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Do they elect know they are elect or is it wait and see ?

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carol70:

--- Quote from: Snowfire on July 11, 2007, 01:33:10 AM ---To me while in the flesh now,
Knowing verses Being an Elect are two different things.

--- End quote ---

I agree completely and it makes me a bit fearful for...

Luk 12:47  And that servant who knew his lord's will and did not prepare, nor did according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48  But he not knowing, and doing things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be required. And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

It's like the worst case scenario would be to know the truth, go through much suffering and chastisement in this life, but not endure to the end and still have to go through judgment again later, where it will be even worse for those who know the real deal (MANY stripes)!!!  Most days it feels like I'm failing miserably at running this race. :(

Ray discusses the difference between the saints and the elect in LOF part XIII.  I found it to be very helpful in my understanding of where I might be in the realm of things.

http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html

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Where is the Church? Does she dwell in the spiritual realms of heaven? No. Is she located in the sea? No. She dwells in the earth. She is higher than the sea, but lower than heaven; she dwells in the earth. These are the three realms spoken of in Revelation. If we can’t get our thinking above the symbols themselves, we will never ever understand the book of Revelation.

The saints have left the earth in their spiritual walk with God. Those who are now ‘spiritually-minded;’ dwell in heaven—a much much higher realm than that of the earth. And yet… and YET, of the wild beast that comes out of the sea in Revelation 13, we are told:

    "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle and them that [spiritually] dwell in heaven. And it was given unto Him [the wild beast] to make war with the saints, and TO OVERCOME THEM: and power was given him over ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS" (Verses 6-7).

...

Did Jesus ever warn us of this wild beast? Did the apostles? Did Paul to the nations, warn of this evil power? How could the saints themselves, be deceived by this wild beast? I thought that the very elect of God CANNOT be deceived:

    "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).

Ah, but it is NOT POSSIBLE to deceive the very elect! Will someone tell me what’s going on here with this wild beast?

WHO ARE THE SAINTS?

If the very elect can’t be deceived, is it possible for saints to be deceived? Yes, there is a difference. One can be a saint long before he becomes the VERY elect. Were the believers in Ephesus called, saints?

    "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE SAINTS which are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 1:1).

So, Yes, the believers in Ephesus were called saints. But were they perfect? Were they spiritually mature? Were they the VERY elect? No, they weren’t.

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So, it's my understanding that saints are those with "eyes to see and ears to hear" but are not yet spiritually mature nor part of the elect so they can still be deceived.

Love and peace,
Carol

Kat:
The way I have come to see the elect, is they are individuals that God has determined from the beginning would be His special people down through the generations since Christ.  

Eph 1:4  according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

So He knows in each generation who His elect are.  But they are in the world at first, deceived, living by the lusts of the flesh.

Tit 3:3  For we ourselves also were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, slaving for various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another.

1Pe 2:25  For you were as sheep going astray, but now you are turned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

These elect are being given experiences all their lives, so they can learn good and evil.  Christ is with them, but not in them, but at the appointed time Christ sends His Spirit into them.

Act 8:14  Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,
First they received the word of God, then they received the Holy Spirit later.
v. 15  who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
v. 16  For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.

John 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
v. 17  the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.

These verses also say, to me, that people can actually have some degree of understanding of the truth, before they receive the Holy Spirit, as in Acts 8:14.  This is significant, in that so many seems to understand this truth, but do not stick with it.
So the Spirit is given to the elect and they are prepared and trained and shaped into His image.

Eph 2:10  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 8:29  For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.

If you are the true elect your calling is sure.  

Joh 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
v. 29  My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

But I think to keep those chosen humbled, they can not know for sure.  Because we can see in scripture, that there are those believers that turn away and lose out.

Rom 11:21  For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you.
v. 22  Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

2John 1:8  Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.

Why admolished us to be faithful, unless there are those who are not.

Act 11:23  When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad, and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose,

Rev 2:10  Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Rev 17:14  These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."

But we should strive always to be among the blessed few.

1Ti 6:11  But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
v. 12  Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Luke 13:24  "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

DuluthGA:
Thanks Kat, great verses; and thanks all. 

After going around and around with this in my mind, I think Darren ["As for knowing what God's plans are for me, only He can know."] and Snowfire ["Knowing versus Being an Elect are two different things."] I henceforth shall refrain from thinking in terms of feeling like a chosen/or elect.  Both of you have hit the nail on the head, and I am grateful. 

Carol, thanks, I will check out LOF XIII as well, and I appreciate realizing the Greek words are different for saints and elect.  Saints = hagios =holy ones, elect = eklektos = chosen ones.

Gena, I guess we can only wonder how few elects there are and have been.  Your other question:  I am assuming that you don't have to believe like we do. Right??" would make for a good new thread!  But I am too newbie to know how to respond to that one.

Take CARE, Janice







 
 


   

DuluthGA:
Just absolutely loving having a conversation with myself...   ;D ... I go on to thrash this out for myself, being very very thankful to Gena for directing me to my highlighted notes of LOF Part 13.  [Sigh... it ain't easy bein' me folks... ] Hopefully others will benefit.  Here we have it... more insights from Ray with my comments:

NOTES ABOUT ELECT from LOF Part 13 [All emphasis his quotes.]

“The very elect are all “companions and brothers” in our quest for the Kingdom of Jesus Christ.”  [P.7 ]  My comment:  We who are in the process of becoming the elect are in a quest for the kingdom.

“Every one who is chosen out from the called will have first built their spiritual house upon the sand, and it will FALL!   Every one who is of the chosen FEW will leave his “First love” (Rev 2: 4.)  There is a time when all of the chosen will “look back” and see a time when they were not ‘… FIT for the Kingdom of God” (Luke 9: 62.)  It happened to Peter, it happened to the other eleven apostles, it happened to Paul, it happened to Paul’s follower, it happened to the entire early church, it will happen to US!” [P. 11 LOF]  My comment:  I believe I am in this process now and will hopefully continue henceforth. (God gives us 'hope', Rom 8: 20.)

“Now for all of you whom God is calling only, you will not believe what I am saying, you will not do what I am teaching you, and you will not recover (in this lifetime) from the disaster of building your spiritual house (life) upon the sand.  But what about those of you whom God is calling AND choosing?” [P. 13 ] My comment:  I fully believe God is calling and choosing me now through Ray’s writings and by circumstantial evidence in my life.

“When God chooses us FROM AMONG the called, we become separate from their doctrines and sins.  We are still “The Church of the Living God,” but we are a peculiar people that no longer follows the traditions of men, which the many called who are building the house upon the sand continue to follow.  Therefore, WE WILL SEE THE BEAST that comes up out of the sea.  We will be forced to WAR with the beast from the sea.  And we will be OVERCOME by the wild beast.”

There are three realms spoken of in Revelation:  sea, earth and heaven…. The angels [messengers] of God communicate things from heaven to both the earth and the sea… There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding.  The lowest of all is the sea.  Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth.   And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven.  ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God.” [P.17]  My comment:  Reiterating Ray, God chooses us … and we become separate..”  I believe I am part of this continuing and ongoing process;

“The saints have left the earth in their spiritual walk with God.  Those who are now ‘spiritually minded’ dwell in heaven – a much much higher realm than that of the earth.”  [P.18]

“And since God is not only calling some of us but choosing us also, God begins to teach us anew.  And the first thing He begins to show us is the WILD BEAST coming up out of the sea that is the CAUSE of our being overcome and the CAUSE of our spiritual house falling!  … But for those whom God is both calling AND choosing, they will RISE UP AGAIN… [P.22]  My comment: Again, I feel per these writings that I am part of God’s choosing process, and I rejoice in this process.  I do not think He will fail at what He is intending.  Have I heard this sentiment, perhaps, somewhere before….?????  Do I speak as a fool… ??    ;)

Until some new light shows up to my spiritual eyes... for now, although I do not know [indeed different from being] I am a chosen; I do, however, believe I am part of the process of becoming chosen if it is in His will.  AND I REJOICE IN THIS!  I think you should too.  Aren’t Ray’s writings worth something in the grand scheme of things?

Thank you all for your patience on this special matter to me.

I praise God for you all, and I say amen and amen to His process, Janice

skydreamers:
Amen Janice, very cool 8) :D ;D!!

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