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I have a question for you all
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: Sorin on July 26, 2007, 09:41:00 PM ---Harryfeat, What's wrong with oral? ???
I thought the marriage bed is "undefiled"?
God only said: " Thou shall not lay with mankind as with woman kind"
He said nothing about "oral". ;)
As for anal, not really my cup of tea.
-Sorin
--- End quote ---
Hey Sorin,
That is exactly my point. If I understand your posts correctly, you seem to think that homosexual sex acts are the gravest of all sex sins between consenting adults. However, there are many who believe oral and anal sex are sins and that the sex organs are to be used for procreation only. Where do their beliefs come from? Where did your take on same sex being worse than adultery come from? Can we say that either is scriptural?
Is eating pork a sin? It seems to be against the law according to Lev. What about lobster? It is also an abomination. What do we take from the OT laws to bring forward today. As far as I know, the ten commandments mention adultery and murder and false witness but is silent to same sex. If same sex is so much worse why doesn't Christ mention it, or the ten commandments mention it.
I was taught that almost all sex acts save certain marital ones are a sin. Scripture, in particular the OT might bear most of that out, I don't know for sure. Christ's message from the new testament rings very strongly with me. His two commandments summarize the ten commandments into two categories. Loving God with your whole heart is the first category and the second deals with how you treat everyone else. This gist of it all is that whatever you do to your neighbor that is harmful is against the ten commandments. It includes lying cheating stealing adultery murder coveting goods and wives.
The distinctive difference between fornication and adultery is that adultery hurts the third innocent part and breaks a vow to be faithful. Fornication is usually between consenting folks so there is no third party hurt by the situation. I view same sex acts as a type of fornication. It really doesn't matter what I think though, I am just trying to give you a different perspective
What challenges me in my search is whether non adulterous sex acts that are between consenting adults are truly sinful. Yes I know what the OT "Jewish bible" translations say for the most part. What part of Leviticus and the other OT books of laws do we bring forward? How much of it is valid for today's world? These are questions I am dealing with personally and do not advocate any denial of belief for anyone else.
Please don't get me wrong. These are questions that come to me when people say "how do you justify"
I hope that my questions and search for truth perspectives aren't clouding the issues for anyone else. I am just trying to explain it to you. Make no mistake. Please don't jump to conclusions like others have already done. My basic philosophy is still-----when in doubt, it is probably a sin.
Clear as mud huh ::)
I hope this helps explain but I know my muddled mind and strange way of conveying ideas tends to confuse.
feat
carol70:
Oh Rodger, now don't hold back - tell us how you REALLY feel! :)
I did want to bring up one thing you said. I'm assuming you didn't really mean to put this in there:
--- Quote ---Those persons can love, support, forgive and mercify, those corrupted preists all they want.
But NOT I !!, I will pray for God's GRACE upon those priests and COMFORT for thier VICTIMS.
--- End quote ---
We are instructed by God to forgive as he forgives us. And surely you haven't forgotten that it is only God's grace that keeps you from sins of homosexuality and other sexual abominations. As Ray has taught us, had you lived under the exact same conditions as the people who commit these abominations, well, you would be committing the exact same sins. Forget the equality or inequality of sins. It's God's grace that determines the sins we commit in this world - nothing more. Given that humbling, spiritual truth, how can we be so unforgiving of certain sins? I am not in any way trying to justify or suggest we need to accept them. But I AM saying we must forgive those who commit them, for God commands us to.
Mat 6:14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you;
Mat 6:15 but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
I think that's what troubles me the most about this thread - what I perceive to be a general lack of forgiveness and charity for those who struggle with this particular sin. I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I get.
Love and peace,
Carol
hillsbororiver:
It is apparent we have exhausted this topic and it is time to move on, let me leave you with this verse from James....
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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