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Author Topic: Transcript of 'Repentance' (about born again)  (Read 4835 times)

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Brett

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Transcript of 'Repentance' (about born again)
« on: July 23, 2007, 03:06:01 AM »

Hello,

Before I read 'Repentance' in transcript of Ray's audio (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=va4qpv2j558tlrquune8d15sa5&topic=3709.0). I learned in somewhere his installments and 'email to Ray', he said something like we are not born again until resurrection. But he said in 'Repentance', "that's being born again..." Did he mean that they (apostles) were born again before resurrection? See Ray's comment:

"I think Paul was mature enough and he was going to go up and fight for what he believed to be right.  And he didn't want any authorization from Judea that these people were going to come out and try to teach heresy behind the people that he was converting.  And so there was much disputing, Peter rose up and said, “Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made a choice among us that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel and believe.  And God which knows the hearts bear them witness giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did with us, and he put no difference between them, purifying their hearts.”  See?  Peter understood these spiritual things.  He said, God PURIFIED their hearts.  That’s conversion!  That’s being born-again, begotten anew, regenerated, whatever word you want to use, that’s what THAT is.  And it was happening to the Gentiles."


So, which one are we not born again until resurrection or are born again before resurrection?

Or maybe I'm misunderstood? ::)

Thanks!
Brett :D

« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 09:03:09 PM by Brett »
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Robin

  • Guest
Re: Transcript of 'Repentance'
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2007, 03:48:48 AM »

Ray said we are "conceived" by the spirit. We are not "born" until we enter the Kingdom through resurrection and a new spiritual body.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2606.0.html


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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Transcript of 'Repentance'
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2007, 02:16:50 PM »


Hi Brett,

There is only one word in the Greek that is used for begotten and born, so some translations will use the word born, but that confuses what is meant.  We know that we are not spirit yet, in this life.  So you have to understand the meaning of the word and look at other scripture to get an understanding.  In that transcript I think Ray just brought out all the words that are commonly used to represent receiving the Holy Spirit.
The email that M.G. gave was a good one, here is another.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.phptopic=3888.msg29544#msg29544 -----------

   Dear Willie:
        I discuss this in greater detail in one of my Bible Studies posted on our Forum. There is but one word in the Greek manuscripts to represent "begotten," and "born."  Numerous Scriptures tell us that we are given in this life, only the ernest or downpayment of God's Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14). Furthermore, Jesus told Necodemus that when one IS ACTUALLY "born again" he is like the wind (John 3:3-8). Christians are not powerful and invisible as the wind is, in this life. From these two truths, we can establish that we are "begotten" of God's Spirit in this life, but we will not be "BORN of God's Spirit" until the resurrection to immortality (I Cor. 15:42-54).

        God be with you,
        Ray
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seminole

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Re: Transcript of 'Repentance'
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2007, 05:08:27 PM »

I was looking at this thread of repentance. I referenced it also with salvation. It looks to me like there is a lot of scripture about believing, coming to Jesus and such. The scripture verses I was looking at are : Matthew 11:28, Mark 16:16, John 3:15, John 6: 35, Acts 13:39 just to name a few. It looks like to me that salvation is available to all but there is a coming to, believing on and so on. is this right?
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Transcript of 'Repentance'
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2007, 06:00:09 PM »

Repentance is a process. Being made into the image of Christ is a process so yes Seminole...to your question.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Transcript of 'Repentance'
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2007, 06:43:38 PM »

Hi seminole,

What you say is true, but how does one come to Jesus?

John 6:44  No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

How does one believe on Jesus?

Phi 1:29  For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

John 6:29  Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God that you believe in Him, whom He has sent."

Indeed people can not believe, because God has blind them and hardened their hearts.

Joh 12:39  Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,
v. 40  "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them."

So it goes back to the first scripture I gave, unless God draws(drags) you to Christ, you can not believe, because you are not one of His.

Joh 10:25  Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
v. 26  but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.
v. 27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
v. 28  I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
v. 29  My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
v. 30  I and the Father are one."

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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seminole

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Re: Transcript of 'Repentance'
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2007, 06:47:06 PM »

Sorry Kat, I didn't write that too good. I realize that we can only come to salvation with the "pull, tug" of the Holy Spirit given by God himself. We are so prideful as humans it can't happen any other way. Sorry  again, for the confusion and thanks for your courteous reply.
Nole
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