DON'T WE!!!  ;)


Hi Janice,

Yes we do, and it is the Lord personally revealing these secrets, how awesome is that? You summed it up very well with your above quote.

Thanks!

His Peace to you,

Joe
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2007, 08:27:23 PM »

Hello Everyone,

In some private conversations with a few members we have looked into this subject a bit further and this is more of what we found;

In the OT even the KJV does not contain the word "mystery" if ever it were to be used you would think it would be in the OT as God had not revealed Himself through Christ in the flesh yet. But it is true, do a word search on E-sword, no mystery!

We do however have "secret" in many places as well as "secrets."

Look at Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar;


Dan 2:28  But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

Dan 2:29  As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.

Dan 2:47  The king answered unto Daniel and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

I would think this dream was a "mystery" if there ever was one but the truth is our God is not a God of mystery but of revelation! Of course He is the One who decides when and where and who these revelations take place with.

Can you see Daniel as a type of the elect here? Being used by God to open up the eyes of those in the 2nd resurrection who do not yet know the Living God?


Here are a few more verses;

Deu 29:29  The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Job 15:8  Hast thou heard the secret of God? and dost thou restrain wisdom to thyself?

Psa 25:14  The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant.

Pro 3:32  For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.

Amo 3:7  Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Pretty powerful stuff, I think all of us have felt privileged at one time or another when a family member or a respected friend or even a person who has power over us in the earthly sense (teacher, superior at work, boss, etc.) has let us in on a secret, how much more so that the Creator of the Universe has let you in on His plan and purpose for you and all mankind?

His Peace to you,

Joe



Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2007, 08:05:23 AM »

Hello Joe

You quote  : Job 15:8  Hast thou heard the secret of God? and dost thou restrain wisdom to thyself?

I see the second witness here in Luke.

Luke 12:48 But he who DID NOT KNOW and did the things worthy of a beating shall be beaten with few lashes. For everyone to whom much is given ( is the MUCH here referring to WISDOM perhaps?) of him shall MUCH be required ( the MUCH REQUIRED here…could this mean the endurance against persecution and suffering for being slated as the wise guy or gal?rejection, envy and harm levelled against those who do know better and then what about severe trials that humble us or “splinters in the flesh” that Paul experienced to keep him balanced? Ref http://bible-truths.com/splinter.html  I think so!)

Joe you note : our God is not a God of mystery but of revelation!

To take that view deeper we could say our God is a God of transcendence.

Ray notes : Paul’s privilege in revelations was so high (maybe almost too high) that God had to answer this exaltation with the opposite of "transcendence." Something that will humble him. Something "excessive." Something that is almost "too much." Inordinately!
God’s answer and remedy to "transcendence" is "inordinately."
Here’s proof: The word "transcendence" and the word "inordinately" are both translated from the same Greek word, "[h]uper bal’lo"!  http://bible-truths.com/splinter.html 


Would this not confirm the much required to whom the much is given as demonstrated in the life of Paul? I think yes.

As you say Joe in reference to the dream of the King : I would think this dream was a "mystery"

Could THAT observation ALSO relate to the Parable's that were spoken by Jesus to the multitudes? They were not seen as mysteries. They were considered to be understood by many who did not receive or understand that the words spoken are Spirit. The dream was not understood either yet it was received just as the parables were. Did that make it a mystery or a SECRET? I think the dream was like the parable...a mystery or was it a SECRET, because the secret/revelation was not shown or disclosed yet?  It was not at the point of REVELATION or Transcendence was it? Neither were the Parables! The Parables revealed nothing! We know this much. The Words Jesus spoke were Spirit and the carnal mind can not hear or see or know the Spirit for it is at enmity and deep seated hatred against the Spirit.

So, for me The Revelation is for US who see and hear what they did not see or hear and to whom Christ is making Himself seen and known!
 
Does true revelation bring transcendence? Is that the Hallmark? TRANSCENDENCE and buffetting by the messengers of Satan to keep us balanced through trials? I think it is! Jesus has overcome the world. Those who will know Him will have overcome, transcended the world too by His Spirit.

To support this observation, consider the following.

Ecc 3: 11 A New Translation by James Mottatt. Ref LOF 15C  “He assigned each its proper time, but for the MIND OF MAN (would this be the CARNAL mind? ) He has appointed MYSTERY...

Ray notes : Next notice the last verse of the last chapter in Ecclesiastes:
“For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil” (Ecc. 12:14).
The word translated “secret” here is the Hebrew word alam. And here is what we read in Strong’s: #5956; a prim. root; to veil from sight, i.e. conceal.”
The first definition of #5760, olam is concealed; and #5760, olam is taken from #5956, alam and its definition is veil or conceal.
I went through this slightly technical explanation to prove to you the real meaning of this verse. The understanding of this verse will greatly assist our understanding of the Sovereignty of God and man’s absence of anything akin to a “free will” which could operate independently from God.
Let’s read the last version of this verse again:
“He [God] has made everything fitting [not ‘beautiful’] in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does.”  (Ecc. 3:11).
So God has made everything that there is (even though much of it is evil, ugly, and NOT ‘beautiful,’) fitting, proper, appropriate, and suited for its own season, “but” or “however”—here comes a counter proposal, if you will. So God makes EVERYTHING proper and appropriate for His plan, however…. BUT, “…He has put OBSCURITY in their hearts…” so that, or in order that, they CANNOT know or understand what it is that He is doing to them in this human existence we call “life.” What a spiritual revelation! http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html


Peace to you

Arcturus :)





« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 08:21:51 AM by Arcturus »
Logged

LittleBear

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2007, 10:21:28 AM »

I love this parable of Daniel and King Nebuchadnezzar. It is a sacred secret that God is revealing to His elect.

Joe, you ask the question, can you see Daniel as a type of elect here? Yes! Yes I can! I see King Nebuchadnezzar as a type of the rest of humanity that will be brought to the knowledge of God, through His Chosen ones.

I think in Daniel, God is revealing how He does this. There was no effort on Daniel's part in learning the interpretation of the king's dreams. God simply revealed it to him.

Dan 2:19 Then the secret was revealed to Daniel in a night vision.

God reveals His secrets to His elect in all sorts of ways. When I read, say the Lake of Fire series, Ray outlines things so simply, I sometimes sit back, and wonder why I never saw these things before. Sacred secrets revealed!

When you read the process that God used to humble King Nebuchadnezzar, it is a type of thing that God will do for every individual in the 2nd ressurection.  It was painful and humiliating. At the end of it all, King Neb praised and honoured God, and knew Him.

The last line in Dan chapter 4, King Neb says, "And those who walk in pride He is able to humble." He learned this from his own personal refining process.

This is all SO wonderful!

Ursula

Logged

rick

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2007, 01:47:14 PM »

Hey guys, I must say this is one of the best threads I have ever read since joining the forum. thanks for all the insight and may God continue to bless you with His unveiling.................rick
Logged

DuluthGA

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2007, 03:25:12 AM »

Our God is NOT a God of mystery but of REVELATION!

Once again, thanks for your insight Joe, a BIG TIME insight and rightly so.. for..

HE CALLZ DA SHOTZ!!  ALL OF THEM!

Yes! This is very POWERFUL STUFF!!  Thank you!

Big thanks to Ursula also on the insights and REVEALING of King Neb and how his scriptural references apply to God's plan for THE ELECT and THOSE COMING AFTER!!  This is so right on

Joy, Janice  :)

Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2007, 11:48:02 AM »



To take that view deeper we could say our God is a God of transcendence.

Arcturus that is an awesome way to view/describe our God and the way He communicates with His own!

Does true revelation bring transcendence? Is that the Hallmark? TRANSCENDENCE and buffetting by the messengers of Satan to keep us balanced through trials? I think it is! Jesus has overcome the world. Those who will know Him will have overcome, transcended the world too by His Spirit.

Who even knew the difference between a carnal or spiritual mind? I know that until I read about the 'Beast Within' I had no clue about this duality of mind, this bloody battle between our carnal nature and His Spirit.

Ecc 3: 11 A New Translation by James Mottatt. Ref LOF 15C  “He assigned each its proper time, but for the MIND OF MAN (would this be the CARNAL mind? ) He has appointed MYSTERY...

I actually like the way the KJV translates this verse;

Ecc 3:11  He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

"No man can find out" ......... until God shares His secrets!

Thank you Sister for sharing your observations,

Joe
 


Ursula, Rick & Janice,

Thank you for your comments, it is amazing how when we get these little insights it gives us ways of looking at scriptures in a different Light, new meanings and nuances jump right out!

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
Logged

carol70

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2007, 05:42:53 PM »

Hi Joe,

God reveals his sacred secret to the saints, as said in Colossians 1:26:

the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints
.

But we know from Ray's discussion on saints in LOF part 13:

-------------
WHO ARE THE SAINTS?

If the very elect can’t be deceived, is it possible for saints to be deceived? Yes, there is a difference. One can be a saint long before he becomes the VERY elect. Were the believers in Ephesus called, saints?

    "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE SAINTS which are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 1:1).

So, Yes, the believers in Ephesus were called saints. But were they perfect? Were they spiritually mature? Were they the VERY elect? No, they weren’t.
-------------

In Ephesians 3 and Amos 3, it says the secret is revealed to His prophets:

Eph 3:4  by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5  which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it is now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit,

Amo 3:7  For the Lord Jehovah will do nothing unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.


How do the elect compare with the saints and the prophets?  I don't have the answer - maybe someone else does!  But the point that I'm trying to make is this:  Just because God chooses to reveal his secret to the saints doesn't mean that all of those saints will go on to become the very elect.  Judas comes to mind :)

2Pe 1:10  Therefore, brothers, rather be diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things, you shall never fall.

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, cultivate your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13  For it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.


Peace and blessings,
Carol
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2007, 06:24:25 PM »

Hi Carol,

You are absolutely correct, receiving the secrets of God does not automatically give anyone a lock on being counted among the elect, in fact knowledge, wisdom etc. in and of themselves are counted by Paul as "nothing."


1Co 13:2  And though I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries (sacred secrets)  ;) and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

This is the second time I have quoted this verse in the last few minutes, hmmmmm maybe the Lord is telling me something.........

His Peace to you,

Joe 


Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2007, 06:40:31 PM »


Hello again Carol!


How do the elect compare with the saints and the prophets? 


1Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The quote you had from Ray explained that "saints" really speaks of all men eventually, all will be holy and blameless at some future point as Sons and Daughters of God. The elect are those chosen before the foundation of the world to be with Christ as He refines, purges and harvests the Father's children. The prophets of the OT were given a glimpse of this plan of salvation but do not have a part in it, that has been reserved for those who came after the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Even John the Baptist is not among the elect in the Kingdom.

Mat 11:11  Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

 
Logged

carol70

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2007, 07:34:32 PM »

Thanks Joe. :)
Logged

LittleBear

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2007, 08:56:44 PM »

Hi Carol,

Thanks for bringing this up. Just earlier today I was wondering if there was a difference between saints and the Elect. I was thinking that they were the same, so thanks for bringing up Ray's comments and clarifying this for me.

Hi Joe,

Was there any reward for the prophets in the OT? Many of them endured much. I thought they might be the elect too.

Ursula
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2007, 03:07:43 AM »


Hi Carol,

Quote
Was there any reward for the prophets in the OT? Many of them endured much. I thought they might be the elect too.

The prophets will not be in the first resurrection

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2385.0.html --------------------------

Dear Ricardo:
    No, you aren't silly.  Actually, your are correct:  John the Baptist will not be in the Kingdom before us. And that goes for all the patriarchs of old. Heb. 11 proves that none of them received the promises to them and furthermore, it proves that they will come into the Kingdom only by and through US (See Verses 39-40).

    God be with you,
    Ray
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heb 11:39  And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
v. 40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

All will gain salvation, but it must be through Jesus Christ.

2Co 5:18  "And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ..."

Though the prophets did serve God, and Christ was the God of the OT, He was yet to be born as the Savior.

Rom 10:9  Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Act 4:12  And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

But if any person has good works(gold, silver, or precious stones) in this life, and I think you could certainly say that about the prophets, it remains in them.

1Cor 3:11  For any other foundation can no one lay than the one being laid, who is Jesus Christ.
v. 12  And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
v. 13  each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

So when the prophets are raised with all the rest of humanity, they still have to go through the process of repentance, and receiving the Holy Spirit and living a righteous life.  Those people in this life that developed good character traits will keep them and the wood, hay, stubble will be burned away, however long and however many stripes it takes.  I would think the process may be very short for some, like John the Baptist.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I desired You in the night; yea, with my spirit within me I will seek You early; for when Your judgments are in the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2007, 06:36:52 AM »


http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

Hebrews was written at least a whole generation after the crucifixion and resurrection of our Lord, and at that time the saints of old had not yet received their promises, so guess what? They are all still dead in their graves awaiting the Second Resurrection, as they cannot be made perfect or complete except though those who come up in the First resurrection.
Logged

LittleBear

  • Guest
Re: Sacred Secrets
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2007, 09:18:38 AM »

Thanks Kat and Arcturus,

Love,

Ursula
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.069 seconds with 24 queries.