> General Discussions
I'm at a loss.
SixFour:
Bambam,
First let me say: "Be Encouraged!" And that I know too, where you are coming from. I came to the same conclusion of Pax's words:
"I have said it before and shall say it one more time -- whether we enjoy free will or not, we must live as if we do!"
The whole "free will" thing can be confusing at times, but remember we are admonished through out the Gospels to "act!" 'Never to sit still. We must allow God to RENEW our minds so that we may be more like His Son. Even in the dark and confusing times, we must ACT, and that is, leaning and looking to Him. The Bible is full of "verbs!" ;) Words of 'ACTION!'
God does change us after the working of His good will, but there is 'ACTION' involved as He does it.
Just my two cents...
But again, "Be Encouraged!"
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Pax Vobiscum on July 16, 2007, 04:18:58 PM ---The tone of your post is disheartening to say the least. Anyone who has not at some time felt as you do now is likely living in a parallel universe.
Much of your post, however, seems to be in the whirl of the old "Free Will" argument -- WHICH WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER BE RESOLVED DURING OUR LIFETIMES (with apologies to Ray) -- which crops up from time-to-time. You can see how quickly one's head can get into a neverending circular argument and all one ends up with is a headache (Those who lean toward free moral agency can be enlightened, chosen, and elect, btw!).
I have said it before and shall say it one more time -- whether we enjoy free will or not, we must live as if we do!
Pray for guidance, act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God and you will find peace. Keep it simple. Stick with the birds of the air and the lilies of the field. Don't let others' expectations blur your vision. Forget Free Will and work toward Iron Will.
Peace
--- End quote ---
Hi Pax,
Once we throw out the divine wisdom of the scriptures we are left with man made suppositions such as what you present above. It seems to be quite pointless to ask you for chapter and verse for your following statement.
But remember this;
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
You state;
"I have said it before and shall say it one more time -- whether we enjoy free will or not, we must live as if we do!"
It doesn't appear we have much say in regard to the bondage of our particular vanities,
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject5293 to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
G5293
ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: - be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Luk 12:26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
While it is true we can willfully sin we are not in control of what our tendencies (toward a particular sin) are or are we capable of freely, by force of will able to change anything about ourselves, this only comes about through chastisement.
The whole purpose of this life in a nutshell is we are here to have our corruptable (yet unfree) will alligned with the will of our Father, like Christ and through Christ's Spirit, not some "iron willed" super man of steel resolve and action.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
His Peace to you,
Joe
YellowStone:
Joe, my dear brother and friend, you wrote the following :)
--- Quote ---Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Luk 12:26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
While it is true we can willfully sin we are not in control of what our tendencies (toward a particular sin) are or are we capable of freely, by force of will able to change anything about ourselves, this only comes about through chastisement.
The whole purpose of this life in a nutshell is we are here to have our corruptable (yet unfree) will alligned with the will of our Father, like Christ and through Christ's Spirit, not some "iron willed" super man of steel resolve and action.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
--- End quote ---
These words of yours speak to me so loud and so clear. It is not how hard we can fight to walk straight, but rather to what extent that we can let go and trust him completely to lead us us where we need to go. It is Satan that want's one to doubt God's ability, and just like he told Adam, he constantly goads us with "Don't trust God, you don't need him, do it this way!" Yeah right, why does God instruct us to trust Him? Yet this is something that we cannot achieve on our own. God loves us unconditionally, should not trust Him the same.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Thanks Joe,
With Love in Christ,
Darren
bambam:
Dear Joe,
I guess your comments bring me back to where I was. I can do nothing on my own. I cannot change my flaws in and of myself, but how, then, do I (or anyone else for that matter) live my life? Do I just sit around and wait for God to chastise me, or is the trying to change and failing, and then feeling miserable about it-is that part of the chastisement? Maybe there is no straightforward easy answer for this, however, I do find myself in a bit of a confusing state. I feel so guilty about my character flaws, but at the same time, feel helpless to change them. I also feel bad about thinking, well this is how I am and I just have to accept that, because the guilt increases.
Sitting here now, I realize that even though I am not in control, there are things in the Bible that I can try to strive to be and do. I guess if I fail, it wasn't time for me to be perfected in that area yet. Maybe then if I am just trying to do the best I can do, and not being so hard on myself when I mess up, things would get better.
I feel like what Pax was saying was-don't dwell on the whole free-will issue. I do want to understand it, but it is difficult to grasp. I felt like he was saying that I should still try to live and be and do the right things, even if I do fail.
I know that I do not have control. I know that God is in control, and that is a very comforting thought. I suppose what is hard to swallow, and what makes me uneasy is the fact that God wants me to keep failing right now-that He wants me to be lazy, and not the best of moms, and a bad homekeeper. The bad things-and the evil things-are what make God being the author of it all so hard to see. Maybe it's not as hard to understand as it is to believe.
Part of my question was, do I just stop trying at this point? Give up, stop fighting what I cannot change right now, and live a bit freer, breathe a little easier, be happier? Or would I even be happier? The ironic thing is, I don't think I would be.
Still at a loss. :-\
Beth
Firefly:
Hi Beth...
I have to tell you that as I started reading your post I honestly did a double take because I thought I wrote it! I so identify with all that you are saying...the overall confusion of whether you should try to change or not, the guilt, the laziness, the failing as a wife and mother.
I am still struggling so I don't really have any words of wisdom, except that I have good days and bad days...sometimes within the same day! I just wanted you to know that you are not alone and I so empathize with you. Thank you for opening up, for in your honesty you helped me by giving me some peace as I know that I am not alone either. Sometimes things seem so dark I forget I am not the only one who struggles.
Lori :)
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