> General Discussions
I have a question for you all
Sorin:
Ward, so basically what you're saying is, if you take God out of the equation, homosexuality is not wrong at all. So then, how do you convince an atheist that homosexuality is wrong? You can't, if God saying it's wrong is the only reason you have. Same with adultery, after all, it's just two "consenting adults" (which are the two words the pro-homosexual crowd uses the most).
Also, have you not read what I posted about the many diseases that are due to homosexual activity? You can not tell me from those studies that homosexual activity is safe.
Ward:
Sorin:
I'll do my best to respond...
--- Quote from: Sorin on July 15, 2007, 05:42:14 PM ---
Ward, so basically what you're saying is, if you take God out of the equation, homosexuality is not wrong at all.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry if that's what it sounded like. What I meant was that it was only because God has shown me that it is wrong that I knew it was wrong. Without God's reason, I have no reason. Maybe I would've had a reason that I thought was my own, but the first I can remember ever hearing about homosexuality was what I read in the scriptures. I'm sure I had to get a dictionary out to find out what the word even meant.
--- Quote ---So then, how do you convince an atheist that homosexuality is wrong? You can't, if God saying it's wrong is the only reason you have. Same with adultery, after all, it's just two "consenting adults" (which are the two words the pro-homosexual crowd uses the most).
--- End quote ---
You are absolutely right on this... I don't. I can't. I can't do anything. Only God can. They will accept and believe only when God shows/teaches/drags them to it. i.e. Without God doing that to me, I would be right at home with the atheist you mentioned. Probably the Gay folks, too.
I have tried to speak to Gay people I know about this subject. I expected an angry response. Didn't get it though. But I didn't just talk about homosexual sin. I talked about sexual sin, too. That made a big difference. The people that I have spoken to noticed the hypocrisy they hear regarding the two. I ended up talking to them about the freewill, too. I've been very surprised at their responses. A few have really *seemed* to get it. Maybe, I'm fooling myself on that.
--- Quote ---Also, have you not read what I posted about the many diseases that are due to homosexual activity? You can not tell me from those studies that homosexual activity is safe.
--- End quote ---
I would say that it is not the fact that the activities are between people of the same sex that causes these deceases in the homosexual community. Its caused by their having multiple short-term partners. I believe that many homosexuals have had many short-term relationships because that's all they believed they could have. They couldn't have a relationship that is public and long-term, because they risked problems in public. Things may be a little different now... But many of them risk their lives every day dealing with the public. (I can relate a little bit. Now I had many girlfriends in high school, but I was hit on by many gay men and accused of being gay by some of the straights. I was afraid and confused. Why do these gay men pick me? And what makes some straight guys think I might be gay even when they know about my girlfriends. And we've all heard what can happen to guys they think are gay when they are caught alone...)
Consider two men or two women... If they come together and they treat their relationship the way that heterosexual couples *should*. Meaning that they are only with each other, how does the parasitic disease get into the picture? Somebody's got to bring it into the relationship. As for the actual gay sexual activities causing problems... (Well... I decided not to leave this part of my message in. I don't want to offend any users by speaking about those types of activities. Not sure about the ages of the users here either...)
--- Quote ---About the whole, being like the angels thing, which do not marry, therefore they don't.... that's the scripture that bothers me the most.
Because it doesn't make the next life appealing, in fact it makes it sound pretty awful. If I may be blunt.
--- End quote ---
Blunt. Shmunt... That one doesn't bother me in the least. I have felt the exact same way... How about this? When I read about the walls made of gems or gem-like material and the gates being made of pearl. I thought... Man... Talk about gawdy. How can we live in that? Yuck!
You know Sorin... We both think that it will be awful. What does that say about us? Is sex that important to us?
Maybe I should stick to talking about myself... I have thought the samething as I said... That concerned me. Its obviously one of my many problems. (What's funny is that since my divorce 16 years ago, I've only been intimate with somebody once and it was adultery. So... Let's see... I'm Celibate and I'm concerned about there being no sex after this earthly age. Nutty, but it used to be true.)
Well... That's my response so far... Does any of it make any sense? I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I just thought about your original question for a few days and decided I would try to answer. Just in case... I'm more than happy to talk about this in depth. God uses you all to teach me so much. I'm sure he'll use you to teach me even more.
\/\/ard
Please accept my apologies if I have spoken about this subject in a way that offends anybody. Details, I mean... I decided a while back, that at Bible-Truths, I'd try my best to be open and honest.
mrsnacks:
Are homosexual acts a greater sin than heterosexual sins ?
Well homosexual acts don't lead to abortion a greater sin. The killing of the unborn. How many abortions are caused by heterosexual acts outside marriage.At least in the homosexual act - murder isn't a by product. I think heterosexual sins can be more deadly.
Many teenage and girls in their twenties end up getting abortions from engaging in intercourse outside of marriage. How many innocent lives are taken from homosexual acts? I have known women who have had multiple abortions from one night stands. Not that they really wanted to have the abortions but faced with the truth that the guy they thought cared for them just wanted their body but not the baby. Love had nothing to do with it. Marriage is a great creation from God.
While I believe that homosexual acts are an abomination to God using His Word for the standard of what is right and wrong. As Protagoras has said if God doesn't exist , than man is the standard or measure of what is right and wrong. Another philosopher stated that if God doesn't exist than all things are permissable.
So to the atheist has his/her standards of right and wrong as well. So God is removed from the equation . Okay I will go on their ground then. Take their stereo and they will tell you it is wrong to steal. Then I would respond why is it wrong ? Why can't I take from you what I want ? It is not yours they will say. So what - why does it have to be mine ? Why can't I take what is not mine ? MY point here is that without God - you can't make sense out of anything.It is like Christendom- internal contradictions. If they appeal to the laws of men as a standard of right and wrong then they sink. Their feet firmly planted in mid air. Example : the laws at one time stated that blacks were not equal with whites
( Dred Scott decision ) . Or even laws stated women were not entitled to equal rights. Were those laws right ? If tomorrow they passed a law stating that rape was okay - would that make rape right ? Of course not. The German holocaust was wrong and evil based on God's law of thou shalt not murder. That is the justification in the International court in putting away the Nazi war criminals. The criminals were saying the U.S. hd no right in sentencing them. Germany was their country and they abided by their laws. The chief justice condemned them on the basis of God's law which He stated were above men's laws. You see in an atheist universe there is no right or wrong. All we are are molecules in motion. An accident. No purpose , no meaning. The same process ( the big bang ) that spit at cockroaches and dirt spit out human beings. So who is to say what is right or wrong in an atheistic universe.
I recall taking my young daughter at the time out and witnessing a Gay parade. We lived in L.A. at the time. We happened to be out and she saw men kissing each other. She was I would say about 5 or 6 years of age. She said "yuck " when seeing immoral acts and hid her eyes. She knew that what was going on wasn't right.
I worked with and knew quite a few homosexuals. All who are dead now because of aids. The pro homosexual crowd would say that if there are two consenting adults and if they are happy what business is it of mine to say it is wrong. I then responded by asking them why does it have to be two consenting adults. Why can't it be 3 or 4. Or why can't one person alone decide what is right or wrong.
Why does he/she have to consent with someone else. I mean if two decide to commit suicide does that make it right ?
I also did some work with "Exodus" a Christian organization helping homosexuals deal with the many emotional problems of guilt and etc. Yes deseases are rampant among the homosexual crowd but so with the heterosexual crowd. But most practicing homosexuals do want to come out of their sin. They face a lot of emotional problems. They want to be free from their sin. The pro homosexual crowd won't make that public though. So much for truth.
I know I am just ranting here but sin is sin. It is wrong for one to lie with someone of the same sex. But it also wrong for two unmarried heterosexuals to to have sex just the same. And like the minister Haggard who used to rant and rave against the sins of homosexuality was performing the same acts , we must not be hypocrites. Pointing at others and their sins while we are sinning ourselves.
The one thing is that one must be born from above to enter into the kingdom of God. Once one has the Spirit of God dwelling in them , God will do His work in them to transform them into Christlikeness. He is the Hope for all. He is the Savior of all men. Only in Christ will one become a new creation. Only in Christ will one come out of blindness and see the light. Our focus should be to bring the world the Good News of the Kingdom.
seminole:
I know a couple of guys, well they used to be guys at one time. One is still male but the other has had the surgeries, hormones, etc. so that she is now a female. They are great people and would do anything for anybody. They are also very talented artists. They have had a committment ceremony and have remained monogamous. I don't think that sex outside of marriage is the way God wants it to be but I don't see any greater sin in their lifestyle than I do in heterosexuals sleeping around with everybody.
musicman:
Mr. Snacks:
The reason stealing from someone is against against secular law is that the theif is making a victim (non consenting) of the one stolen from. Homo sexual activities concern nobody except the homo sexuals. So regardless of what is a sin against God, only one of these crimes would concern an outsider.
Ward:
The female vagina has natural antegins which take care of harmful affects of semen. It is also naturally lubricated to lower chances of abrasions. Homo sexuals do not natural benefit from lubrication. This is why homo sexual activities are dangerous. I realize that sometimes men and woman have sex as two men do, but not exclusively.
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