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Author Topic: God's work or ours?  (Read 7975 times)

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Brett

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God's work or ours?
« on: July 21, 2007, 02:19:13 AM »

Hello!

I read in post of "Sinner Prayer" and Kat found Ray's respond to email. I am wondering if God's elect then must have zero lust mentally? I mean lust has to be disappeared? Like removed sin and sin is gone for good? I don't mean sound argue question, I have struggle of my lust problem and I do not know how to removed it. I feel like we have to work to overcome our lust flesh, not God's work or little? See Ray's respond of email:

"Repentance means to turn from what you are doing (sinning) and from what you are (a sinner) and start living a godly life of overcoming the lusts of the flesh and the pride of life. Only God can grant such repentance (Rom. 2:4)." (bolds are mine)

In Romans 2:4 said about God lead you to repent. So, is that mean God lead us to repent and our work is to overcome lust?? I am not talking about lust with flesh things to carry out or look dirty pictures, but in lust mentally without act it.

I know I already have post discuss about lust few weeks ago, it was good. But feel downy when I read Ray's response. I want to email him more about it, I did once but do not want to annoyed him over the same subject.

Thanks.

Brett :-\

P.S. I hate to talk about lust. This is strongest struggle that I have for long time, even from spiritual blind to removed spiritual blind, yet have the same struggle over stupid lust.

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Jackie Lee

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2007, 02:48:49 AM »

Being a woman,

I am kinda embarrassed to say this but God took my lust problems away in December 2003.
My lusts were what people that lust call normal, woman toward man but..
I was totally disgusted with myself it was revolting I hated my sin that bad.
I get kinda queasy just thinking about it.

 I begged God to help me and he did.
So my thoughts when you get to where you hate your sin that bad God is there to help.

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hillsbororiver

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2007, 02:19:10 PM »

Hi Brett & Jackie Lee,

There is nothing new under the sun and we all experience or have experienced these things in varying degrees, sexual lust, material lust, lust for fame or recognition, lust for revenge, etc. Righteousness must be learned and the process takes time. The following is an answer Ray gave in regard to why our sinning does not stop the moment we see it for what it is;


Dear Jeff:

Unfortunately, there is not a magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits. Even the physical analogies of this spiritual washing, purging, and cleaning of our carnality, indicate that time is required. It takes time to wash clothing, it takes time to purify gold and silver in a furnace, etc.

The penalty of sin issue can be settled in your heart and mind the instant you come to realize that Jesus PAID IN FULL the penalty for your sins and all the sin of the world. However, paying the penalty for sin does not instantly PURGE AND WASH US CLEAN OF SIN. The penalty is paid, but the condition lingers.

The more you SEE your sins and shortcomings, the more you will DESIRE to rid yourself of these things. We are crucified WITH CHRIST, yet we live, but the life we live is one of OVERCOMING THE SINS FOR WHICH WE AND CHRIST DIED FOR.

We have been HAND-PICKED by God to be in His kingdom. Now we must go through the training course that He has set before us.  Jesus said that He overcame THE WORLD. We too are to overcome THE WORLD. It's a HUGE task, that requires the power of SPIRIT to accomplish. 

Don't become discouraged in well-doing. You will triumph in Christ if you have His spirit working in you. God will even give you the DESIRE to want to do right and be right.

This life is a life of SPIRITUAL WARFARE. There will be many battles before the final victory. So we must endure and we must overcome. For those whom God has chosen, this will be accomplished!

God be with you,

Ray

Just the fact that you are concerned and thinking about this should indicate that He is spiritually drawing you to Him, through His purifying and consuming fire!

His Peace to you,

Joe


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Brett

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2007, 04:23:34 AM »

Hey thanks Joe! :D

Now I see that it is not our work to overcoming but it's God's work in us to overcoming. Not like we lazy, but if God's work in us then I think we don't have time to be lazy and it made us feel very uncomfortable to lust or anything. Even we desire to get rid of it but we still doing it. When we doing it, the pain increase, yes it is pain when we are not completed clean all our sins because of bad habit in flesh. Fire purge is take a lot of time and it's painful!

I have question, do 'elect' people are completely overcome all of their sins before they died so they can enter into God's kingdom or reign with Jesus? See in 1 John 3:6, "No one who abides in Him (Jesus) keeps on sinning" and in Phil. 1:6, "that He (Jesus) who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."; if no 'zero' sins before died will not enter into kingdom of God, am I right?


Brett :D

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seminole

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 02:35:24 PM »

God's grace is so much bigger than any of our sins. We all sin in some way or another but that grace and forgiveness covers us. When we see or even feel inside that we have sinned , of course I believe that is the eye opener and we are made aware and must stop. God will give us all the strength and courage to turn from whatever sin. It won't always be easy and we won't always be 100% successful. Courage to you!
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Craig

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2007, 03:03:36 PM »

Nole, this is not correct.

Quote
God will give us all the strength and courage to turn from whatever sin. It won't always be easy and we won't always be 100% successful. Courage to you!

If what you say is true and we are not 100% successful then God is a failure. 

My God is not a failure.  God will show us our sins as you said but "we" will not conquer them no matter how hard we try.  When we come to point that "we" give up and recognize how carnal we really are and cry out to God to rescue us from our sins and let him enter in and remove the sin and desire, then we will be successful 100%.

I've said this before.  Let's say I have a particular sin in my life (you can pick any sin) I'll use anger as an example.  Lets say that I have a problem of flying off the handle with others when they make me angry.  Now I am pretty strong willed,  I can will myself to stop this outward anger toward others and be successful, and they may say, Wow! Craig sure has changed.  But if I am seething inside or even have a quick angry thought before my strong will steps in and says stop, what have I accomplished?  Not very much, because though I may appear pleasing on the outside I am still rotten on the inside.  And we cannot conquer that, no matter how hard we try (I believe the harder we try the more we fail).  Only Christ in us can conquer that.

Too many times we use our own strong wills to fix a problem and think it is God doing the work, most of the time that is not the case because if it were then we would not be in the poor shape we all seem to be in.  Only when the carnal man, "beast" is defeated can God work his will in us, and that "beast" won't be defeated until God is ready to make it so.

Craig
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Robin

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 04:13:09 PM »

Great post Craig. :)
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2007, 04:23:45 PM »

Nole, this is not correct.

Quote
God will give us all the strength and courage to turn from whatever sin. It won't always be easy and we won't always be 100% successful. Courage to you!

If what you say is true and we are not 100% successful then God is a failure. 

My God is not a failure.  God will show us our sins as you said but "we" will not conquer them no matter how hard we try.  When we come to point that "we" give up and recognize how carnal we really are and cry out to God to rescue us from our sins and let him enter in and remove the sin and desire, then we will be successful 100%.

I've said this before.  Let's say I have a particular sin in my life (you can pick any sin) I'll use anger as an example.  Lets say that I have a problem of flying off the handle with others when they make me angry.  Now I am pretty strong willed,  I can will myself to stop this outward anger toward others and be successful, and they may say, Wow! Craig sure has changed.  But if I am seething inside or even have a quick angry thought before my strong will steps in and says stop, what have I accomplished?  Not very much, because though I may appear pleasing on the outside I am still rotten on the inside.  And we cannot conquer that, no matter how hard we try (I believe the harder we try the more we fail).  Only Christ in us can conquer that.



Amen Craig! I wanted to add to the rotton on the inside reminds me very much of the fact;

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

I don't think Christ wants us to be like the pharisees, and i know He will give us the strength one day to be like Him, and not dead on the in.

Paul said;

"...Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law [what law?]: for I had not known lust, except the law [which law?] had said, 'THOU SHALT NOT COVET'" (Rom. 7:7)

As ray points out, the 10th commandment of the 10 commandments.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!

Only God can bring us to the point where we DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT [insert sin].

Love,

Alex


« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 04:26:27 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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UncleBeau

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2007, 04:48:26 PM »

Nole, this is not correct.

Quote
God will give us all the strength and courage to turn from whatever sin. It won't always be easy and we won't always be 100% successful. Courage to you!

If what you say is true and we are not 100% successful then God is a failure. 

My God is not a failure.  God will show us our sins as you said but "we" will not conquer them no matter how hard we try.  When we come to point that "we" give up and recognize how carnal we really are and cry out to God to rescue us from our sins and let him enter in and remove the sin and desire, then we will be successful 100%.

I've said this before.  Let's say I have a particular sin in my life (you can pick any sin) I'll use anger as an example.  Lets say that I have a problem of flying off the handle with others when they make me angry.  Now I am pretty strong willed,  I can will myself to stop this outward anger toward others and be successful, and they may say, Wow! Craig sure has changed.  But if I am seething inside or even have a quick angry thought before my strong will steps in and says stop, what have I accomplished?  Not very much, because though I may appear pleasing on the outside I am still rotten on the inside.  And we cannot conquer that, no matter how hard we try (I believe the harder we try the more we fail).  Only Christ in us can conquer that.

Too many times we use our own strong wills to fix a problem and think it is God doing the work, most of the time that is not the case because if it were then we would not be in the poor shape we all seem to be in.  Only when the carnal man, "beast" is defeated can God work his will in us, and that "beast" won't be defeated until God is ready to make it so.

Craig

I believe God works his will in us whether or not our god is the "beast" of carnal man. Everything happens for the purpose of His will. I also think that the term "100% successful" is a little strange. How can something be only partially successful? If it wasn't 100%, would it be successful at all? Everyothing done can be proven to be successful in "something", can it not? You can succeed in not doing something just as well as doing something. The sin was caused by Him, the repentance is caused by Him, and like Craig said, He's always successful. So, If God causes All things, nothing can ever be a failure.
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seminole

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2007, 06:47:10 PM »

To clear up my poor response. Do I believe I can overcome my sin? NO! The power of God is 100% successful but I am not! Please don't read more into my response than intended. Thanks
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musicman

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2007, 11:17:50 PM »

I personally don't know if I could overcome my sinning ways.  Perhaps if I had 100% faith in God, then I could.  However, I'm not exactly near 100% in believing.  Therefore, I know that I can't overcome my sins at this time.
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Jackie Lee

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2007, 12:45:15 AM »

When it is finished though it is finished. God finished the work of lust in me and it has not crept back not even once since 2003.
Now he has other projects to do in me, I am so glad he does the work we can't do it on our own.
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Bradigans

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2007, 01:11:25 AM »


Too many times we use our own strong wills to fix a problem and think it is God doing the work, most of the time that is not the case because if it were then we would not be in the poor shape we all seem to be in.  Only when the carnal man, "beast" is defeated can God work his will in us, and that "beast" won't be defeated until God is ready to make it so.

Craig

Now that is the truth, amen!
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Bradigans

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2007, 01:25:26 AM »

I personally don't know if I could overcome my sinning ways.  Perhaps if I had 100% faith in God, then I could.  However, I'm not exactly near 100% in believing.  Therefore, I know that I can't overcome my sins at this time.

I know this is the truth because at times i don't even want to. It's just that there's is so much going on in my life, i can't find the opportunity to do things i use to. For me I can see it is definitely going to be according to Philippians 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.I am anxiously looking for the day when Christ Jesus will set me free and say, go and sin no more (John 8:11).
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M_Oliver

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2007, 08:42:46 PM »

Has Ray ever addressed where he is at in "overcoming" in an audio, article or email?

Mark
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Craig

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2007, 09:43:09 PM »

Not as far as I know, but I would suspect he would say he is still running the race.

Craig
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seminole

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2007, 10:12:18 PM »

Jackie Lee, I know what you mean. There have been times in my life where I believe and know with my whole heart that God delivered me from certain sins. I used to be controlled by drugs and alcohol. I know I can't put myself in the presence of either of those things . That was a weakness I had. Not to say I wasn't delivered because I can truly say that the desire is not there anymore even at times I have been around it. Like you, I was there, am no longer there, and look forward to the working that God is doing in me now!
Sincerely, Seminole
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Jackie Lee

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2007, 12:03:02 AM »

Hi Seminole, I for years tried to overcome this then I would slip back and felt like such a loser, this was something I didn't want at all.
I was so sorrowful it caused many problems in my life I cried and cried and begged God to stop this because I couldn't.
 I had to go through this to see what a disgusting person or yes beast I was.
Then In December of 2003 it happened I knew I would never be in this condition again.
I really praised God for his deliverance, I have other things to overcome that I hate but I have never hated anything like the one mentioned earlier in the thread.
For me wanting to overcome my weaknesses is what keeps me struggling and trying to be the best I can be.
This all God and for that I am greatful.
 I am like you looking forward to God's work in me.
This is all a part of the race.
 
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Chris R

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2007, 09:16:52 AM »

Hello folks

Although Salvation of all is not the entire theme of Bible Truths , it would seem pertinent in this thread, if only to remind those readers that God is not willing that any should perish, But that all should come unto repentance.

No matter how many mountains are removed, There seems to be a hill or two yet to overcome, The God of all creation has not left us with no hope concerning these hills, But has promised that these to, will be removed.

I therefore Rejoice in a loving God, who is the savior of all men.

Peace

Chris R
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Brett

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Re: God's work or ours?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2007, 12:21:57 PM »

Hello folks

Although Salvation of all is not the entire theme of Bible Truths , it would seem pertinent in this thread, if only to remind those readers that God is not willing that any should perish, But that all should come unto repentance.

No matter how many mountains are removed, There seems to be a hill or two yet to overcome, The God of all creation has not left us with no hope concerning these hills, But has promised that these to, will be removed.

I therefore Rejoice in a loving God, who is the savior of all men.

Peace

Chris R

Thank you, Chris.

Brett ;)

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