Question about Concordant Group

[DuluthGA]

When reading on the forum somewhere (but lost my place and now can't find it), I believe I was reading a thread where someone quoted Ray as saying he was going to write out his disapproval/disagreements with the Concordant Group for his readers to know.

Does anyone or moderator know if Ray did this?  If so, where to find?  If he hasn't done this yet, do you know the jist of the situation?

Much thanks in advance, Janice

[musicman]

I know one of the problems is that they believe that jewish and gentiles are reserected seperately.  Don't know what else Ray said about them. 

[DuluthGA]

Thank you Musicman!  Appreciate!

Joy to you!  Janice

[gmik]

Is this group involved in publishing the Concordant Literal translation??

If so seems like they were in error in a few places-at least from the way we believe.

[DuluthGA]

Yes Gena, same group.  I remember reading somewhere in Ray's stacks and stacks of stuff that there are a number of problems with the CLT, and that would stand to reason as none are perfect.  Although I refer to CLNT quite a bit, I simply find it a little difficult to read because it uses wierd, off-the-beaten-track type of words.  But I would like to get to the bottom of this inquiry and might have to ask Ray but don't want to bother him.

Have a great week!    Janice

[chuckt]

even the CLT is being revised as all translations are, i personally love the CLV

as well as interlinear hebrew and greek.

i believe  the main goup is "dispensational" ?? ie resurrection to the stoning of steven.

at the road to damascus Jesus gave the commision to "gentiles"..............

i really hate all the labels and division, but hey? what ya gonna do?

i fellowship with some of these and we  just dont argue about it.


inlove
chuckt aka euty

[DuluthGA]

Hi Chuck! 

Well, I do have some love for the CLNT [I do not have CLOT and cannot get it online] in that it sure does follow very very closely with the (online) greek english interlinear.  So that is a big plus and of course it reads easier than the interlinear.

Hmmm... I will look up dispensationalism... don't know much about it....

It's good not to be too nit-picky when fellowshipping in good spirit.   

Thanks!  More later, Janice

[musicman]

Actually, check Concordant teachings on the front page.  It's in the e-mails section.

[Extol]

Janice,
Here is the e-mail musicman mentioned:

http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#zender

Denny,

[after some things personal...]


I came to understand a doctrine held by most people connected with the Concordant Publishing Concern (which includes Jeff and many of his Biblical teacher friends), with which I absolutely could not disagree more. It is the teaching that there are TWO administrations, and almost two of everything:

Two ADMINISTRATIONS

Two CALLINGS

Two GOSPELS [Peter vs. Paul]

Two RACIAL distinctions [the circumcision Jews and the uncircumcision Gentiles]

Two RETURNS of Christ for His TWO sets of saints

Two RESURRECTIONS [one at a co-called Rapture, and the other for the National lineage of Israel]

Two REWARDS [again, one for Paul's group and one for Peter's]

Two area of RULERSHIP [one for Israel on this earth, the other in the Heavens for the believers following Paul's gospel]

Two DIFFERENT BODIES [one physical, terrestrial for earth-bound saints and one spiritual for those ruling in outer space--yes, they believe heaven is outer space], etc.

I completely Scripturally destroy this unscriptural and foolish doctrine with about two thousand Scriptures and a hundred pages in my paper located on the bible-truths.com site entitled: "EXPOSING THE SECRET RAPTURE THEORY."  It is my sincere hope and prayer that everyone will read my paper before they get involved in this deceitful doctrine.

[ ... ]

I want to say this as clear as I possible can so as to not be misunderstood in the least by anyone: I believe that the doctrine of TWO ADMINISTRATIONS to be a damnable doctrine of demons. That's how strongly I feel about it. Read my paper...

Here is the sad thing about all this:  There are numerous studies and gatherings of people around the country who absolutely and Scripturally, believe that God is going to save all humanity. And that is a good thing.  However, that knowledge alone is NOT THE WHOLE GOSPEL, as Jeff suggests. There is more, MUCH MORE!  Everyone knows that I have quoted I Tim. 2:4 and written more about that one verse than maybe anyone else known, and yet, that verse alone is not the WHOLE GOSPEL.  It is merely the CONCLUSION, THE AIM, THE PURPOSE, THE GOAL, THE CONSUMMATION of the gospel. And yes, it is the grandest conclusion possible.

However, the process of going from being "CARNALLY MINDED which is DEATH, to being SPIRITUALLY MINDED which is LIFE AND PEACE" (Rom. 8:6), is conspicuously missing from their  teachings, inasmuch as the many HUNDREDS of "good works" and "ideal acts" mentioned by this same Apostle Paul are nearly frowned upon.   And I have lengthy letters from among their teachers who strongly state as much!

Here is just enough to acquaint you with this teaching from a 56-page paper sent to me by the author entitled:  'APPREHENDING THE EONS TO ADJUST TO A DECLARATION OF GOD.' (Don't let that title throw you, as I also prove this very title to be UNSCRIPTURAL).   In it we read:

"...there was/is/will always be, a difference in the teaching of Paul and the teaching of , not only Peter, but our Lord, as well."

And this absurd statement: 

"Without keeping the administration of grace clearly separate in our understanding, when we attempt to incorporate the Lord's teaching and that of Cephas, Peter, we can and do contradict proper reasoning."

This statement COMPLETELY OVERWHELMS ME!  Notice that the "administration of GRACED" must be kept "SEPARATE" from the "Lord's teaching"!

UNBELIEVABLE! And that is not a slip of typewriter keys, this author and thousands who believe in the salvation of all firmly believe this to be true. Where on God's earth do they think "grace" came from in the first place? Was Paul the "inventor of grace?" 

"For the law was given by Moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by JESUS CHRIST" (John 1:17),

Not Paul!! And what is the reason given for keeping these supposedly incompatible administrations of Jesus and Paul separate? Answer: Because it will "...contradict proper reasoning." It is the IMPROPER CARNAL REASONING that came up with this stupid and unscriptural doctrine in the first place.

If there is enough interest, I will make all of these rebuttals of mine public on our site one day.

It is for just such reasons as those stated above that I do not recommend anyone attend these meetings around the country. Yes, it is good that they teach the salvation of all, but there is a whole lot more to the gospel than that one grand conclusion. Jeff presents two and two only options with regards to the gospel:

Either we work, keep laws, do good deeds, apply human will and human effort as part of our salvation, or

Salvation is accomplished without ANY good works or ideal acts, without ANY human will, choices, or effort (which is considered PURE GRACE).

Nothing could be further from the truth--BOTH of these options are wrong.

Jesus Christ is coming to put down His enemies when He returns, but not because they didn't "BELIEVE" the gospel, but because they didn't "OBEY" the gospel. And just who would ever propose such a thing? Let's try The Apostle Paul: 

II Thes. 1:8--"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."

Or, let me quote it from their own Version:

"...in flaming fire, dealing out vengeance to those who are not acquainted with God and those who are NOT OBEYING THE EVANGEL [gospel] OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST..." (Concordant Literal New Testament).

And let's not misunderstand the meaning of that word "obey" from the Greek word "hupakouo" which means "to HEED or CONFORM to a command" (Strong's #5219, p. 256).  Notice how this same Greek word is used in Acts 6:7--

"And the word of God grows, and the number of disciples in Jerusalem multiplied tremendously, Besides, a vast throng of the priests OBEYED THE FAITH" (Concordant Version).

Wow! Imagine that: The collective teachings of Jesus which are classified as "THE faith" is something that can and MUST BE, OBEYED!

And the reason that faith must be obeyed is because of another marvelous doctrine that one is not likely to ever hear quoted at a Concordant meeting, and it is this:

"For the GRACE of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, TEACHING US [image that, 'grace' is a VERB THAT DOES SOMETHING--IT TEACHES US SOMETHING. What?...] ...TEACHING US that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, RIGHTEOUSLY, AND GODLY, in this present world" (That again would be, The Apostle Paul to Titus, Titus 2:11-12).

And, so what I have said does not contradict salvation by faith for all humanity, but it certainly does add to it the teachings of Jesus and Paul and all the apostles, that there certainly is something to do, to obey, to live out. Failure to OBEY the Gospel will culminate in such an one not even being in the first resurrection or given eonian life ahead of the rest of humanity! There are hundreds and hundreds of commands by none other than Paul himself, clearly stating what a believe must obey. And you can take that to the bank, and you can take that to your grave. 

And so, while the world of Christendom is still back trying to keep the Law of Moses a little better than Moses did, the Concordant people (and many others not associated with Concordant, but who don't believe Titus 2:11-12), shy away from the teaching of all law and obedience to good works, thinking that law and good works contradict grace.

Then there are those who are teaching that the faith of Jesus Christ and the grace of God will CAUSE the elect to live Godly lives by OBEYING all the spiritual laws commands that are far far superior to the law of Moses and its administration of death.

Most in the Concordant group of believers, and most in Christendom, have never even HEARD of the Seven Spiritual Laws in the New Covenant. Let me at least list them (we can discuss them at a later date). They all overlap, however, there are seven laws listed in the New Testament: 

The Law of God...Heb. 10;16,

The Law of Christ...Gal. 6:2,

The Law of the Spirit...Rom. 8:2,

The Law of Righteousness...Rom. 9:30-31,

The Law of Faith...Rom. 3:27,

The Law of Liberty...James 1:25, and

The Law of Life...Gal. 3:11, 6:8.

If you are wondering where the "law of LOVE" is, don't, seeing that the Jesus Christ and God His Father ARE LOVE.

May God be with you all and grant to you the wisdom and discernment of these matters so as to live Godly in His presence,

Ray

[DuluthGA]

BINGO, Extol!!!  MANY THANKS!!!  I've finally gotten to the bottom of this!

Great job and thank you for taking your time to help me!



You've got a friend!

Thanks also Musicman, big time!

Joy, Janice

[gmik]

Yes, thanks Extol.  That was excellent.

[chuckt]

HEY ALL.

here in my town i fellowship with a group. about half of the group believe in the two administrations the other half does not. we break bread and have a meal, fellowship and  everyone gets to talk, there is no one person who rules the group.

is there anything wrong with this?

thanks
chuckt

[musicman]

Not if the bread your breaking is to make a sandwitch.

[chuckt]

we have sandwiches ,soup, last time pizza..................

[gmik]

Sounds cool.

Do you ever get into problems if discussing the differences come up or do you not discuss it at all???

Euty, it took a while but I am really getting in to reading the Concordant version, not just to use it for study.

[chuckt]

Sounds cool.

Do you ever get into problems if discussing the differences come up or do you not discuss it at all???

Euty, it took a while but I am really getting in to reading the Concordant version, not just to use it for study.

Hi G.

first and formost we are not part of the "concordant group" although there are a couple  our group who i beleive are.

no we dont really discuss it, no reason too, it has come up but  there has been no strife, mostly we discuss other things like

personal things God is doing inour life, definition of words and  things of that nature, its really a blessing just to fellowship

with real live people who beleive in UR. 


i find the CLV wonderfull  it is difficult in places but no biggie for me.

God bless
chuckt

[DuluthGA]

I am looking forward for my first fellowship session with you all soon; thanks for the invite Chuckt!

It will be a novel experience to be among a small group of URists if nothing else but to have prayer and simply PRAISE HIM and shake a few hands.  I understand you when you say that this is not "a Concordant group" so to speak.  Thanks for the clarification!!

Yep, HO! Lookin' forward to it!!!  With joy, Janice