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Author Topic: A question about Jesus in Bethany  (Read 9522 times)

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lilitalienboi16

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A question about Jesus in Bethany
« on: July 11, 2007, 05:45:22 PM »

Anyone have any insight on this matter, someone asked this and i couldn't figure out how to respond.

Christianity Portrays Jesus Reasoning to be Unjust:
Matthew 26:6-13: 6.Now when Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, 7. a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head, as he sat at table. 8. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, “Why this waste? 9. For this ointment might have been sold for a large sum, and given to the poor.” 10. But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. 11. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me. 12. In pouring this ointment on my body she has done it to prepare me for burial. 13. Truly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her.”
Jesus is on record as preferring kindness to himself, in place of the poor. His reasoning is that he will not always be around. Therefore one must prefer to share oil with Jesus than using the monetary value of that oil to support the needy.


This persong ot me thinking, and now i'm curiouse lol, Why did Jesus tell them this? Is there more then meets the eye here?

Ok well thx for any responces,

Alex

EDIT: At the request of others, here is MARKS ACCOUNT of this;

Mark 14:3-9
   

 3And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.

 4And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?

 5For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.

 6And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.

 7For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

 8She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

 9Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.


This was all i could find. Thoughts?

I'm praying for answers and understanding i don't deserve, i don't want to see it the carnal way but right now its all i see, 'SELFISH JESUS CRYS THE BEAST', grrr i don't like the beast ><

« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 10:31:21 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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UncleBeau

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2007, 06:28:11 PM »

I'll quote this one..."Therefore one must prefer to share oil with Jesus than using the monetary value of that oil to support the needy."....Hold on a minute...Didn't Jesus say:"In pouring this ointment on my body she has done it to prepare me for burial"? Well, there's her reason why, isn't it? Did the scripture say that she "must" prefer it? The Disciples looked at WHAT she did without considering WHY. What I'm getting at is that's a very BIG assumption to assume that His burial was more important than the poor in all cases for all times. Was he not buried ONCE? Try looking up any other accounts in the other gospels and see if this one leaves anything out.

your friend,
-Beau
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rk12201960

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2007, 07:31:37 PM »

Hi Alex,
This is how I see it.
Jesus always feed the hungry healed the sick and gave most of his time to everyone but himself.
this being understood we have to think along those lines as it where.

I truly believe Jesus was defending her display of love towards him. Why?
He said that she was preparing hm for burial therefor she had to understand what Jesus was about to suffer. as I think at that time the others didn't have a clue as to what she understood.

I think this was a pure act of love for Christ and that's what He was defending, not himself.

Randy
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 05:42:33 AM by Randy »
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musicman

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 08:30:29 PM »

I have wondered this my-self.  Jesus teaches selflessness and yet He almost appears selfish here.  However, I think He is critical of the deciples for not recognizing who He is.  He could have said, I'm the Son of God.  I can feed the poor whenever I want.  Recognize me for who I am.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2007, 10:18:48 PM »

Hi Alex,
This is how I see it.
Jesus always feed the hungry healed the sick and gave most of his time to everyone but himself.
this being understood we have to think along those lines as it where.

I truly believe Jesus was defending her display of love towards him. Why?
He said that she was preparing hm for burial therefor she had to understand what Jesus was about to suffer. as I think at that time the disciples didn't have a clue as to what she understood.

I think this was a pure act of love for Christ and that's what He was defending, not himself.

Randy


Hmm randy, ty for that imput that does bring something new to think about.

Jesus was defending the act of love, not Himself above the poor. Okay i can see that.

To beau; ill try and look up a passage that perhaps is similar to this in the other gospels to see what if anything was left out.

Ty all of you for your answers, and yes if we do not have the right mind, the mind of Christ, it does almost certainly appear to the carnal mind that Christ si bieng VERY SELFISH. That is the BEAST in me who sees t his, but what says the saint in me? Unfortunately i have not been given understanding on this passage yet, but if we keep digging, i'm su re we can go somewhere here that would lead us closer to the truth.

Anyone else have any imput? Does anyone know if ray touches on this specific s cripture at all?

God bless,

Alex
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ciy

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2007, 10:44:57 PM »

It is spiritual.  All of the words of the bible are spiritual.  The letter kills the spirit gives life. 

We are to focus on Christ and not the cares of this world.  You can give the poor money and when that money is spent they still will be poor in this world.
Many people give money to the poor from Frank Sinatra to Bill Gates, but what has that done for the kingdom of heaven.  Our good works are as filthy rags. 

Please do not misunderstand me.  I am not being heartless toward the poor, but give to the kingdom first and trust God.  If someone has $20 to give, I believe it would be better to send it to Ray Smith that will help spread the true gospel to the world than it would to give to someone so they can eat a big mac and buy some clothes.  Build up the bretheren.

The kingdom of God is what we need to focus on in this world and to do so we must not be so involved in the physical factors of this world system. 

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.  If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15

I know we are all at different levels of knowledge, but we should always encourage each other to go further into the meat of the Word.  It is a "hard teaching" the plan of God, but remember "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that Jesus speaks to you, they are spirit and they are life.  But there are some of you that believe not."

God has you in His right hand.
CIY
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Shmeggly

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2007, 10:45:53 PM »

I have been struggling lately, and maybe that will reflect my thoughts.

I'm with you on this Alex....as far as not knowing the why of it. 

 To me, it's not clear why He did it like He did.  When I read it this is what I think...

The money could have been used on the poor.  Jesus didn't need it for His burial or anything else.  His plan still would have been carried out.  We can argue however we want, but it still was a years' wages poured out on his feet....and for what purpose?  So it could be told throughout history? 

I must admit I am very cynical right now, and questioning God about a lot of things.  To me that scripture doesn't explain anything...certainly not a reason.  Unless it's "He's the Son of God!"  Well, of course He is!  So why did He need that particular thing done for Him?  To me it doesn't make sense....if someone can explain the reason, I will be glad to change my attitude....in fact, I am going to post right now....about a few things really bothering me for awhile....J
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2007, 10:53:12 PM »

I have been struggling lately, and maybe that will reflect my thoughts.

I'm with you on this Alex....as far as not knowing the why of it. 

 To me, it's not clear why He did it like He did.  When I read it this is what I think...

The money could have been used on the poor.  Jesus didn't need it for His burial or anything else.  His plan still would have been carried out.  We can argue however we want, but it still was a years' wages poured out on his feet....and for what purpose?  So it could be told throughout history? 

I must admit I am very cynical right now, and questioning God about a lot of things.  To me that scripture doesn't explain anything...certainly not a reason.  Unless it's "He's the Son of God!"  Well, of course He is!  So why did He need that particular thing done for Him?  To me it doesn't make sense....if someone can explain the reason, I will be glad to change my attitude....in fact, I am going to post right now....about a few things really bothering me for awhile....J

aw well i'm really sry to hear you struggling alot 'J' but you know, sometimes we think we are ready for an answer but inr eality we have no clue what we are asking for. We just gotta trust God that He knows exactly what He is doing and trust in Him to grant us the answer along with the understanding in due time. I'm sure He will, for you, me, and all of humanity in due time.

Yes but i am with you, though i do remember as 'CIY' said that 'the words i have spokent o you they are SPIRIT and they are life.' I think i am looking at this carnaly, i'm pretty sure lol but right now for some reason it all i see, like a big smoke screen, can't see past it.
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Shmeggly

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2007, 10:59:00 PM »

Yeah....I don't know about that whole

"Please do not misunderstand me.  I am not being heartless toward the poor, but give to the kingdom first and trust God.  If someone has $20 to give, I believe it would be better to send it to Ray Smith that will help spread the true gospel to the world than it would to give to someone so they can eat a big mac and buy some clothes.  Build up the bretheren."  

That is the same reasoning the televangelists use....don't buy food for your family or pay your bills, send the money  to me so that we can save people's souls! (or give them info etc....)  

I think the bible says to give to the poor (ok it does; not I think!)  James 2:16 "If one of you says to him, " 'Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,' " but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?"

I'll be the first to admit it CIY, that I am not doing well spiritually, for a number of reasons.  So I hope I don't come across as offensive.  I don't see the spirituality of it....but....I feel totally burned out right now.  Maybe read my post that I'm going to do right away....James
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Shmeggly

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2007, 11:05:09 PM »

lilitalienboi16: sorry, you posted just while I was sending my last post.  Yes, I just don't see it....the smokescreen is clouding my judgement for sure....but to me it still isn't explained.  So....

I am on some pain meds right now (nothing serious at all) and that isn't helping I know...but besides my own miserable shiite that is happening now, I just heard some horrendous news about a Christian man who we used to be friends with him and his family....and it goes along with what I am going to start a new thread on....

I just ask that people would have some understanding if my posts sound a little off the wall; I am going through hell right now.  J
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carol70

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2007, 11:13:00 PM »

I think we get the whole story in John 12:

Joh 12:1  Then, six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was (who had died, whom He raised from the dead).
Joh 12:2  Then they made a supper there for Him. And Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those reclining with Him.
Joh 12:3  Then Mary took a pound of ointment of pure spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped His feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the odor of the ointment.
Joh 12:4  Then said one of His disciples (Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, who was to betray Him)
Joh 12:5  Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?
Joh 12:6  He said this, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief and held the moneybag and carried the things put in.
Joh 12:7  Then Jesus said, Let her alone. She has kept this for the day of My burial.
Joh 12:8  For you have the poor with you always; but you do not always have Me.

Love and peace,
Carol
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2007, 11:17:11 PM »

I think we get the whole story in John 12:

Joh 12:1  Then, six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was (who had died, whom He raised from the dead).
Joh 12:2  Then they made a supper there for Him. And Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those reclining with Him.
Joh 12:3  Then Mary took a pound of ointment of pure spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped His feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the odor of the ointment.
Joh 12:4  Then said one of His disciples (Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, who was to betray Him)
Joh 12:5  Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?
Joh 12:6  He said this, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief and held the moneybag and carried the things put in.
Joh 12:7  Then Jesus said, Let her alone. She has kept this for the day of My burial.
Joh 12:8  For you have the poor with you always; but you do not always have Me.

Love and peace,
Carol

OMG CAROl< YOU NAILED IT! HAHA THATS IT! Judas didn't care about the money for the poor, HE WANTED THE MONEY HIMSELF and so Jesus responded accordingly with love all the while defending marys act and keeping the money out of judas's hands, haha w00t.

God IS GOOD, yehaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Love you!

Alex
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ciy

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2007, 11:26:35 PM »

Shmeggly,

I, too am in the wilderness, it can wear you down but know in your heart God does have you in the palm of His hand.  Everything that is happeniing to you is tailor made just for you, so walk through that valley of the shadow.  

I am not meaning for you to give your money to Ray Smith if you do not feel like giving.  And this may be against the forum rules I was just using Ray as an example of the chosen or elect.  Give where your heart leads,  The word just leads me to believe that if we are going to give we should give to the elect.  

CIY
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YellowStone

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2007, 12:10:25 AM »

CIY,

I really like your reasoning; however, by what means are you going to use to measure who is or is not going to be a member of the elect.

Remember Christ said, do unto the least and you do unto him.

Mat 25:42  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Mat 25:43  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Mat 25:44  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Mat 25:45  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

Mat 25:46  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Just my thoughts, :)

In Christ with Love,
Darren
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ciy

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2007, 12:38:31 AM »

Hello Darren

I am not saying to not give to others.  We should esteem others above ourselves, but I believe the only way we can do that from the inside out so that is not from our righteousness is to give all we have to Christ first, our carnal goods and our spiritual goods.  Only then will our giving to others be of God and not of our own good works.

I love the poor.  I remember a W C Fields line in movie when he was explaining to his little grand daughter that he was like Robin Hood and that "He took from the rich and gave to the poor."  She said "What poor, Grandpa?" And he said "Us poor."  We are all the poor at some time in our journey.  Maybe for long periods and maybe not.

And I love the scriptures you quoted and I agree it means the poor and others, but I believe the bigger meaning is spiritual.

Mat 25:43  I was a stranger (a believer in false doctrines), and ye took me not in: naked (not covered by the white garments of the spirit), and ye clothed me not: sick(in deep sin which is a deadly disease), and in prison (the bondage of Bablyon), and ye visited me not.

Thanks for pointing this out Darren.
CIY


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Sorin

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2007, 02:04:47 AM »

Some people read that scripture and think: "that money could have been used on the poor". But since when did Jesus need "money" to feed the hungry/poor? Even if she did sell that ointment instead and fed some poor, would there not still be poor people in the world? But how many chances do you get to pour some ointment on the Son Of God before he is to be crucified for your sins?

Just my thoughts,

Sorin
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skydreamers

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2007, 03:30:52 AM »

Hi Everyone,

I hope no one minds if I  give my "womanly" thoughts on this because that is what jumped out at me as I was contemplating this thread.

I find it interesting that it was a woman who recklessly ate of the tree, and it was a woman who against logic recklessly spent all she had to lavish love on the Savior.  It's like coming full circle almost. 

I'm thinking that in this case, Mary represents the Elect...against worldly logic and sensibility she risks everything to follow what is spiritually the only treasure that's important...Jesus:

John 12:3
Mary therefore took a pound of expensive ointment made from pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.


Our treasure is in Jesus...there is nothing that compares to that.  Here's what Jesus had to say about Mary on another occasion, when her own sister complained about her:

Luke 10:38-42
38  Now as they went on their way, Jesus entered a village. And a woman named Martha welcomed him into her house.
39  And she had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to his teaching.
40  But Martha was distracted with much serving. And she went up to him and said, "Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her then to help me."
41  But the Lord answered her, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things,
42  but one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, which will not be taken away from her."

 

Martha reminds me of "the called"...busy and anxious about how to "serve the Lord", while Mary focuses on ONE THING...listening to the teachings of Jesus.  She seems to me to characterize an element of the Elect.  She gives whatever she has for the treasure of Jesus....and serves him in spirit and in truth...washing his feet (with all that she has).

Luke 7:38
38  and standing behind Him at His feet, weeping, she began to wet His feet with her tears, and kept wiping them with the hair of her head, and kissing His feet, and anointing them with the perfume.

Matthew 26:13
13  Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done shall also be spoken of in memory of her.


John 13:5-7
5  Then He (Jesus) poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded.
6  And so He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?"
7  Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you shall understand hereafter."


It's like a balance...like a perfect marraige...needing each other, giving to each other, serving each other, loving each other....washing each other's feet.

The Elect, like Mary, must give up everything that is worldly for the sake of the truth:

Matthew 13:44
44  The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

So the woman...Mary...once an adultress, a "whore"...gives it all....becomes the virgin bride...the Elect....from carnal to spiritual...from evil to good...

For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adulteress will hunt for the precious life.
Proverbs 6:26

How long will you waver, O faithless daughter? For the LORD has created a new thing on the earth: a woman encircles a man.
Jeremiah 31:22

I am not saying that there is anything special about being a woman, only that there is something beautiful God expresses through female tenderness and unrestrained passion.  Come on girls, isn't it a female tendency to be a hopeless romantic, while males are far more reasonable and logical??  Often a woman needs a man in a different way than a man needs a woman.  God needs his Bride, just as the Bride needs her Husband...each is important, together they become ONE.

Genesis 2:23-24
23  Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."
24  Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


Interesting, how Jesus' first earthly miracle was performed at a wedding:

John 2:9-11
9  When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10  And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
11  This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee....


And we find at the end...

John 19:25
25  standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.


3 women...faithfully by Jesus' side, right to His death...(3=completed process, the Bride, the Elect...enduring to the end...faithful unto death)

Matthew 26:12
12  In pouring this ointment on my body, she has done it to prepare me for burial.

What love between a bridegroom and his bride!!


(Okay, yes...I am a hopeless romantic!  ;) :))

Peace,
Diana





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iris

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2007, 04:48:15 AM »

Diana,

That was beautiful!!!
Thank you!


Iris
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sansmile

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2007, 05:11:33 AM »

Hi all,
Good thread....I think what we also need to understand here is the culture at that time. Women then needed a "bottom drawer" for when they get married, a type of dowry. Oils were an expensive commodity and Mary had saved this oil to help her be more "marriagable". The fact she used this on Christ she recognised that ...the things of this earth don't matter..they are temporary!!  She saw... Christ really "saw" Him as the Son Of God and as her saviour.

Hope this helps

God Bless
Sandie
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Walk in the Spirit

mrsnacks

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Re: A question about Jesus in Bethany
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2007, 08:01:38 AM »

One can look at something and have the wrong perspective. The Scriptures say to love God with all thy heart and to not worship any other gods but Him. Sounds selfish to one who doesn't have eyes to see or ears to hear. Why is God a jealous God ? Why does He command worship ? Why does Jesus say "follow Me. " This all can can sound very selfish and egotistical of God to the carnal mind or one lacking understanding. But in reality giving attention and giving what you have to Him is the most important thing you can in serving Jesus. She did the right thing. I mean if you look at it all of us on the forum using computers costing many hundreds and even thousands of dollars. Couldn't that money have been used to feed the poor ? Instead of spending hours online- could we spend the time going out in the streets and giving our time to the needy ? Just some thoughts.
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