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[Sorin]

Not that I am defending it, nor am I gay. But I want to know, why is homosexuality wrong (in your opinion/fact etc...). I mean other then The Bible/God's Word saying it's wrong, and an abomination etc...

What I mean is, can you give me a reason without referring to God, why homosexuality is wrong?
I can think of a few, but I'll let you guys answer first.
This is just an honest question, I'm not trying to either defend, nor hate homosexuals.

Any post is welcomed.

-Sorin

[Jackie Lee]

It is not normal in my opinion, since I am just offering an opinion.
In my heart it is written that God does not approve.
I have a gay sister and also a gay brother in law.
I tell you gays are coming out of the closet from every direction.
It gives me the heebie jeebies it is just one of those sinful acts that bother me most.
 I will let God be the judge though.
The scripture speak how it is an abomination.

[musicman]

It's not as bad as murder, rape, or just about any kind of evil deed done against another.  It's probably no more evil than adultry.  This is only when it's between consenting adults.  However, the gay culture annoys me.  The gay men act and talk feminine.  They have become more and more powerful, even going as far as insisting that public schools educate children about their lifestyles.  I personally believe that they should stay quiet if in the millitary, for the sake of moral.  The question isn't whether it is a sin but why they were caused to be this way.  Nobody in their right mind would choose any of the known perverted sexual orientations.  They cannot realistically be expected to control their desires.  I know for a fact that many of the most artistic humans ever to live were gay men.  Why, I don't know.  But the fact is, is their lifestyle doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as someone who lies for personal gain or is out to dishonestly better themself at the expense of countless honest workers.  Basically, I don't have a problem with what they do, as long as they commit their sins privately.           

[fe32k]

Sorin you're crazy... lol. This can get ugly. Maybe not. Homosexuality is just like all other sexual immoralities, they just can not help it. What they lust after is not natural though. God said multiply and replenish. Homosexuality is a direct violation to this command. Homosexuality is not only wrong because it is a sin, it is also wrong because it does not promote survival of our species. If everyone were gay then we'd be an endangered species. I hope this makes sense.

God be with you,
Roy

[Jackie Lee]

Murder and rape is far worse, Homosexuals at least are agreeable to the act.
I am a little homophobic though I have to admit.
I agree why in the world would anyone choose such a life, but could they choose different?

[GODSown1]

Hey hi all,
            yea i jus hav an Opinion, Yes! can dey choose differntly?? um! & 2 b very honest i no many gay pple/ relations etc.. whom r very kind hearted pple compared 2 wot cumz out of Churchez n e wayz, & most of dem Praise GOD jus az much az uS if not even more!, As U say Jacqui-lee, GOD is the Judge not uS! & isnt GOD in Control!?? . We hav a church in New Zealand called Destiny man if n e church gets me goin its dem, Dey Preach GODS name bla bla bla, but! den dey r in 1 big congregation in da streets all in black T shirts Holding banners wit stupid fingZ like "Down with GayZ" even az bad as "Kill the GAYz" I was jus Shocked & I was finkn & dis is a church of GOD, Woteva!!!, dey were yelln out Heaps of stuff az if bein Gay was da Only! sin in dis World & 1 mus remember all sins r sins no matter hw big or small dey may seem, dey r All still sins, Well dis is my Opinion in which cums 2 mind, But! I mus remember GOD is in Control, Peace 2 U All, GODS BlessnZ! 2 each & every1 of uZ! in JESUS Mighty!, Amazing name Amen!!!.
              muchLOVE!! Pera

[steve]

  Okay, I guess I'm going to step in it now. This is the sin I have battled all of my life. I don't understand why it's a sin. My mind says " I would rather see two people love each other than hate each other". My heart says I should obey my God. I have been celebate for more than five years. If I told you I didn't sin in my heart every day I would be sinning again. The best response on homosexuality I have heard is from Ray. We are born that way.That doesn't excuse us. Just as some people are born to be robbers or murderers. I try to look at my sin as no different from other forms of fornication. We are all born into sin, but that isn't what God has asked of us.

I am going to offer a differing opinion about whether it is natural. It is normal. Pick up a magazine and read about the penguins and dolphins and bonobos. It is the nature of the beast.

I don't think there is much of a distinction between categories of sin. If we are fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals, or if we are murderers or false witnessses. Sin is the act of coming short of the glory of God.
Some people in their lifetimes identify the way they haven't glorified God by not having been faithful to their spouse, and some by trying to choose a partner of the same sex.

When I read the story of Gods creation he made a woman to be a companion to a man. Maybe the reason homosex is a sin is because it is rejecting his choice for us, just like sleeping with women that you aren't married to is rejecting his plan too.

For what it's worth I wish I had an asbestos hat and coat now.

[chuckt]

hi steve, my heart goes out to you!!

the more we find our identity in Christ rather than our sexuality we become overcomers for HE overcame.

same with recovering alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts ETC, our identity MUST be IN CHRIST.

not in self or our "sins" i know this 100% ......

God bless you
ChuckT

[gmik]

Rodger, I like your take on it.  I've thought the same way.

Physically, there is a lot of harm done.  Bizarre things, pseudo-masochistic things, animals, etc.  Just seems to be out of the norm.

God usually didn't say NO to things w/o a good reason.  Usually it was for protection.  Such as not eating pork and that sort of thing. Not cuz God was picky but back then it could harm you if not cooked all the way.

Anyway, all thru history, even tho it was always around, it was never looked upon as "normal", even by decadent Rome, which didn't acknowledge God/Bible. Weve all seen documents on tV where tribes w/ no touch from the outside world did not accept homosexuality.

MOST animals do NOT practice homosexuality.

Paul said it is better to marry than to burn.  So serving God single is good.  But marriage-one man and one woman- children seems to be the accepted way all thru history.

[YellowStone]

Hi Gena,

I am going to offer a different perspective that perhaps you have not considered.

You wrote: "God usually didn't say NO to things w/o a good reason.  Usually it was for protection.  Such as not eating pork and that sort of thing. Not cuz God was picky but back then it could harm you if not cooked all the way."

While I agree with what you say, it does not and cannot mean that God did not WANT such things as homosexuality to happen. We know well now that man is not free to even direct his steps, so is one suddenly free to select their sexual preference. I would say no!

So why then would God instruct to guard against such deplorable practices while on the other hand is the one causing such actions? Is there a contradiction here? Or is there perhaps a greater meaning.

Well, I certainly think there is. Let me first state that you, me or anyone else here in this forum is not any better than the lowest of the low; it is that we have one thing that they do not (yet) and that is ears to hear and eyes to see.

So what should we see when we experience such in your face homosexuality innuendo that is so prevalent these days? Are we to condemn them for breaking God's law. Remember, how Christ told us (I think it was Christ) that to those of which much is given, much is expected in return. If we therefore recognize ourselves as the work of God's hands, then are "they" not also? Far be it from me to condemn them, for would I not also be condemning the Potter? Of course I would. 

Everything in this life, from object to opportunity is given as a lesson in humility for us. If we can do nothing more than recognize that God will one day set them straight, while showing to the best of our ability unconditional love and all the other fruits of the Spirit, then I think that is a good start. Please don't ask me where to go from there, for I accept them and I personally know more than a few. Christ died for homosexuals too and I am thinking that when he spoke to the multitudes and said the: "least of these will come first......." probably included some homosexuals too.

Oh you are really going to think I am picking on you now 

You wrote: "But marriage-one man and one woman- children seems to be the accepted way all thru history."

Yep, and I think there is a very good reason for it......

Gen 2:18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

God does everything for a reason, and perhaps the most profound realization is that there is something to learn from all of it. Good or bad.

Thanks Gena, I hope you take this in the spirit of love in which it was written.

Love in Christ,
Darren

[GODSown1]

Darren,
         Amen 2 d@ Well sed, once again sum1 haz put it how I was tryn 2 lol! BlessnZ! brother.
         muchLOVE!! Pera

[skydreamers]

Well....I have this feeling that one day, when God is all and all...all this gender stuff is not going to matter anymore.  For now, the biggest question is what is God teaching us by these so called "anomalies" in God's design? 

The physical comes first, then the spiritual.  Are we to behave like we have not committed spiritual homosexuality against our Lord and Savior?? 

I'm of the mindset that we ALL have at one time or another, and that my friends is far more important to realize and repent of. 

This may be offensive to some, but we have all been spiritual homosexuals.  God recently opened my mind to this and I was humbled. 

I have never had a problem with gay people, had many in my life that were dear friends.  I would never judge them.  But I did think, deep inside, that there was something "wrong" with them, and almost felt sorry for them.  (God forgive me).  Like I was somehow more normal....NOT!

We must never forget that we are to live by EVERY word out of the mouth of God.  And ALL these things (in the bible) have happened for OUR instruction upon whom the ends of the ages have come.  Do you think that excludes you??

Please, let's not focus on these outer physical things and get distracted from what's going on inside each of us....apply it to yourselves people... and see what God shows you.  It's not going to be pretty, but it's the only way to deal with the beast and have Jesus knock him down a few more notches.

Love to all of you!

Peace,
Diana

[Sorin]

Thank you all for replying. I do not view homosexuality as "normal". Just because some [not all] are born that way, that dosen't make it "normal". Some people are born blind, deaf, retarded, and even conjoined to their twin (siamese); that doesn't mean it's "normal". Homosexuality is a defect, there is something wrong in one's mind when he is attracted to the same sex as opposed to the opposite sex; which is the natural order of things. I mean what is sex really, other than the fact that it feels great, it is a means of procreation.
Even the theory of evolution, survival of the fittest, and science will attest that hetereosex is vital to the survival of a species.
And what about all the many, many diseases that are due to homosexual activity?

You probably already know the homosexual community has been decimated by AIDS. But you may not know that, as another study has found: 1) 80% of syphilitic patients are homosexual; 2) about 33% of homosexuals are infected with active anorectal herpes simplex viruses; 3) chlamydia infects 15% of homosexuals; and 4) "a host of parasites, bacterial, viral, and protozoan are all rampant in the homosexual population."

Another study found that: 1) amoebiasis, a parasitic disease, afflicts around 32% of homosexuals; 2) giardiasis, also a parasitic disease, afflicts 14% of homosexuals (NO heterosexuals in the study were found to have either amoebiasis or giardiasis); 3) gonorrhea afflicts 14% of homosexuals; and 4) 11% of homosexuals had anal warts.

According to another study, anorectal sepsis, a potentially toxic bacterial infection, is four times more common in homosexual than heterosexual men. And another study found that the "prevalence of EBV type 2 among homosexual men was significantly higher than it was among heterosexual men (39% vs. 6%)."6 (EBV type 2 is the Epstein-Barr type 2 virus, which virus causes infectious mononucleosis and is associated with two types of cancer: Burkitt's lymphoma and nasopharyngeal carcinoma.)

And other studies have found abnormally high rates of hepatitis B infection, prostate cancer, colitis, enteritis, proctitis, and proctocolitis in homosexual men.

And Steve, I feel for you... I really do.

-Sorin

P.S. Rodger, great post! I agree!

[Sorin]

Hmmm... the thread has strayed from the original question. But I did say "any post is welcomed" therefore I can't really complain. :p

[skydreamers]

Hi Sorin,

Sorry, I should have read your question more carefully.  I do see what you are saying.  Unfortunately none of the things you listed would likely be a deterrent for anyone to stop what they are doing, any more than the probability of lung cancer stops a smoker from reaching for a cigarette.  Here in Canada, they put hideous pictures of what smoking can do to your health right on the front of the packet...my husband smokes so I see these disgusting pictures all the time, and I'm horrified that it's not enough to make him want to stop.  He loves our family and is a responsible husband and father, but the smoking.....he just can't seem to stop and he's tried several times. 

It's bizarre that we all know we are marching towards death, yet some of us insist on running there!  There's not much in this world that we do towards our bodies or the planet that is really "normal" anymore.  We are accelerating our demise in one way or another.

But yes, I agree with you that homosexuality is not "normal" in terms of the natural design of our bodies and what they are meant to do.  And there isn't a gay person I have known in my experience that didn't ultimately admit to me that they were sad inside for being so "different"....

Peace to you,
Diana

[Shmeggly]

I used to look at things differently; it's amazing what being humbled can do for you!

I know homosexuality used to be focused on in our church....along with more "obvious" sins.  Which now bothers me.  The "church" in general really lasers in on it, along with abortion. (How about gossip, slander, hatred etc) 

 What would Jesus Do?  (I'm sorry but I hate that "buzzword" saying....)  but it applies here. 

He didn't rail against people's sin, or hold rallies, or say we should assasinate the head of the Roman Gov't!!!  He loved people, healed them, fed them, and they KNEW He cared....He came to SAVE us...

Anyway....sin is sin is sin....and yes, sexual sins are mentioned as different, but that has to do with the effect on us.  God is not more "horrified" by it....

What I'm trying to say, is, whether you struggle with adultery, homosexuality, over eating (gluttony) , or anything you feel in bondage to and can't seem to stop, I FEEL for you!!!  I know what it's like....

Steve, take off your asbestos hat and coat, and receive a brotherly hug from Shmeggly!  I may not agree with everything you said, (just because I can't think too clearly to debate/read-T3's again for pain!) but you are loved. 

On our own we can't do anything....God is the one who does it for us.  I TRIED for years to quit one thing or the other, and you know, it never worked.  God did not deliver me miraculously like so many peole you hear about, nor did I seem to have the power to overcome.  But I believe in His time He changes people....I prayed for YEARS to change, to be different....well let me tell you, I am changing, and I am different, but it is through an incredibly PAINFUL trial that this has come about....so....

The only thing is, there is consequence for sin, and sometimes it doesn't seem like it, but it does find you.  What I'm trying to say, is that I do agree with alot of what you said, but don't quit praying for God to change your life.  And that you are in the same boat as all of us!  No better, no worse....just loved, accepted, and important in God's eyes....and He wants what's best for you, just like I do....

Take care, and be at peace....James

[Sorin]

Hi Diana,

Firstly, there's no need to apologize. I did indeed say "any post is welcomed" and I meant it. I was simply stating a fact by saying that the thread has strayed. But it doesn't matter, at least we're all discussing.

About the smoking thing, I'm in the same boat as your husband. I've tried to quit many times, and I just can't do it. Kind of like a homosexual who tries to be attracted to females, and he just can't do it. Yes, I believe there are some that are born that way, but not all.
Homosexuality has become acceptable now, trendy even, and the media doesn't portray it as anything but "good" without any of the negative things that I had previously posted.

Take care,

Sorin

[musicman]

Regardless of whether every homosexual is born that way or not, I can guarantee that no one chooses this perversion.  I applaud Steve for staying celibate for five years.  While this doesn't cancel out the sin of lust, it is a clear sign that God is working with him.  I've known homosexuals who attend church and state that it's OK if you're in love with your partner.  Ummmm, no, not really.  But regardless, there are much worse ways to sin.  Steve, you're not a necrophiliac, a pedophile, (what are those people who like the animals?  You know, the bestiality people) or any number of philos that are more condemnable than being homosexual.  Just leave it in God's hands and try to live according to the spirit.  I'm sure Christ cured some homosexuals during his ministry.

[carol70]

I guess one of the problems that people have with homosexuality is the way society has become so accepting of it.  But it's no different from any other sin, right?  At least that's what I get from Romans 1:

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19  because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
Rom 1:21  because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23  and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24  Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:
Rom 1:25  for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27  and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.
Rom 1:28  And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
Rom 1:29  being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30  backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31  without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32  who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

If you look at the long list of sins above, homosexuality is no worse than being disobedient to your parents.

Being born blind may not be normal, but blind people are not persecuted the way homosexuals are.  And no, being blind isn't a sin.  But murderers aren't persecuted the way homosexuals are either.  In fact, many people feel justified in murdering homosexuals for THEIR perversion!  Now explain that to me, how a murderer's perversion is more accepting than a homosexual's?

Just some thoughts that came to me.

[jER]

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope..."
...So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but what is unseen.

In His Love,

-jER