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How'd THEY do it??
sasscell:
Hi Dean. Question for you. You mentioned friends of yours turning away after hearing that the scriptures were corrupted. Do you think that there was something in them that wanted a reason not to believe? We have ALL heard somewhere along the line that the bible is a myth, corrupted by men, etc. We never bought any of that, but some obviously do. I'm not sure if I believe that an HONEST Christian could be swayed so easily, but you know some personally, what do you think?
Kat:
Hi Joe,
Thanks for that little nudge. That just made me see that in a whole new way :) It's funny how those truths are just sitting there waiting for God to show them to us.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Pax Vobiscum:
--- Quote from: sasscell on July 18, 2007, 08:01:02 PM ---Anyway, the question that keeps comming up, and HAS for years for me, is WHAT DID PEOPLE DO BEFORE THE SCRIPTURES BECAME COMMONLY AVAILABLE?
--- End quote ---
Just when I was ready to lay low again for a while, a question comes up that deals with a particular focus of my own journey.
There is plenty of material out there about the early believers in the "Christian" movement (they weren't called "Christians" until way after the Ascension, btw) and what they believed, used as Scripture, etc... Much of it is no longer accepted by the "modern" community.
Think of how diverse the world of orthodox Christianity is today. We have New England Congrgationalist, "Snake-handling" Pentacostals from the southern Appalachians, Wide-eyed healers in independent churches, Pious Greek Orthodox monks, and so forth. Each calls upon the name of Jesus as Lord and Savior, but in such a way that makes them the target of other worldviews from within the believing community. Even within this online community, we see how easy it is to "condemn" a brother or sister who disagrees with us on very minor points of theology or practice.
The early church was just as bad, I am afraid to say. If we were searching for a "Christian" church in the middle of the second century, we could choose from communities which taught that there are 2, 30 and even 365 different gods. There was a parish who taught that the OT is a evil book. The diversity is astounding (and one of my passions) because each of these communities counted themselves as followers of Jesus! Each of these communities could verify that Jesus himself taught these lessons and many had written apostolic truth penned by those who walked and talked with Jesus! "The more things change...." as they say!
The earliest form of Christian religion in the second century were the Adoptionists (a fascinating viewpoint, btw). For them, to call Jesus God was a blasphemous lie. They used a Hebrew text which is very similar to the Gospel of Matthew less the first two chapters. To them, Paul was the arch-heretic blasphemer.
Another group -- a very large group (early "superchurch?") were the Marcionites. Marcion was a scholar and evangelist who maintained that Paul was the true apostle. Marcionites were also at odds with the differences between the OT God and the God of Jesus. Their views on Jesus also maintained that Jesus was not a flesh-and-blood human -- he only seemed human.
There were Gnostic Christians who were numbered largely in the urban areas. Agreeing largely with Marcion, they also adopted a Jesus of two distinct beings: the human Jesus and the divine Jesus. Some forms of Gnosticism claimed 30 gods and up to 365 gods and yet still, the One True God was not the God of the OT. (Ever wondered where the title "Children of a Lesser God" came from?)
The group that finally prevailed and whose teachings changed to accomodate more and more heretics (I interrupt this post to reveal to you that the word "heretic" has its roots in the Greek word for "choice" -- as in those heretics over there choose not to believe our way! It had nothing to do with being "wrong" or "evil" until loving, adoring Christians gave it power over peoples' lives) and, of the course the Jesus -- fully human/fully divine discussions of the Johannines.
It's hard to keep this short...
The long and short of it is that many Christians had access to one or two books which were regarded as apostolic and used them as their holy library. There was no authorized NT for hundreds and hundreds of years. The Gospels being handed down through generations stayed mainly in their own groups: The Gnostics prefered the Gospels of Peter (probably the most widely-read Gospel in the early church), John, Philip, and Thomas. Jewish Christians preferred Matthew.
Remember also, outside of the Torah, there was no hard-and-fast layout of the Jewish scripture.
There certainly was scripture, but we are nowhere near an authorized Bible.
The points I would like to address in response to your question are:
1. Diversity in believers is not a new thing. People who walked with those who walked with the earliest saints had varying ideas, customs, and outlooks. Why can't we? As long as we keep to the basic tenets of Jesus' teaching, are we not on solid ground? If the Bible is the most researched and scrutinized book in history, can we not use it as an authoritative, reliable source for these teachings? If the earliest believers were confused, whence comes our arrogance that we can discern who is "elect", "chosen", or "condemned to Johnny Cash's 'Ring of Fire'" played for an eon??
2. The canon of the Bible was not authorized until around the 16th century (give or take -- I'm flying without notes). Is that when we should take it to heart as a believing community? What about the Christians (and there were thousands) who relied on non-canonical books where is their salvation?
Books like the Didache, and the Shepherd of Hermas among others were used to establish the earliest sacred traditions in the early communities. Are they then "God-breathed"? Parts of them? BY THE WAY, when the book of Tim makes the bold statement that all scriptures are "God-breathed," what Scripture is he talking about? The Book of Revelation had not even been written yet, while other major book were being referred-to as Scripture that never made it into the canon.
3. Finally, and I apologize (pun intended!) for the length here, the biggest danger I see is that of history repeating itself over and over and over. Our modern terminology aside, a Pharisee is Jesus' day was the person who knew the words and traditions better than anyone. The studied the Scripture and tried to maintain the purity of it. Trouble is, they got so lost in the words that they forgot their meaning. Along comes Jesus and he preaches a new interpretation of the Jewish Law and He is killed for it!
Of course, I am sure that there are good and bad Pharisees, but generally, their sacred duty was to preserve the witness of the words (logos for those of you taking notes), rather than the presence of God beyond all understanding of the words (mythos, again for the note-takers)! Jesus was the marriage of the logos and the mythos. Why not us?
Peace
gmik:
Fascinating Pax. I love that stuff. (history) Thanks.
YellowStone:
Pax, you wrote the following and I quote:
Diversity in believers is not a new thing. People who walked with those who walked with the earliest saints had varying ideas, customs, and outlooks. Why can 't we? As long as we keep to the basic tenets of Jesus ' teaching, are we not on solid ground? If the Bible is the most researched and scrutinized book in history, can we not use it as an authoritative, reliable source for these teachings? If the earliest believers were confused, whence comes our arrogance that we can discern who is "elect ", "chosen ", or "condemned to Johnny Cash 's 'Ring of Fire ' " played for an eon?I
I read your post with great interest; however, I must comment your statement above.
Yes there are many bibles, just as there are beliefs. BUT, there is only one Spirit of Truth, hence there can be only one Truth.
One must never forget this. Man's truth should not be the basis of understanding. Prob 3:5,6
So how does one know lif one has the truth. All I can say is that, when God makes Himself known, one knows and the Truth is seen for what it is.
Love on Christ,
Darren
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