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Author Topic: the "gift" analogy  (Read 8587 times)

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oneofthefew

  • Guest
the "gift" analogy
« on: July 20, 2007, 01:21:05 AM »

Hi Everyone!

I am new to this forum and this is my first time to post. I am just so excited to fellowship with all of you.

As a former member of "christendom", we have always used the "gift" analogy when sharing salvation to "unbelievers".  We analogize that salvation is like a gift.  That though a gift is given freely it 'requires' some responsibility or effort from the one to whom the gift is given to actually "receive" the gift.

I have been praying and asking God for wisdom about how i can carefully and logically unearth the nonsense of this analogy or understand if it has the correct premises as an analogy of salvation. This is what God willed me to come up with and I really want to hear your comments or feedback if I just made some sense here =):

First I ask the simple question, "what is  a gift?"

Definition in my own words:

-a gift has an underlying purpose or intention either good or bad why it is given in the first place.
-a gift has a value, either varying degrees of triviality or significance.
-a gift is free and requires nothing from the receiver.

American Heritage Dictionary:

gift
–noun
1. something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.


God's truths:

1. It is God who constantly wills in me and so whether I refuse or accept a gift, it is caused by God Himself. (Philippians 2:13)

2. God is the perfect giver and teaches all to give. (John 3:16)

3. Every good and perfect gift comes from God. (James 1:17)

4. God gives blessings without adding trouble to it. (Provers 10:22)

Now, I focused on God's truth #4 and looked up for the Hebrew word for "blessing", see my findings below: (The word "blessing" is used in all popular translations including KJV.)

ref: http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Pro&chapter=10&verse=22

hrkb B@rakah
Pronunciation:   ber-aw-kaw'
Origin:   from 01288
Reference:   
PrtSpch:   noun feminime
In AV:   blessing 61, blessed 3, present 3, liberal 1, pools 1
Count:   69
Definition:   1) blessing
2) (source of) blessing
3) blessing, prosperity
4) blessing, praise of God
5) a gift, present
6) treaty of peace

(see #5- a gift, present)

My conclusion:

Based on God's truths specifically #1, #3 and #4, Dictionary's definition of "gift" and the Hebrew word for "blessing", it seems that yes, it is true that there might be a lot of logical reasons why one person will not perceive a gift as good and why one person will not accept/receive a gift being given (as purported by the analogy), but neither actions could determine the original purpose and intended effect of that gift.  And the giver of course must be willing and have sincerely intended good in giving it. Which means if God indeed offers the gift of salvation and I do not accept it, God surely will save me still (even in using this analogy) because neither He intends any "curse" or "consequence" of "not being saved" if I do not accept it.

What do you think?

Thank you all.

oneofthefew





« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 02:05:18 AM by oneofthefew »
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Redbird

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2007, 09:56:48 AM »

Welcome onofthefew ~ to the forum,

I think gifts are good. :)

Peace to you, Lisa

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iris

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2007, 11:47:58 AM »

Welcome to the forum!!!

Gifts are great. It feels good to receive a gift,
but feels even better to give one.


Iris
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2007, 12:01:15 PM »

Hi oneofthefew,

I follow your line of thinking on this.  Here are a couple of emails that I think go along with what you are saying.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,567.0.html ---------

Dear Riaan:
We cannot "make the decision" as you state unless God gives us that ability. Faith to believe is a gift of God (Eph. 2:08).  Repentance is a gift from God (Rom. 2:4).  None CAN come to Christ unless God draws (Gk: 'drags') them (John 6:44).  We do NOT "choose Christ," but rather Christ CHOOSES US (John 15:16).  ALL IS OF GOD, Romans 11:32, etc., etc., etc.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2885.0.html --------

Dear Sandy:  People go against God's will ALL DAY LONG. That's what most
peoples' lives consist of--going against God's will.  It is God's purpose, plan, and
intentions that absolutely no one has ever or ever will go against.  Listen:  It is
God's purpose and plan that people GO AGAINST HIS WILL. He purposes for
people to go against His will. It is God's will that we all become PERFECT as He
is perfect, but it is in His sovereign plan that we all live very imperfect lives before God begins to change us into perfecion.

    God be with you,
    Ray

« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 02:07:51 PM by Kat »
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skydreamers

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2007, 01:44:20 PM »

Hi oneofthefew,

Firstly, let me say:



Great first post!  I've heard this "gift analogy" preached in various sermons.  The idea is that if the receiver refuses to take the gift and open it, than it is not received and holds no value.  This never made sense to me.  One example I heard was, "if someone wants to give you 100 dollars and you don't take it, than you can't spend it".  And I always thought, "I'd have to be crazy not to take 100 dollars if someone wants to freely give it!!!"  Even if I didn't need it, I'd take it and give it to someone I know who does need it.  I mean WHY would a person ever refuse to take a gift from anyone, unless of course, they distrusted the giver and had reason to think it was a "bad" gift. 

Here's the thing, in God giving us "gifts", it is Him who presents us with it, opens it for us and explains to us what it is and how it works.  Until He opens it for you and reveals it to you, most don't even know it is there.  And even if he opens it for you but hasn't yet revealed to you an understanding about it, it likely just sits on a shelf looking mysterious.

This gift analogy that they use in the churches presupposes that the "gift of salvation" is some simple neatly wrapped present that can be given and taken in a moment.  Something like saying the "sinner's prayer".  What I've learned now, is that salvation is for those who "endure until the end".  The whole giving of the gift is a process that takes a lifetime.

Ray talks about this in his talk titled "How hard is getting Saved?"

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

I mean, that’s just how easy they think it is. Easier than falling out of your chair. That’s how easy it is to get saved. I’m going to show you today that “getting saved” is the hardest most difficult thing that any human being in the history of the universe will ever do. There is nothing harder than “getting saved”. Are you hearing me? It is the hardest thing any human being will ever do in all of eternity. It’s the ultimate hard task.



Nobody has or can have the complete gift of salvation right now.  Most Christians do not see it this way, but they too will "in due time" understand the true gift of salvation in God's great plan.

1 Timothy 2:5-6  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;  who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Peace,
Diana
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oneofthefew

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2007, 11:55:49 PM »

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for welcoming me and for all your inputs. I read all the links all of you suggested and got a better understanding.

Good day to you all.

oneofthefew

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Beloved

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2007, 01:22:06 AM »

The word Gift as used in scipture is  most often taken by the carnal mind as a carnal thing . Therefore they totally miss the spiritual nuances. God through the death of His Son, has "stooped down"  and given redemtion of all men to every man. Man is not able to "take" this spiritual gift because he usually remains fixated on the carnal gift. 

AS we all know our salvation is based on the Faith Of Chirst........ not on any man's faith. I like how Ray put it in this email

Faith is the assurance that God's Word is Truth and that God will do all that He has promised.  This assurance (faith) is a GIFT of God and cannot be obtained by any human endeavor (Eph. 2:8-9).  Reading and hearing the Scriptures can increase your faith, BUT ONLY BECAUSE GOD SUPERNATURALLY GIVES YOU THAT FAITH AND ASSURANCE, as you read and hear.  Through faith you will both know God's will and live God's will.  You must go to God for faith--there is no other source of true spiritual faith and assurance of God's trustworthiness.

God be with you,

Ray


God the Father is the AMEN ( Total Assurance Faithfullness and Love) ..... Jesus is the TRUTH (the AMETH in hebrew which is the feminine form of Amen and He is the Way.   Christ died for us.

That is why I like to define the "gift" faith as ... is the ability to die to self. WE are totally incapable of doing this on own. We are totally absorbed with self. (Even when a mother dies for the sake of her chld she is doing it because the child represents herself) 
 
Faith is a gift and it comes from God though the hearing the Word . The Word needs to be preached by foolish preachers so foolish people may be enabled to hear and see.

Faith becomes stronger the more you die and release your ego  and let God dominate your life.  Faith becomes stronger through obedience because these acts demonstrate in the physical what is happening in the spiritual. Those who see and hear need to daily renew our minds so we can be obedient to God's Word

Faith is not about belief, it is not the faith of man but the Faith OF Jesus Christ. From the very beginning of the universe Jesus knew God's plan and totally trusted the Father for the fulfillment of His Word.
 
Perhaps the confusion is is about spirit/soul salvation. The spirit is born again as a seed but our souls need to work out their own salvation and "lambando" recieve and guard the teachings of Jesus  and turn our souls around so they will conform to the image of Christ ...but this too is done by Jesus Christ and not by ourselves ( less we boast) because He worketh in us to do Good.
Beloved: 

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Dean Peterman

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2007, 03:48:06 PM »

In my experience the gift analogy is used by people that want to separate Jesus and salvation.  They think we don't have to follow Jesus we just have to accept the gift.
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Seraphim

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 01:04:07 PM »

Dear oneofthefew,
I'm a newbie too and this is my first reply to somebody.Welcome! :)

To be honest, I don't know much about the ''Gift analogy". But, what I am aware of is that God made us all unique. That means that we all have stuff that we are good at and there is also stuff we are not so good at.
Somewhere in all this is a "Gift from God"; whether it is a talent that we can pursue, or whether it is a spiritual gift - like Ray's talent at interpreting the bible scriptures. What is important is that we each can conform to our individuality and, through the Holy Spirit, that particular Spiritual Gift can be lit up in our being and in our lives.

Gosh, I wonder what gifts the people on this site have - it could be really beautiful. Yes?
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iris

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007, 03:48:43 PM »

Hi Seraphim,

I'd like to welcome you to the forum.

I can tell you a gift that some of the people here on the forum have...that is the gift of putting down in words their very deep thoughts. And as i read over their posts its like having a song in my head. A great big thank you to those who are able to do this!!! It has helped me to grow.


Iris
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Seraphim

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2007, 09:39:39 AM »

Dear Iris,
Thankyou for your kind words, but I accidentally thanked kat by accident (moderators area thread). oops!
Oh well, I'm thanking Kat in advance. "When the moment is ripe." Anyway got to get to sleep!
bye yas all!
Love Seraphim :-* :D :)
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: the "gift" analogy
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2007, 01:04:32 PM »

Welcome.

What a great thread.  I too remember the gift analogy from "church".  Sounds nice-God is presenting us w/ a gift(of salvation).  We choose to take it or reject it.

I never understood why it would only be a one-time offer.  Ah, you reject so you go to hell.  Thats the way I always thought it meant.  yuck.  Like the picture of Jesus knocking on the door.  I always thought that made The Creator of the Universe looking so pathetic.  Gee, no one likes Him, so they don't open the door.  Same pic I get when I think of Him trying to give someone a present and they don't want it.  Christendom makes God out like some pathetic loser.  AHHHHHHH.......

Praise God for you all and for Ray.  GOD IS A WINNER AND WE ALL WIN TOO.   Yahooooooo.

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