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Spirit vs breath
M_Oliver:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on July 09, 2007, 05:24:14 PM ---I have learned from Ray to check the Greek/Hebrew and the various translations to get a better perspective on verses that seem to contradict or are just unclear.
--- End quote ---
A lesson that has not escaped me either :). Another lesson of Ray's that has taught me oh so much is... "pay attention to the words". It is a fuel for my hangup with the translation "spirit" from a word that means "wind" or "breath" or "current of air" or "to breathe"...
"Spirit" puts a gazillion other thoughts in the average persons head that have absolutley nothing to do with the greek 4151 in my opinion. Maybe it is a personal problem I have. But why now a second person who knows what I am trying to say??
Mark
hillsbororiver:
Hello Mark,
I believe you are too narrowly defining pnuema in only one of a few definitions this word holds.
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
There are many English words that also have more than one definition, we had a thread in the Off Topic Discussion Board that had some fun with the multiple definition quirks of language, sometimes we have to read the sentence before assigning a definition.
Here are a few...
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
In the Oxford English Dictionary there are some words with as many as 45 or more different definitions, here is a list of the top five;
1 run (76)
2 set (63)
3 point (49)
4 strike (48)
5 light (47)
I am quite sure there is no language that holds a strict one definition per word rule, words and languages grow and evolve unless of course they are never used.
Hopefully this has been of some help.
His Peace to you Brother,
Joe
pylady:
Hi Joe and Mark,
I think that's what I've been doing, Joe. Trying to confine the Greek word pneuma and its Hebrew equivalent to one meaning. It doesn't work, and becomes very obvious when you look at all the verses in which this word appears.
I'm sure Mark 3:30 shouldn't be translated "...they said he hath an unclean WIND...! So it can get pretty ludicrous if we try to confine a word to one meaning. ;D ;D
But I do see a connection between wind or breeze and spirit in some verses.
It's more like the spirit is like the wind in this way or that way.
Obviously I am not a Greek or Hebrew scholar, a translator or a Biblical scholar.
However, I don't think I went down a dead end street because I did learn much from my study, and even, maybe, got a small glimpse into God's personality!
As Kat said we must move to a different realm of understanding in our minds, to begn to comprehend the Spirit.
However, I feel like I'm on a slippery slope here, and don't want to slide into heretical territory as I think outloud :o So I will accept the translations and meaning as they are presented until He sees fit to give us a better understanding of Spirit.
With Christian Love,
Cindy
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: pylady on July 09, 2007, 10:47:58 PM ---
But I do see a connection between wind or breeze and spirit in some verses.
It's more like the spirit is like the wind in this way or that way.
--- End quote ---
Hi Cindy,
I agree 100% about how these definitions (of pneuma) in some instances can even overlap. Spirit gives life, God (Spirit) breathed life into Adam making him a living soul, take away his spirit and he stops breathing and is dead, a soul without spirit is not breathing and is quite dead. They all tend to fit together here, but not in all cases.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
DuluthGA:
Hi Cindy,
I enjoyed this thread and just thought I'd give you an FYI about your accidentally typing the wrong verse number. Actually, I was reading along and went to check that very verse and it wasn't the right one. I don't know if you know about the "modify" button in the upper right-hand corner when composing a post. You can always press it and go back to change anything on your post. I go back and correct myself all the time! ;D
Of course, you can always post another post, like you did, stating the correction as well.
Thanks and God bless! Janice :)
P.S. I've had strange computer-glitchy things happen here on the forum as well. Nothing real serious, kind of like your underline button not stopping.
Also, the CLNT and Emphatic Diaglott are online.
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