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[keys2heaven]

Please pray for my family and I. We stopped attending our former church back in April of this year. It is a major denominational church. I've posted about this before on the board, so no need to rehash. Well, my wife feels that we must attend a church. She asked me where I wanted to go in the car yesterday. Honestly, I don't want to attend a church. I mean I already feel uncomfortable now listening to some of what is being taught knowing full well that the person speaking is DEAD wrong. Telling people that they will go to hell for their sins and that we MUST tithe 10% of our incomes according to Malachi 3:10. I used to believe all of this.

What can I say to my wife that might help me get the point across. She's old school and firmly believes that if you are a Christian that you must be in a church. I can tell you that I will not become a member of another church for as long as I live.

I guess one of my stupid fears is going to a church for awhile, then  having folks start asking us questions. What do you think would happen if I told them I didn't believe in tithing or that the Christian hell is a hoax? I'm sure someone would scream that there is a wolf amongst the flock trying to divide them. I sure don't need that on my conscious.

Maybe I'm already anxious about the usher who looks at us with contempt as we pass the plate along. Mind you I have no objection with giving, but I really despise the practice of giving money in a public forum. You can't change how people think and I have known a few in those positions (ushers) who DO think the way I described. Human nature.

I don't believe that you have to attend a church. I truly think that this is more about having a social life and friends than hearing God. My wife has commented many times since we stopped attending our former that not one person has called us. Honestly, I didn't expect them to. I thought it was quite obvious that as long as you towed the line and did and said all the right things, then you were accepted. However, if you made comments that were construed as being objectionable, then you got the cold shoulder. That is what happened when I tried to discuss the issue of tithing (or Christian giving) with some "friends". Never heard another word from them. Does it hurt, yes. I wish it weren't so.

Anyway, through my ramblings, I hope you can see where I am coming from. I want to honor God and live a life that I can be proud of. I don't want to upset my wife. If she is insistent on going, should I go or not?

Thanks,

Mike

[ez2u]

Hi Mike yes i wil pray for you and your wife this morning.  God Bless your family and may the Lord give strenght and understanding to your whole family.

[SixFour]

Hello Mike,

'Tis a difficult thing you have ahead of you. I have a good friend who recently went through the same thing with his wife. She was 'old school' too, and felt that they needed to go to church somewhere. He was determined, like you, to not join another church. He didn't join one, but he did visit a few times with his wife. After some time passed, she begin to see where he was coming from. This may not be the same choice for you, but I wanted to share what recently happened in his life. I trust that our Father will show you what you must do.

James

[Dean Peterman]

Dear MIke,

Your wife probably has a need for social interaction with other people.  Perhaps if you look hard enough you might be able to find a church that is acceptable although not perfect.  Your refusal to go to church might cause misunderstandings with you and your wife.  Perhaps you could continue teaching her why hell does not exist.  She may know already but continue to deepen her understanding on this.  She may have to go to church to learn this lesson totally.  When people start to get upset that she does not believe in hell she will see why going to church doesn't work for you.  She hasn't seen this yet.  It may be a lesson you have to let her learn before the two of you come to a mutual understanding on this.  She may have to go back to church so she can learn this lesson.  If she truly rejects the doctrine of hell she will not be able to tolerate sitting in church and listening to this kind of false teaching.  Sometimes giving people what they want is the best way to help them to see that what they want is not the best thing for them. 

Sincerely,

Dean

[iris]

Prayers going up for you and your wife.


Iris

[seminole]

Mike, I don't know as much as many people here do. I would say don't even worry about the tithing thing. I know of lots of places that don't teach that. Wherever you end up in this just make sure you listen to that" still small voice" in you and you will make the right choices. maybe too, it is a learning experience . you know that will be bringing you to another level.
Nole

[LittleBear]

Hi Mike,

I'm just wondering. If your wife wants to attend church, let her go. And if you don't want to go, then why would she object to your not going? Does she know you don't beleive in all the things the churches teach?
A person ought to be free to do what their heart tells them in this matter, I think. As Dean said, she misses being with people, with friends. You two need to talk a lot about this, and settle on something you both will be happy with, if at all possible.

If you do go to church and start sharing what you believe, you will probably be kicked out. That's not such a bad thing, but will probably embarrrass your wife.
Don't be too anxious about the collection plate or anybody's looks of contempt. Simply smile nicely at the usher, and pass the thing along! I guess you won't be too popular.

Love,

Ursula

[seminole]

That is how we dealt with the offering plates. just passed them on by. Most of the time we didn't have anything to put in them anyway. It has always taken all we have to get the necessities. We live simply so we can help other people.

[keys2heaven]

Ursula,

Yes, I believe she misses our friends as well. That's why I made my comment about this in the initial post. We've talked about it and I told her that I did not want to be an embarassment to her. She's the type of person though who would rather not be by herself in church. If I don't go, more than likely she won't go.

If "visiting" a church with her would help, then so be it. Another issue is that I sing and play trumpet and was involved doing both in the church we just left. I think she's afraid that I won't get to sing or that people won't get to hear me. I figure that if it is meant to be, then a door somewhere will open up and allow me to do these things.

Mike

[DuluthGA]

Hi... just a thought... I don't know what area you are in regarding how many choices there might be... but, is there a possibility that there is a nondemoninational church [some even meet in commercial buildings] that you could both attend for awhile.  These types of "churches" in my area don't really preach anything but unifying/Christ/loving messages and usually have great music departments.  [Entertainment, entertainment... for those not given to be inclined towards His Word.]  This would satisfy your wife's longing for social interaction and you both would be quite simply assembled with others praising God at the very least and not have to swallow hard doctrinal lines... and maybe you could even get involved musically... I just don't know how it is in your area.  This scenario would be quite possible in my metropolitan Atlanta area.  A compromise indeed.  Another idea that is starting to gain an upswing is New Testament-type home-based services on Sundays... start your own type of thing.  Lots of options; however, see my Post Script...

Prayerfully for you both,
Janice

P.S.  If you share the truth, you WILL get persecuted.  Who knows how He will lead this? 

[keys2heaven]

My wife ran into a friend of ours tonight from the church we left. He told her that he missed us and wished we would come back. My wife told him that she didn't think we would be back. He said "Oh, I understand" and then went to to tell her how the services the past few months have been almost entirely focused on money. We haven't been there, but I do know that the topic of money (namely 'tithing') was seemingly coming to the forefront more than I cared to hear.

This friend went on to say how the pastoral staff keeps coming to the congregation for money to finish a new building that was started over a year ago. Mind you that when we were attending each time they asked for money for the building it was going to be the final amount. This happened at least twice that I know of and sound like it happened again. He went on to say that many were leaving because of the money issue and I know why. I can remember when I was there and singing with our praise team, hearing a comment from our associate pastor as he came before the congregation to receive the tithes and offerings. You see, I had just finished conversing with a couple of friends about the material I read here and how the tithe is unscriptural for new teatament Christians. Well, one of these friends that I was talking to is the son of the associate pastor. What made me uncomfortable is that as I was walking off the stage, I could have sworn that the associate pator gave me a sly (almost evil) smile and then spoke into the microphone and said "I want to talk to you about the SCRIPTURAL basis for tithing". WHAAAATTTT??!?!?!?!?! Did I hear what I just heard? This was at a time when I was struggling whether to leave or not. While I was thinking that my friend had obviously told his father what I said, I also felt a release because what he said in that moment 'sealed the deal' for me and I made up my mind to leave at that moment. It was then that all that I read here became soooo very clear. They ARE FLEECING THE FLOCK and THEY DON'T CARE.

Apparently, it seems that they are more concerned with a physical building than hurting people. This friend that was talking to my wife tonight made the comment about this saying that the church keeps coming to the congregation for money to finish this building but when somone in the church is in need they have no or little money to help them out. Are today's pastor's more concerned about leaving a legacy in some building that they help raise money for and that their name is attached to rather than helping the poor, weak, sick, homeless?

It makes me sick.

[LittleBear]

Dear Mike,

Yes, this is the heart of Babylon. It's very hurtful and disillusioning to see this sort of thing. When you truly follow God, you don't want any part of their fleecing, contrary ways. God's word is free.

Love,

Ursula

[mari_et_pere]

I'm in the same exact boat. My conclusion after much thought and meditation on it, is that it won't hurt me any to attend a non-denominational church where all the members love God and love to worship Him. They haven't seen the whole truth, maybe never will, but they're still very good people. They love my wife to death and it's killing her that I won't attend with her. I'm pretty sure I'm going to jump in and see how it goes. I'll try to keep my mouth shut but I don't know how to!

Matt

[seminole]

best of wishes to you Matt! I struggled yesterday just to keep my mouth shut at a place I went to. I think I did okay but not great as I am "an easy read" in the face so there was people who knew something was wrong with me. Maybe, probably, you are stronger than me!
Nole

[Ward]

Mike:
Wanted to make a few comments, if that's OK.  But because I can be a little long winded... I'll go to your last question first. 

'If she is insistent on going, should I go or not?' 

Answer: When you are at the point that the the answer is definitely NO, you won't be asking ANYBODY.

Honestly, I don't want to attend a church. I mean I already feel uncomfortable now listening to some of what is being taught knowing full well that the person speaking is DEAD wrong. Telling people that they will go to hell for their sins and that we MUST tithe 10% of our incomes according to Malachi 3:10. I used to believe all of this.

Be forwarned... Sooner or later this will become too much for you to bare. 

I guess one of my stupid fears is going to a church for awhile, then  having folks start asking us questions. What do you think would happen if I told them I didn't believe in tithing or that the Christian hell is a hoax? I'm sure someone would scream that there is a wolf amongst the flock trying to divide them. I sure don't need that on my conscious.

This bit brought this to mind.  Aren't we told in the scriptures that we will experience persecution?  I didn't get the impression that had to be scourging or being crucified. 

Maybe I'm already anxious about the usher who looks at us with contempt as we pass the plate along. Mind you I have no objection with giving, but I really despise the practice of giving money in a public forum. You can't change how people think and I have known a few in those positions (ushers) who DO think the way I described. Human nature.

Maybe... Just maybe... One of the other people that attends will notice you skipping the offering plate.  And instead of thinking less of you, they may just ask you about it.

I don't believe that you have to attend a church. I truly think that this is more about having a social life and friends than hearing God. My wife has commented many times since we stopped attending our former that not one person has called us.

That happened to me, too. Never heard a word.  And I know they still attempt to contact my Mom that attended with me.  I believe my comments & questions during Wednesday Night Bible Study had marked me a heretic, so... Now that I'm not there, Bible Study I mean, I hope that somebody else picked up the baton.  It seemed like I was the only one that ever studied before hand and was able to answer the questions our pastor asked.  Maybe it was really just a social event and I wasn't able to notice.  I bet the group gets thru the passages alot faster now that its probably become just a speech from the pastor.  I'm sure that there isn't any chewing of 'meat' going on.

However, if you made comments that were construed as being objectionable, then you got the cold shoulder. That is what happened when I tried to discuss the issue of tithing (or Christian giving) with some "friends". Never heard another word from them. Does it hurt, yes. I wish it weren't so.

It hurt me too.  Actually, it still hurts and that was a few years ago.  I recently shared this with what I consider my last two friends and I think that they may be gone now, too.  Silence...

I want to honor God and live a life that I can be proud of. I don't want to upset my wife. If she is insistent on going, should I go or not?

Now this one is something that my sister and I have been speaking about recently. (She is a member here, too.  Right now her PC is having problems, so she's not visiting the board.)  I know this isn't PC, but...  My sister and I have noticed that in our respective marriages, we had/have not been taking the roles that we are given in the scriptures.  We are trying to change that.  When she told me that she recognized that she was playing the role her husband was to have, you could knocked me over with a feather. 

Well, those were my 'ramblings' on this. 
\/\/ard

[Bradigans]

The true church has nothing to do with a physical building (1st kings 8:27, 2nd Chronicles 2:6). Jesus said in Mark 14:58 - I will destroy this temple that is made with hands (physical), and within three days I will build another made without hands (spiritual).1 Corinthians 12:13 says - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body (THE CHURCH BODY). I believe the true church is an invisible body comprised of lively stones (1 Peter 2:5) connected through the Holy Ghost. As lively stones, we don't have a denomination or non denomination. We have a head. Colossians 1:18 - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

IN HIS LOVE

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Bradigans,

A very well put post, I can't add a thing to it!

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Mike

Perhaps your wife should be gently shown how to follow Christ.

Eph 5:22 Wives, be subject, be submissive and adapt yourselves to your own husbands as a service to the Lord. 23 for the husband is the head of the wife (not the Church, the Pastor the Fellowship or the Social conditioning of Churchianty)AS CHRIST IS THE HEAD of the church, Himself the Saviour of His body. 24. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in EVERYTHING TO THEIR HUSBANDS.

There is no denying the above Words of God to all wives.

Perhaps your wife needs to pay heed to this and not to the Blasphemous nonsense that you discern being taught by Babylon.

Peace to your wife Mike and wisdom and authority of the Word of God lead you and encourage you and your wife who needs to be lead prudently and conscientiously. She is blessed to have a husband like you who has a real interest in the Truths of God.

Arcturus

[DuluthGA]

Hi Arcturus...  ... I would like to ask serious advice about a sister believer (of all the truths) whose husband is not so given to the truths, yet a believer that Christ is the Son of God, and has started (for whatever reason) smoking pot and hence is not in so good a leadership position as a husband.

Granted, health professionals are in on the case... yet how is the wife to let the husband be the leader when he obviously is having mental health problems, perhaps developing an addiction, etc. 

I'm no consellor and have no idea what to say except I hope the psychiatrist and addiction specialist are successful... how do you think she should live practically daily and in concert with God's Word?  Thank you for your serious consideration! 

With special joy for you tonight!
Janice

By the way folks, I just posted Please Don't Build That Church in Off Topic Discussions that relates directly to this thread.  All Scripture verses on that theme with absolutely no preaching.  ENJOY!

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Janice

It is most painful and difficult to be married to an imperfect spouse.

We are not the creators of perfection. Our accountability is, nevertheless, on how we handle adversity.

The Scriptures tell us how to do this. Eph 4:32 And become useful and helpful and kind to one another, tenderhearted, compassionate, understanding, loving-hearted, forgiving one another as God in Christ forgave you.

I do not want to diminish or trivialise the pain of carrying the cross of Christ. It is extremely painful and it appears to us through many forms one of which is imperfect people who disappoint us, let us down, embarrass us or simply reject and hurt us, slander, frustrate, accuse or hate us. These pains are all synonymous with Crucifixion of our pride of life and carnality. I believe that Jesus is at work in all of the pain and suffering, hurts and disappointments that He causes in order to fashion us into His image.

As Ray says http://bible-truths.com/audio/notes.htm

DOES JESUS MOTIVATE YOU DO WHAT HE SAYS?

Most people spend most of their life trying to get out of whatever situation they are always finding themselves.

"Life is but a poor actor who struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. A tale as told full of sound and fury signifying nothing." "We all live lives of quit desperation" "Life?s a bitch and then you die."

FOLLOW PAUL?S EXAMPLE: "Not that I speak in respect of want; for I have learned in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content [self-complacent, contented to a fault, eager to please, cheerfully obliging]" (Phil. 4:11).

I am crucified with Christ;: nevertheless I live; get not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" (Gal. 2:20-21).

EITHER FOR CHRIST OR AGAINST HIM: "He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathers not with Me scatters abroad" (Matt. 12:30).

We have a big and important work to do, BUT I DON?T HAVE MANY HELPERS. Many "talk the talk," but they don?t "walk the walk."

I answer emails for "religious hobbyists" all day long---year after year.

Occasionally, one actually TURNS TO GOD and sees the big picture.

GOD BE WITH YOU ALL,

Ray


as for your Sister believer who is in such a difficult trial, I would advise you to encourage her to carry her cross and follow Christ while being the best wife and friend she can be to her husband.
Peace to you

Arcturus