> General Discussions
Greater Sin
psalmsinger:
I'm sure you have read Ray's paper on the unpardonable sin and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I can't remember the title and page:) Judas delivered Jesus to the first "trial" by the church authorities in the synagogue. Those that plotted to murder Jesus, the scribes and pharisees in the synagogue church system, were the ones who delivered Jesus to the Roman authorities and recruited Judas and the mob. The desires of their hearts were in accordance with God's plan and purpose. Paul did say that Judas "repented". I think the subject was covered well in that paper. Maybe Kat can point us to the right section to review. It is my understanding that the sin was greater for those involved in the murder plot and delivering up of Christ Jesus. The consequences for that deed were greater historically speaking. When God set the law of cause and effect in motion the "punishment" or consequence always fits the crime or action. His judgment is righteous. For instance if you jump off a building, God's law of gravity causes you to fall to your hurt or death, if you are a glutton you become obese, sexual perversion breeds disease, anger and hate kill, love springing abundantly from the heart heals relationships, etc... I praise God for His wisdom in creation and I am thankful that His workmanship includes that Christ WILL BE ALL IN ALL. The faithfulness and patience that spring from the heart of Almighty God is mind boggleling!
Barbara
Chris R:
Hi All
From Rays Letter To Haggee
"Jesus answered him, "No authority have you against Me in anything, except it were given to you from above. Therefore he who is giving Me up [JEWS] to you HAS THE GREATER SIN" (John 19:11)
The Scribes and Pharisees, Fashioned the entire plot, Judas being just a pond in the scheme of things.
Read the letter to Haggee http://bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm
Peace
Chris R
YellowStone:
Hi Arcturus
And we disagree where.......? :)
I used to have great fear of my dad and tremble much when I knew I had crossed the line and whatever punishment I was to receive was well deserved. Scary, you bet. But never once did I lose sight that my dad had my best interest at heart.
So my love for my dad was always greater than my fear, just as it is for my Heavenly Father.
Arcturus, I have spent years trying to second guess God, trying to fathom his plan for me. It's hopeless, for it is not for me to know. But I do know that every opportunity given me by God, is opportunity enough to share the fruits of the Spirit with whome ever I come in contact with. I myself do not care in the least of What God has planned for me, whether I be a vessel of honor or dishonor. What is important to me is that I trust him implicitly and remain true to his Spirit that Joe so perfectly stated, speaks in the ear of my spirit. To hear, I must first listen with an open heart and a clear mind, free of any carnal understanding. In short, I must be as meek as a child, with the same mindset.
For my understanding will not ever garner me a single second to my life.
Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
It is all Him. To Him, for Him and from Him.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
I truly do not see where we differ, except for the words used. If I am wrong then please forgive me.
In Christ with Love,
Darren
mrsnacks:
This raises a question regarding Satan entering Judas to betray Christ. God foreknew Judas would give Christ up but was this all part of God's plan involving Judas making the wrong choices or God allowing Satan ( He could've forbid Satan entering Judas ) so Judas could carry out God's plan ? If the adversary didn't enter Judas would he have betrayed Jesus ? So God is the cause of all and He takes responsibility but man is accountable when he sins.
I know that God doesn't force anyone to sin - we do that on our own. But to say God is in control and is sovereign over all and nothing happens outside of His will is still confusing to me. I believe this but it still causes me to scratch my head. The only way this is possible is if God created a script and we must all say and do everything in the script. We cannot not do otherwise. Pilate had to have Jesus crucified and Judas had to betray Jesus. They could not do otherwise even if they wanted to.
Let's say I have two 2 year olds in a playpen. I know if I toss one cookie in between them they will fight for it and one will end up crying. But I don't have control over them. But to say that God has control over all can only be possible if I have them programmed to do this or that right ? I can be pretty sure that the kids will fight over the cookie. But there is always the possibility they won't even though the odds are in my favor . But God knows for sure 100 % . And is that because God sees the future perfectly only or is it both. He sees what will happen plus He causes what happens so His will can be accomplished. This is difficult framing my question and I hope you understand what I am asking. I am still in the fog slightly.
skydreamers:
I was thinking the same thing as mrsnacks, about Satan:
Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them.
Luke 22:3-4
And as for the Scribes and Pharisees, they were:
...of (their) father the devil, and (their) will is to do (their) father's desires...
John 8:44
So this leads me to think that it is ultimately Satan who "has the greater sin". So is it possible that it is Satan who is committing the "unpardonable" sin which cannot be forgiven in this age, or the age to come (millennium) but must be purged in the Lake of Fire which was prepared for him...???
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version