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[Oblivion582]

Well there you go........The Holy Spirit is express outward from others and comes to you within.

OOH yeah thats right...God can't use people. I felt God was telling me this is the truth but how dare I simply ask HIS people for a little confirmation.

[GODSown1]

Oblivion582!!,
                Keep strong!! in the name of the LORD!, keep the Faith!!, do not lose site of Whom drew U! here & Y!, GODBlesS! U!, Peace b with U
                muchLOVE!! Pera

[skydreamers]

mate!,
        dez pple r jus lookn 4 Help not 2 b critised or spoken harsh of, Wen JESUS spoke like HE did whom!! was d@ 2??, cum on get real!, yes! b like JESUS! NOT!! be JESUS! wakeup!!, who wants 2 b around pple like dis, man! I had enuff of d@ sh#$* wen I was a Gang member, Im startn 2 c not much difference, Jus know, We LOVE!! GOD wit all our Hearts, Souls, Minds & Strength, az I presume uZ! do 2??.
        muchLOVE!! Pera

Pera, I think I have to agree.  I think I can see a little of both sides of what people are trying to say when they say, "Be like Jesus".  Sometimes people need a little wake up call.  But here's my problem.  Jesus was given the full measure of the spirit, and with total validity spoke with authority.  He is the son of God!!!  None of us have  the full measure of the spirit yet, and although many may be more spiritually mature than others, I still don't think that gives them credibility to try and speak like Jesus who knew the hearts of men inside and out and knew exactly what He was doing and knew exactly what people needed to hear and exactly when they needed to hear it.  Do any of us seriously believe we have that kind of authority??? 

WOW! Every one of these comments from Matt. 23 were spoken directly to the "Religious Scholars and Theologians" in the Church of God centered at the Temple in Jerusalem. Would Jesus speak in the same manner to the Religious Scholars and Theologians in God’s Church today? Does Jesus "change"? NO. Has the Church changed in the past 2000 years? YES. It has gotten WORSE.

Are all of you who claim you can hand out criticisms like Jesus suggesting that the people on this forum who are seeking to understand and asking questions and looking for confirmation are "Religious Scholars and Theologians"  You've never even met any of the people here face to face, how do you even assume you know what they are all about, let alone know their hearts.  Ray has more valid reason to respond in his emails the way he does, because most of the time he is being attacked by people who insist they know better, but he is not seeking to fellowship with those thousands of emailers.....he gives them their admonition and he's on to the next email.  This forum is suppose to be a place of fellowship people!! 

Sorry, it's late over here in Canada.  I love this forum but I am getting a little weary of some posters' constant "attempts" to be "sarcastic" like Jesus.

Peace,
Diana 

[iris]

Hi Oblivion582,

I think it would be helpful to read all of the papers that Ray has written.
It has sure helped me. I'm still reading, going back over them several
times. Every time I read back over a paper I see something I didn't see
before.


Iris

[Craig]

I love this forum but I am getting a little weary of some posters' constant "attempts" to be "sarcastic" like Jesus.

Diana,

You make a good point.  Sarcasm is a two edge sword.  When Jesus used it, it was to upbraid the religious scholars and teachers of his time.  These were the ones who were leading the people to destruction.  Also Jesus was perfect and did not have to worry about the "plank" in his eye.

Ray uses sarcasm when answering the religious "scholars" of our time.  They may not be preachers and teachers, but they are spouting doctrine that is completely false.  When a person writes Ray with questions that are searching and trying to understand, Ray does not generally answer with sarcasm.  Much is due to discernment that Ray is given. 

When a person comes to the forum, and you suspect that it is a person who does not share our beliefs.  It is helpful to us as moderators for the membership to "try the spirits" with pointed questions.  As we have said, with enough rope this person will eventually "hang" themselves.  But, BUT I wish the membership would leave it to the moderators to show these persons the door, and not take it upon themselves to drive them away with personal attacks and sarcasm.  If we want to throw "stones" are we any better than the "religious types" of Jesus' time? 

The moderators will start deleting posts that attack another poster.  Ask questions, tun up the heat with pointed questions if you feel led, but leave it too the moderators to decide if a person belongs or not.

The moderators have probably been asleep at the switch lately, for that I apologize. 

Craig

[Prosizz]

I was about to answer Arcturus and Rodger posts when I read what Diana and Craig wrote so I will leave at that. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

God bless.

[UncleBeau]

I think we're missing the overall point here and correct me if I'm wrong...

"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man." (john 8:15)

Jesus did not judge men because of their words, EVER. Does the book of revelation say anything about judging them according to their words? NO! Why? Because their words are out of the abundance of the heart (Matt. 12:34) and in heart ye work wickedness (Psa 58:2)

 "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness." (Rom. 6:19)


"There is therefore now NO condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom. 8:1)

Does that say WALK after the spirit? Yes it does. Does that say "talk the talk"? NO! Why not?

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him NO MORE. (2 Cor. 5:16)

We knew Him after the flesh, that's why! Any MIGHT say that Jesus was sarcastic, I call it His personality in the flesh. Now, NO ONE knows Him in the Spirit. and I can prove this:

...no man knoweth the Son, but the Father (Matt. 11:27)

We are to be like Him through knowing the Father. We know Father by Him being revealed to us through the Son. (Matt. 11:27)

Is how Jesus talked EVER to be on our priority list as to building our character? My opinion is no. We see love by what He did, not what he said; and by this, WHO he said it to makes nothing different. Would you not get angry and sarcastic at people that teach lies to your children? YES! BUT, after the flesh!(as even in the flesh, Jesus was righteous) Through the spirit, we are told to love our enemy. This is my overall opinion: WE CAN NOT WALK AFTER THE SPIRIT WHEN OUR FOCUS IS HOW WE KNEW HIM AFTER THE FLESH!

your friend,

-Beau

[seminole]

Craig, thanks for writing what you did as well as many others. I believe you got to the heart of the matter. We aren't Jesus. We can't know the hearts of people like the Father does. Again I say a big Thank you!

[hillsbororiver]

Jesus did not judge men because of their words, EVER. Does the book of revelation say anything about judging them according to their words? NO! Why? Because their words are out of the abundance of the heart (Matt. 12:34) and in heart ye work wickedness (Psa 58:2)

 

Hi Beau,

Please forgive me if I misinterpreted your point, but words are very important in my understanding. We must constantly pray for discernment and understanding as well as the fruits of the Spirit of Christ as we continue our journey with the Lord.

Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life and out of the holy city and from the things which are written in this book.

There is a lot more that I could have added but I think you can clearly see where I am coming from, if I misunderstood please elaborate a bit more as to your train of thought.

Also I thought it might be appropriate to restate the purpose of Bible Truths as it reads at the top of Ray's page.

This site is a ministry of love. We charge for nothing; we have nothing to sell; we ask for nothing.  All we at bibletruths have full-time jobs to support both our families and this site. The site requires thousands of man hours and thousands of dollars annually to operate.  It is FREE to all. And our goal is to teach the Truths of God as He has given us understanding.
There is, however, a two-fold commission in teaching the Gospel of Christ:

"...that he [the elders] may be able to [1] entreat with sound teaching as well as to [2] expose those who contradict" (Titus 1:9, Concordant NT).

Unfortunately, many are offended that we would "expose those who contradict" God's Word  They accuse us of being unloving, unkind, or bad-mouthing God's anointed. Untrue. Nowhere do we attack the person or character of those who oppose God's Word. So please don't confuse our mission of "exposing" as an "attack" on the character of a person who contradicts God's Word.

May God richly bless all those who have a real love of the Truth!

L. Ray Smith

His Peace to you,

Joe

[UncleBeau]

Hi Joe,

My response was for the purpose of those that, like many have been discussing, are talking about Jesus being sarcastic for whatever purpose they're discussing it. I apologize If I was thought to say anything else. To my understanding, Jesus rebuked the Pharasies because of what was in their heart, right? Not because they were wanting to be taught and they were just not getting it? That was my purpose, nothing more. But, like I said, if I was wrong in anything I said, help me to be correct about it; but honestly I've heard others complain enough and I wanted to show my opinion on why I don't think the manner of which Jesus spoke has anything to do with walking in the Spirit.  Of course I believe everything He said was Truth, but I believe his mannerism of dialect is irrelevant. I do understand it is hard for me to word correctly though. I'll try to make my point without giving such an impression next time.

your friend,

-Beau

[seminole]

Beau, I for one agree with you. I can't judge a man's heart. That is for our heavenly Father. I do believe that sarcasm from us is not waranted but to walk in the spirit of love that Jesus was the example of for us all. Most sincerely, Seminole

[Deborah-Leigh]

I recommend a look into Rays first teaching on this site. Excerpts from http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

 "Well, YOU ARE NOT Jesus!" Oh really? And what happened to,

"…because AS He [Jesus] is, SO ARE WE in this world" (I John 4:17),

and

"Let this MIND be IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 2:5)?

LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR DEAD

"And another of His disciples said unto Him, Lord, allow me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow Me, and LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR DEAD" (Matt. 8:21-22).

Do you think maybe that disciple was offended by his Master’s words? Jesus was saying that those preparing this funeral and burial were as dead as the corpse they were about to bury! Jesus asked this disciple to "follow Me" and let dead people take care of dead matters. But consider that this was the disciple’s own father. Are we not to "Honor our father and mother?" Of course we are, but when Jesus asks us to follow Him then our allegiance to our parents, children, or loved ones take second place to that command. We must be willing to forsake all to follow Jesus! Jesus was leading this disciple to things of life, while this particular disciple desired to sooner attend to things of death. One cannot serve two masters.

Diana

Before I answer your question I want to add that your posts have been a real treasure to read and show depth insight and sensitivity. I am sad that it wearies you that there are, as you observe, some...not many no doubt...who are...as you say....TRYING to be sarcastic like Jesus....I know I appreciate sarcasm so I think you include me as being one who is wearing you out! That is not good news I can assure you!


You note : None of us have  the full measure of the spirit yet, and although many may be more spiritually mature than others, I still don't think that gives them credibility to try and speak like Jesus who knew the hearts of men inside and out and knew exactly what He was doing and knew exactly what people needed to hear and exactly when they needed to hear it.  Do any of us seriously believe we have that kind of authority??? 

No one has the kind of authority that Jesus had of course not. But WHY OH WHY is the Babylonian teaching so dependent on a lovey dovy, softy sissy Jesus who was no where near a push over, lukewarm coward!!!

Ray says (and I firmly believe and exhort others to realize this too!) .... I fully realize my papers grind on the spirits of those who oppose God’s Word. And well they should. Why shouldn’t we quote the Scriptures with authority--the Scriptures are authority.

"For He [Jesus] taught them as one having AUTHORITY and not as the scribes" (Matt. 7:29).

Jesus got His authority from His Father, and He used it. In fact, the very words He spoke were the words of His Father and not His own (John 17:, hence the Father too uses sarcasm and anger in teaching us (our Lord and His God have more personality than most have ever imagined). What a broad range of colorful metaphors, parables, and colloquialisms they used. Add to these sarcasm, exaggeration, satire, irony, and true anger, and we have powerful, powerful, persuasive language and teaching.



Paul too used scathing sarcasm. Jesus was THE MASTER OF SCATHING SARCASM...Ray Smith...Paul too followed in the like mindedness of Christ and exhorted his brethren to copy him.

There is a HUGE false teaching that hooks onto the soul with cords of sentimentality and carnal feel good emotions that are far from the intimacy with Christ and very near to the affections of man that I see in a battle for credibility. The do goodie feel goodie two shoes v/s the carrying of the cross brethren of Christ who have come out of Babylon.

Ray notes the following : God told Isaiah to:

"Cry ALOUD, SPARE NOT, lift up your voice like a TRUMPET, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins" (Isa. 58:1).

Likewise, as a servant of God I cannot expose the evil and hypocrisy in the Church and in this world with a song in my heart, a smile on my face, and a chuckle in my voice! Sorry, but that won't get the job done. I laugh considerably more than almost anyone I know. But try to palm off the evil and vile doctrines of the Church to God’s "little ones," and my countenance changes instantly!

Is not THAT the mind of Christ? 

Joe

Thank you for your appropriate and light at the end of this tunnel post. 

Peace to you

Arcturus

[seminole]

I don't think it is being said to be a "lovey dovey Jesus" but is said that we should show love to others.Is there any here who has the mind of Christ? As has been stated many times, we are growing and becoming but are not there yet. It seems to me that throwing the "doing unto others" as all the "lovey dovey Jesus " stuff into a box that many say the church does is no different than someone else saying that "sarcasm and criticism" sets you apart. It doesn't. It is just another "boxed up" way to beat somebody down.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Can you say that to Jesus?...The Master of Scathing Sarcasm and unbridled criticism? (Rhetorical question!)

[hillsbororiver]

Hello everyone,

We should be temperate in all things (1Cor 9:25) and not choke a babe who requires milk by force feeding meat. Also, those who tend to be easily offended really need to look in the mirror as well, I have seen many times questions posed or statements made and the brethren here give thoughtful, wise and compassionate council only to have the questioner not respond to the answers. Is that an honorable thing? Is it not also a rude rebuke?

I really believe this Forum affords us the possibility to grow in patience and understanding as long as our pride doesn't get in the way. If you have a problem with a brother or sister's statement or attitude why not try to seek understanding first, if that does not solve the issue contact a moderator, let us mature together in His Spirit and not waste this incredible opportunity by self righteousness or a stiff neck.

Psa 75:5  Lift not up your horn on high: speak not with a stiff neck.

Jer 17:23  But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made  their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Oblivion582]

I don't have a problem with people flaming other people. I usually get a kick out of it anyway. But when you claim to be like Jesus because you ACT all big and bad to someone who is NOT trying to go against you, or your beliefs, is pretty lame, in my opinion. But now that I think everyone has made some valid points, lets get back to the original subject.

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Psalm 116:15

I know this doesn't say "as soon as a godly person dies, he goes to heaven" but I was wondering what do yall think?
I was watching tv last night and wouldn't you know it...they were talking about when christians die they go to heaven and they used this verse with a few others.

[skydreamers]

There is a HUGE false teaching that hooks onto the soul with cords of sentimentality and carnal feel good emotions that are far from the intimacy with Christ and very near to the affections of man that I see in a battle for credibility. The do goodie feel goodie two shoes v/s the carrying of the cross brethren of Christ who have come out of Babylon.

Arcturus my dear sister, I do understand what you are saying.  I'm not at all suggesting that we need to act in some false extreme and be "lovey dovey", or as I like to say it "mushy gushy"  ; .  I do have a sense of humour though I may not always show it!  But my understanding of what Ray is saying still stands.     He directs his sarcasm to those who are prideful, blind to the truth, and what's more important, are passing off their babylonian lies to others with a "know it all attitude".  While I agree we can expose heresy, lies, and sins, not every situation warrants that we do this with sarcastic criticism (the woman at the well, and the adultress woman come to mind).  If you detect a wall of pride and an unwillingness to learn, then by all means fire away.  But everyone processes information differently, and some, I believe are sincerely and honestly struggling.

I'm also not suggesting that those who have been given some thoughtful guidance to the right studies and information, should irritatingly continue with their same questions without doing some work and giving it time and prayer.  I know some of the things I have had a frustrating time understanding, have hit me sometime later in total clarity.  I have learned God works like that with me, so that I'll never forget the revelation comes directly from him, and not from my own supposed "intelligence".

Anyways, thank you for your kind words Arcturus, and know that I too appreciate your posts and insights.  I have always had a pull to root for the underdog, since I've always felt like one myself.  But I probably should have stayed silent on this issue since I know for a fact God has not given me the kind of discernment some have in calling people out.  Besides, the moderators know how to do this best, and kudos to them.

Peace and love to you sister, and to everyone else!   

Diana

   

[Jackie Lee]

   The Bible mentions many kinds of tongues:
      a flattering tongue (Psalm 5:9)
      a proud tongue (Psalm 12:3; 73:9)
      a lying tongue (Psalm 109:2; Prov. 6:17)
      a deceitful tongue (Psalm 120:2)
      a perverted tongue (Prov. 10:31; 17:20)
      a soothing tongue (Prov. 15:4)
      a healing tongue (Prov. 12:18)
      a destructive tongue (Prov. 17:4)
      a mischievous and wicked tongue (Psalm 10:7)
      a soft tongue (Prov. 25:15)
      a backbiting tongue (Prov. 25:23)
James also talks about the tongue. He says it's a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. He calls the tongue a fire, the very world of iniquity. James says it is untameable, a restless evil full of deadly poison, used both to bless God and to curse men. But James also told us that a man who doesn't stumble in what he says is a perfect man. (James 3:2-10)
The tongue is unruly we just need to know how to use it for each circumstance.

[seminole]

Excellent point and well made!

[Brett]

1 body + 1 SPIRIT = 1 living soul

                                              (o)                       
                                              b s                      {  spirit       ((LEAVES body goes back to God))
                                        >---o p ---<            /
                                              d i                  /
 (bullet)---------- ~        +        y r   EQUALS  =
                                              0 i                  \              I
                                              0 t                   \            I      /
                                              /  \                      {  (o)body00    (( is buried, decays, returns to dust))   
                                                                                  I      \
peace and understanding                                                 I
Rodger
             

Thanks Rodger for the picture to understand, not complete understand yet, but understand better more than before. It's good. You know I was thinking about this verse (Matt. 10:28) like Jesus said men can kill body but not able to kill soul unless God can, right. One body and one spirit equal living soul. Okay, so, how can men kill only body (dead) as unconscious and at the same time the soul (men unable kill the soul) still living soul (not dead) as conscious? Know what I mean? If not understand my question, let me know and I will try more clear another sentence. I remember I send e-mail to Ray about soul in two years ago, I will look for it and paste it in the same post.

This verse is the most difficult understand for me for long time even before (spiritual blindness) and after (remove spiritual blindness). I let it go and not to worry about it until I saw your picture. That is how I'm curious this.

Brett