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Greater Sin
YellowStone:
Hi Arcturus,
Let me comment on D. Yes we have choices, but not outside of those of God. We cannot choose to do something that God does not want. For example, I cannot choose to find God, if He wants to stay hidden from me. Likewise, neither can I ignore God, if he wants to reveal himself to me. Your example of Saul/Paul is an excellent example of this. We as you say, are not outside the plan of God.
Please know that I never said and I hope not implied that God is sin.
I agree with what you say: "God is the creator of evil that is the contrast that we are learning to discern goodness and the Grace, Mercy, Power, Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Love of God. No virtue arises without the experiences of evil as the contrast."
You are right about resisiting evil, and I surely would never even consider doing much of the evil atrocities that flood our news each day. But am I free from evil or from sin? I can only answer sadly, no. My body is dead to sin.
Paul Struggling With Sin - Romans 7:7-25 [NIV]
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do–this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God–through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Wow!!! These words of Paul say it all.
But having read these words and once again your response, I can see that we are in total agreement.
I said "If we fight (resist) sin, are we not fighting (resisting) God. And you said :) "No. Resist the devil and he will flee we are told. "
Then you wrote these wonderful words: "Hate evil love good. Think on these things....whatsoever things are lovely etc....what good is this admonition if while we are thinking of everything that is good and true and of wholesome report we are surrounded by everything that is good, true and lovely. We have to become the light in the dark...That is what becoming the image of Christ is about isn't it? "
This is exactly my point!!! :) We must NOT focus on evil as if it were something our bodies could master, BUT instead focus 100% on God and all things good and true. With the mindset of a child we must have absolute trust and love in God, and pray always for his Spirit to permeate our thinking so that our thoughts and lives mirror the to the best of our God given ability, the fruits of the spirit.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
I believe we are both saying the same thing. Resisting evil is more than flirting with evil thoughts and desires, but NOT comitting the crime.
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Resisting is removing such thoughts and replacing them with such as those you mention to the best of our ability, but never forgetting that our bodies are by nature sinning machines, and sin comes from the sin living in us.
Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
Thanks so much for your response.
In Christ with Love,
Darren
Beloved:
Hi Yellowstone and Arcturus, great posts ...good meat....you both talk about choices... and this can be a very confusing subject, in the light of the Absolute Sovergnity of God.
I know I have to keep reminding myself that there is no "Free" will. Our choices are all being directed by God.
(Pro 16:9 KJVR) A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
As believers the "choice " we think we make is actually a "non choice" ....that is we die to self (what we want and desire) and follow Christ and we "obey" his comandments .....all acording to His plan.
When one has the Spirit of Christ within... it is our souls that still need to conform to the image of Christ. Christ working in us does this work. We learn to submit our will and make these kind of "non choices"
Non believers and babes in Christ who are still carnal do not "know" why or even what they are "choosing" ....they are blind and deaf and are being led by their sinful flesh .....again all according to the plan of God.
Judas did not die to self he tried to make a decision that he thought would either force Jesus to become the Great Messaih or if he didn't do it, he would then have deal with Law and the Sanhedrin.
His act was not much different from Peter's , who also tried to stop Jesus from going to the cross both verbally and with his sword. Peter had to go through three denialsof Christ because of his own macho speech and answer three "do you love me Simon" questions before he understood his actions and God's Mercy which led him to write .
(1Pe 2:25 CLV) For you were as straying sheep, but now you turned back to the Shepherd and Supervisor of your souls."
Judas was chosen to betray... a type... for all of mankind....we all have betrayed Christ at some time in our lives.
The Great throne Judgement will show us all ....our soulish and carnal nature and weaknesses ....and the need for spiritual cleansing and renewal.
Beloved
bobf:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on July 08, 2007, 12:35:23 PM ---BETRAYAL is the greater sin. Like if you throw a baby into the mouth of a Lion you have the greater sin not the Lion.
--- End quote ---
I can understand that betrayal is the greater sin. If Christ had said that Judas had the greater sin because he betrayed the Son of God that would have made sense to me. But that isn't reason Christ gave.
--- Quote ---It was not POWER that was given to Judas to betray Christ. It was God letting Judas be himself whereas Pilate had Power of State and Government and authority to execute the death penalty. Judas was wicked and acting out his wickedness. There is no power in that! :D
--- End quote ---
But how could Judas have succeeded were he not given authority by God to succeed? That's the part the bothers me. It seems to me that both were given different kinds of authority over Christ. Was Judas not doing exactly as God's hand and counsel determined to be done?
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.
Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Thanks for all your answers. I guess the difference is that Pilate was given the job to judge and pass sentence and was arrying out the job (though not justly). Judas had no such "job" of betraying the Son of God.
God bless,
Bob
Beloved:
Bobf
Judas really had the job too :D :D
the greater sin or offense is ... the betrayal ....not the judicial system itself which Pilot only represented. Gods plan was crucifixition not stoning.
beloved
bobf:
--- Quote from: Beloved on July 08, 2007, 04:53:57 PM ---Bobf
Judas really had the job too :D :D
the greater sin or offense is ... the betrayal ....not the judicial system itself which Pilot only represented. Gods plan was crucifixition not stoning.
beloved
--- End quote ---
beloved,
Yes, but Christ did not say Judas had the greater sin because he betrayed him. Had Christ said that, I would have understood it.
God bless,
Bob
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