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A question derived from one of ray's papers.
carol70:
--- Quote from: Kat on July 21, 2007, 12:03:03 AM ---Well I do believe there is something to it, I don't really understand it though. I've never been interested in any of it, not even magic shows.
We can see it mentioned in the scripture to much, to think there is nothing to it. I'm not talking about ghosts, but the power through the use of witchcraft and sorcery/magic and it's evil.
Exo 7:11 Then Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers; and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same by their secret arts.
2Ch 33:6 Also he caused his sons to pass through the fire in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom; he practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft and sorcery, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger.
And we have the story of Simon the sorcerer. All the people seemed to think he had great power, but the truth of him was revealed when he tried to buy the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great,
v. 10 to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the great power of God."
v. 11 And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time.
v. 18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
v. 19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
v. 20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
v. 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
v. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
v. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
Act 19:18 Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices.
v. 19 And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
v. 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
v. 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
While there were many that practiced sorcery, is there any thing in Scripture that leads us to believe it was real? It seems to me that they were nothing more than the David Copperfields and David Blaines of the day, trying to deceive the masses with tricks and lies. That's what makes it evil, don't you think?
Deborah-Leigh:
I know Kat will want to respond to your question but here are my thoughts to add.
Ex 4:1 And Moses answered, But behold, they will not believe me or listen to and obey my voice; for they will say, The Lord has not appeared to you. 2. And the Lord said to him, What is that in your hand? and he said, A rod.3. and He said, Cast it on the ground.And he did so and it became a serpent, the symbol of royal and divine power worn on the crown of the Pharaohs; and Moses fled from before it.
Is 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do ALL these things.
For me that makes it real.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
carol70:
We are in agreement that God creates all things, including evil :)
However, my question is more along the lines of, did God create witchcraft and sorcery, as in, is it real? Does it really exist or is it all fake? I guess I have the same question as Sorin.
--- Quote from: Sorin on July 20, 2007, 09:28:42 PM ---So let me get this straight. You guys do believe in Sorcery, and Witchery, it's just that it is obviously forbidden in the Scripture. But you don't deny it. Am I correct in that assumption?
--- End quote ---
???
Deborah-Leigh:
I guess your answer lies in whether you believe that the rod Moses threw down and turned into a serpent was real or not. Did the Scripture lie and say the rod was a figment of Moses imagination or did it turn into a REAL SNAKE.
For me it turned into a real snake not a fake one...snakes bite and they kill for real. The wages of sin is death and that too is for real.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
carol70:
Ah. I don't consider that to be witchcraft or sorcery, since it was done by the Lord, not by a witch or sorcerer.
Exo 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me nor listen to my voice. For they will say, Jehovah has not appeared to you.
Exo 4:2 And Jehovah said to him, What is this in your hand? And he said, A staff.
Exo 4:3 And He said, Throw it on the ground. And he threw it on the ground. And it became a serpent. And Moses ran from it.
Exo 4:4 And Jehovah said to Moses, Put forth your hand and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand and caught it, and it became a staff in his hand, --
Exo 4:5 so that they may believe that Jehovah, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.
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