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Greater Sin
Beloved:
I must be missing the point somewhere?
Jesus washed all 12 Apostles feet then
(Joh 13:10 CLV) Jesus is saying to him, "He who is bathed has no need, except to wash his feet, but is wholly clean. And you are clean, but not all."
(Joh 13:11 CLV) For He was aware who is giving Him up. Therefore He said that "Not all of you are clean."
(Joh 13:12 CLV) When, then, He washes their feet, and took His garments and leans back again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you?
(Joh 13:26 CLV) Jesus, then, is answering and saying, "He it is to whom I, dipping in the morsel, shall be handing it.Dipping in the morsel, then, He is taking it and giving it to Judas, son of Simon Iscariot."
(Joh 13:27 CLV) And after the morsel, then, Satan entered into that man. Jesus, then, is saying to him, "What you are doing, do more quickly."
In the garden
Joh 18:2 CLV) Now Judas also, who is giving Him up, was acquainted with the place, for often was Jesus gathered there with His disciples."
(Joh 18:3 CLV) Judas, then, getting a squad and deputies of the chief priests and Pharisees, is coming there with lanterns and torches and weapons."
(Joh 18:4 CLV) Jesus, then, being aware of all that is coming on Him, coming out, said to them, "Whom are you seeking?
(Joh 18:5 CLV) They answered Him, "Jesus, the Nazarene.Jesus is saying to them, "I am He.Now Judas, also, who is giving Him up, stood with them."
Jesus himself says
Luk 22:48 Now Jesus said to him, "Judas, with a kiss are you giving up the Son of Mankind?[/b]
Bobf ..You are right jesus did not say that Judas did betray him but Jesus did say that he... Judas ... "gave him up" and that... was the greater offence.
The jewsish leaders too were in on ...the the giving him up. both corporate and the individual offence
I hope you do not think I am knit picking ....I am trying to undertstand your dilemna and clarify my point
beloved
bobf:
--- Quote from: Beloved on July 08, 2007, 06:01:59 PM ---I must be missing the point somewhere?
Jesus washed all 12 Apostles feet then
(Joh 13:10 CLV) Jesus is saying to him, "He who is bathed has no need, except to wash his feet, but is wholly clean. And you are clean, but not all."
(Joh 13:11 CLV) For He was aware who is giving Him up. Therefore He said that "Not all of you are clean."
(Joh 13:12 CLV) When, then, He washes their feet, and took His garments and leans back again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you?
(Joh 13:26 CLV) Jesus, then, is answering and saying, "He it is to whom I, dipping in the morsel, shall be handing it.Dipping in the morsel, then, He is taking it and giving it to Judas, son of Simon Iscariot."
(Joh 13:27 CLV) And after the morsel, then, Satan entered into that man. Jesus, then, is saying to him, "What you are doing, do more quickly."
In the garden
Joh 18:2 CLV) Now Judas also, who is giving Him up, was acquainted with the place, for often was Jesus gathered there with His disciples."
(Joh 18:3 CLV) Judas, then, getting a squad and deputies of the chief priests and Pharisees, is coming there with lanterns and torches and weapons."
(Joh 18:4 CLV) Jesus, then, being aware of all that is coming on Him, coming out, said to them, "Whom are you seeking?
(Joh 18:5 CLV) They answered Him, "Jesus, the Nazarene.Jesus is saying to them, "I am He.Now Judas, also, who is giving Him up, stood with them."
Jesus himself says
Luk 22:48 Now Jesus said to him, "Judas, with a kiss are you giving up the Son of Mankind?[/b]
Bobf ..You are right jesus did not say that Judas did betray him but Jesus did say that he... Judas ... "gave him up" and that... was the greater offence.
The jewsish leaders too were in on ...the the giving him up. both corporate and the individual offence
I hope you do not think I am knit picking ....I am trying to undertstand your dilemna and clarify my point
beloved
--- End quote ---
beloved,
No, I know you are not nit-picking. We are just not connecting on what we are both saying. I realize Judas betrayed Jesus. There is no question about that. And I understand that that IS a greater sin that what Pilate did. But notice what Christ says here...
John 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Jesus is saying Judas has the greater sin than Pilate. But the reason Christ gave is not that Judas betrayed him, but that God had GIVEN the power of Pilate over Jesus. My problem was that it appeared to me that God also gave Judas the power and authortity to succeed in delivering Christ over to Pilate. So I do not understand the reasoning Christ gave. Had Christ said that Judas has the greater sin because He betrayed Christ, then I would have understood the reasoning.
God bless,
Bob
GODSown1:
Hey Bob,
I believe Darren has answered it well, Its ALL! GOD brother its HIS Plan HE has 4 each & every1 of us, ALL! of us not sum of us, Well d@s wot I cum 2 blieve! brother, thru GOD telln me hw eva HE has told me whether it was thru Ray or here in the Forum or how eva, I feel dis is ALL GOD! da choices we make etc..., Well brother my opinion Only! muchBlessnZ & I Pray HE reveels it ALL 2 U soon.
muchLOVE!! Pera
ps. HE new us b4 We were born ( in our mothers womb), HE new our every thorts, wot We r 2 say & do then!, now! & after, its HIS Plan, PEACE 2 U brother
DuluthGA:
AMEN sista Pera! And we iz all unique, each and every one of us... ALL DIFFERENT! There iz a plan goin' on!!!
And special thanks to Beloved because I very much like the concept of NON-CHOICE. Itz gud! It makes sense 2 me! A very workable thought!!!
:-* Love ya and you all, Janice :)
Deborah-Leigh:
Perhaps I should make my thoughts a little clearer.
While WE HAVE MANY CHOICES we ultimately can only make ONE CHOICE. Just like you may have many clothes to wear in your wardrobe but you can only wear one suit at a time! God knows what our choices and PREFERENCES will be because He knows us better than we know ourselves.
God makes our PREFERENCES to do evil become less and less through the experiences of evil CONSEQUENCES that He writes for us to be humbled. It is God in His Wisdom, Understanding and Love who writes the consequences for our evil choices. For me that is why there is much wisdom in the Psalm exhorting us to not envy the wicked when they appear to have no consequences for their lying cheating deceitful ways.
Psalms 37:1 Fret not yourself because of evildoers, neither be envious against those who work unrighteousness.
So Darren, I believe it is God who gives us the experience of our bad choices and who humbles us by such experiences. If we are getting away with evil actions and thoughts then it is God also who is preserving such people for the full wrath of His indignation. Mystery Babylon will fall. In this way it is God who brings all to righteousness through the circumstances of our lives or in the White Throne LOF that He writes. We know that God is the maker of the vessel that is made for His Glory or His Wrath. The evildoers that appear to be doing well are actually those reserved for punishment, correction and the hurts of the second death. They certainly should not be making us fret as the Psalm says. God is in control and He is the author and finisher of our faith.
I have said this before and Darren you picked up on it in another thread where I challenged the discussion to look at what it means to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. If I see my choices are not being corrected in this life and if I see myself getting away with evil and deception….IF I SEE this consequence and know what it means….then I should be FEARING AND TREMBLING for the second death is no place to desire! Even Jesus warned us about praying that we have the STRENGHT to stand before him and not to buckle into the lake of fire! It takes a pure heart and clean conscience to stand before the King of Kings I believe.
I do not believe that God wants us to choose evil above good. He does not Will for us to be evil, wretched and pitifully weak spiritually. That is not our destination. God makes the fail proof Plan to bring us into obedience through much suffering. We do not choose to carry our cross. God makes us do it for He makes us stand and we fall all by ourselves! Our cross is from God and the strength to carry it is also from Him.
That fact should also make us fear and tremble before the Almighty and Sovereign God as we discover through our “choices” and the consequences for them….what God has in mind for us!…or ….what vessel… for honour or dishonour into which we are being created.
Makes you think doesn't it?
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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