> General Discussions
Do they elect know they are elect or is it wait and see ?
YellowStone:
Hi Diana,
I really like the way you explained the word confident. For this is how I see it to, I cannot be confident in my ability to win the race, for if it were up to me, I would never even qualify. But yes, I am very confident in God to lead me and guide me in all that I must do so as to win the prize. There is no single winner. Perhpas it is more like a life long marathon, along a steep narrow, twisty road full of rocks and pot holes and all things nasty; with breathtaking view. Where all that are still on this road at the end are winners/
I think this fits with what Christ was saying in Mat 20:1-16 (I posted it below)
Some of the chosen will have spen ttheir entire life dealing with all kinds of hardships, while others may endure very litte. It is all dependent on when they are called by God. Some might be called very early in their life while others a called in tehir twighlight years. The calling is the same, the road changes not and all should be confident that God has placed them exactrly where they need for a reason.
I am rambling, sorry.
Great post,
Love in Christ,
Darren
chuckt:
hi all....good thread and posts.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
i beleive here is another word which has become a stumbling block. are we growing in mercy? meekness, are we longsuffering? are we growing in love and forgivness giving up anger and resentment of past wrongs?
then we are in good shape and if we add these 7 things to our fath we are becoming the 8 day man, a new creation:
2Pe 1:5 ¶ And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness LOVE.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
in love
chuckt
mrsnacks:
Thanks for all the input. I understand confidence now. It is not that I am confident in my abilities. It is not about me but all about Christ. Confidence in Him and His Word. His Word that He will never leave us nor forsake us. Confidence in Him as the Potter and He will succeed in acomplishing His will in us. It depends upon Him and not us. We just submit.
DuluthGA:
And I agree completely Diana and Snacks. I could not be confident in myself; that is a given, or that is to say an understood or implied concept.
And when I (or others) wonder if I'm being carnal or full of zeal for serving my Lord and being servant of all, the only answer is 'God knows.'
The thing that has struck me most about Ray's teachings is not so much all the deceptions being taught out there but what true Christianty really is, being a follower of Christ and all His commands (not just some) and being chastened in this life by Him and going through persecution on His behalf (granted our lives are not at stake much in this country but our quality of life is in this regard) and going through judgment now and the fiery trials that refine us and going through our sufferings and laying them at the foot of His cross because He suffered for us. Not many want to hear all this; they want to hear of the "smooooth things."
Those that do make the 1st rez -- the elect -- will have their suffering already out of the way. So that's a comfort I guess(?) :)
Phil 1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Have a good day! Janice
DuluthGA:
Hello MrSnacks, me again. Still scratchin' my head and wonderin' about this topic of "am I an 'elect' and in the first resurrection" or not. If I may, I would like to carry on with this thread for another note. It will help edify things for myself as I hope they will for you and perhaps others. [It doesn't matter to me whether there are two or three concurrent similar threads on this matter; this is the one in which I will hopefully be learning more.] ;)
I indeed would like to learn spiritual matters the correct way, so please shoot whatever I now present full of holes for my eventual benefit and thanks in advance for that.
It is interesting to me that I have developed my concept of possibly being an 'elect' and in the first resurrection from Ray's teachings. Quite actually, I was somewhat surprised that no one else of Ray's readers chimed in with support on this thought. I do not wish to appear a heretic nor self-righteous or prideful nor lacking in humility. I hope this final post will secure that.
I've gone back over some of Ray's material and wish to unfurl a few quotes of his with comments of mine afterwards. These will I hope show why I have objectively come to feel I am an elect on a good day (with nothing to do with it of myself.) :) Believe me, throughout the day and especially during my bedtime prayers, I shake my head and wonder "Father and Lord, what are you going to do with me?" [A no goodnik at times. :'(] But I truly believe "all things are possible with Him."
Quotes from Ray that may help answer ‘am I an elect/will I make the first resurrection?’
“Whether God “JUDGES” us (and later the wicked world), or “GRACES” us, He does it THE SAME WAY!!” [Emphasis his, P. 18 of LOF Part 3 – Judgment Must Begin at the House of God.] My comment: I honestly don’t believe I am among ‘the wicked’ of this world.
“The reason we are not “condemned” with the world is because we accept God’s judgment in our lives. Rom 8: 1: There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” [Emphasis his, P. 26 LOF Part 3] I have volunteered to receive the judgments of God by fire now and for the rest of my life. I may not “endure until the end,” and I may be “disqualified,” [according to the Scriptures] but that will depend on God’s will and not what I do henceforth.
“The good news is that if we have a volunteering heart and accept the judgments of God on our lives now, we will be sure to avoid the harsher judgment on the whole world reserved for “that day.” [He references 1Cor 11: 32] [P. 17 of LOF Part 3] This is what has been given me to do by God and is in fact what I am doing.
“… BUT, if any are “without chastisement” then they are “********, and NOT sons.” [Ref: Heb 12: 8] ….. ******** are born ******** and did not create themselves or choose to be ********…!!!” [Emphasis his, P. 4 of LOF Part 5 A Scriptural Explanation of the LOF] I believe I was not born a ‘*******’ but a member of the household of God by His will and mercy. Furthermore, I believe I have been given the “earnest of His spirit" according to Scripture as follows:
2Cor 1: 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Back to quotes from Ray:
“Ever consider how the thief on the cross was saved? It doesn’t say whether he was a Jew and circumcised or Gentile and baptized – all it says is that he was a sinner and he acknowledged it, (remember that it was for just such sinners that Jesus was commissioned by God to come into the world in the first place.) Did the thief on the cross believe on the name of Jesus Christ? Did he acknowledge Christ as his Lord and Master? Did he believe that God would raise Him from the dead? Yes, he did. [Ref: Luke 23: 40-43] The thief believed that Jesus was the Christ and the Savior (‘this Man has done nothing amiss.’) He acknowledged Him as his Lord and Master (calling Him Lord.) He knew that in order for Jesus to “come into” His kingdom, God would have to resurrect Him from the dead, for soon they would all be dead. Simple, isn’t it?” [P. 14-15 LOF Part 5] Stated humbly and without self-pride, I believe it has been given to me to be more spiritually mature in Christ than the thief on the cross whom Christ said would be in His kingdom. (I think this implies the first resurrection, I could be wrong. If I am wrong, that is, he'll be in the second resurrection, please disregard this paragraph.)
“These two sets of Scriptures [Ray lists several] will explain each other. Remember that we learned there are two groups of people to be judged: (1) The whole world in the day of judging (Acts 17: 31), and (2) The house of God NOW (1Pet 4: 17 & Icor 11: 32.) Since God is no respecter of persons, He judges both groups by the same means.” Again, I believe I am in the house of God now and will therefore as an elect make the first resurrection.
“And so judgment is upon the building of God’s house as each individual believer is framed and fitted for the calling that God has for each individual. This judgment began in the days of the Apostles after the resurrection of our Lord. It continued generation after generation down through the age until today when it yet continues. And it will continue still further until the entire harvest of firstfruits is completed. Remember we already learned that if we would judge ourselves now, Paul said we would not be condemned with the world later.” (1Cor 11: 32) [Underline mine] [P.5 LOF Part 5] Again, I have volunteered for judgment now and for the rest of my life.
There are other subjective reasons why I feel the 'sacred secret' knowledge and confidence to (perhaps) become an 'elect.' They are very personal, so I won't elaborate, but my stature as a general human has become very very low in many aspects over the past ten years. I truly am one of God's little nothings. BUT I AM JOYFUL AND I HAVE PEACE IN HIM AND HIS PLAN! And it is given to me to truly love and cherish the truths Ray teaches!
All I know MrSnacks is ...... I wasn't looking for Him a year and a half ago....... He was looking for me [after decades of pursuing me off and on!] ..... and He already has done something pretty amazing with me.
Thank you very much for this "redundant/duplicate" thread. ;) Janice
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