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[hillsbororiver]

Hi Cindy,

I had to read this series multiple times before it really began to sink in, here is the opening part of the first of the "Free Will" papers;

The Lake of Fire - Part 15

Installment XV - Part A

The Myth of Free-Will Exposed

There was a time when I too was hoodwinked into believing that man has a "free will." I believed free will to be man’s ability to make choices, change his mind, learn from experiences, etc. And since it is a fact that man can indeed do these things, it seemed evident to me that man has free will. But then I learned that these are not the definition of free will at all.

Free will does not actually and literally mean that one can make choices, create, change his mind, or reformulate ideas and data, etc., but that those choices and thought processes must themselves be free thoughts and free choices. "Free will" is only true if our choices are also free. But free from what? Why, free from being forced upon us against our will, or free from being caused by anyone or anything except our OWN will. And so, yes, man can think, process data, make choices, change his choices, etc. But none of these activities are free from internal or external CAUSES.

That man has a will, there is no debate. It is the teaching that man himself determines his own will, FREELY, without anything causing his will or his choices to be what they are. The idea of free will or free moral agency is that man can by himself unaided by anything else, originate his own choices of his will.

But does man actually possess such a power? And if he does, where is the proof? Now for all who have no confidence in the Scriptures, let me say that there is absolutely no scientific proof that man has a "free will" or the ability to make "uncaused choices." If such a freedom of the will existed, it should be possible to demonstrate it. But there is no such scientific demonstration that man can formulate thoughts and actions to which absolutely no cause whatsoever can be attributed.

And for all who do have confidence in the Scriptures, let me say equally dogmatically that there is absolutely no Scriptural proof for man having a "free will" or the ability to make "uncaused choices." In every case Scripture shows that it is God Who is behind the scene of all circumstances that influence and cause a man to make the one and only choice possible under any given circumstance. This law of "cause and effect" is stated and demonstrated time and again in Scripture. Ignorance of these behind the scenes causes does not disprove the fact that they are the actual and literal cause of our choices

There are laws of science that men do not wish to carry over into his private and spiritual life. Why? Well, because he doesn’t like the ramifications of these laws. He does not want to admit that he is bound and controlled by laws. He wants to be "free"—free to be his own god, free to determine his own destiny, free to override the rule and dominance of God, free to rebel or free to obey, but freedom of the will at all cost.

I will admit that it is a real shock when we first come to understand that of ourselves we cannot make one "free" choice to do good. Something must cause that choice, but the carnal mind hates to be "caused" to do anything. "God gave all men free will," he shouts. God gave man no such thing. Free will is a phantom illusion that has deceived the whole world.

But how could most of the population of the entire world for the whole history of the world believe something as fundamental as "free will," if such a thing does not even exist? Well, that’s a fair question, and before I get into dozens and dozens of specific proofs that free will does not exist, let me just show you two very broad and Scriptural statements that would certainly be indicators that maybe what is popularly believed and taught is generally not true:

Enter ye in at the strait [narrow] gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait [narrow] is the gate, and narrow [cramped or difficult] is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it [Gk: ‘are finding it’]" (Matt. 7:13-14).
 
"Where is the wise? Where is the Scribe? Where is the disputer [debater] of this world? Has not God made foolish [Gk: ‘stupid’] the wisdom of this world?" (I Cor. 1:20).
Notice that it is not the "foolishness" of this world that God says is stupid, but rather it is the "wisdom" of this world that is stupidity to God! And one of the most profound philosophical and theological pieces of wisdom that is universally agreed upon in this world is the belief that man possesses free will or free moral agency. Virtually everyone in all ages have believed this teaching of free will, and yet not one of them has ever seen it proved either Scientifically or Scripturally.

You can read the rest of it here;  http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe 

[Kat]

I have just finished the Bible study on ‘FREE WILL’ IS AN OXYMORON.  It is really good and will give you a bit more to help your understanding on this.
Here is an excerpt from it.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5154.0.html -----

Now what we have to understand is what people call free will or what they dismiss as free will or what they feel confident constitutes free will, is not free will at all. 
I mean I have people email me and they say, ‘Ray excuse me, we make our own choices, what do you mean we don’t have free will’?  I say you didn’t read my papers at all did you. 

I wave the banner for making choices, more than anybody.  I say not only do we make choices, we make millions of choices.  The average human being makes, at least, a couple of thousand specific choices every day, whether you know it are not.  Thousands every day.  I’m all for choices. 
The carnal mind that hates God, that is not subject to His law, is perfectly capable of making choices.  But that is not what free will is.
 
The more you break it down, you find out that’s not exactly what they mean.  It’s their excuse, to make you think that you have free will.  But in the final analysis, that’s not really what it is.  It’s smoke and mirrors, magic tricks.  You have to understand theology is a magician.  It’s a fake, doing magic tricks with smoke and mirrors, and I don’t understand that.  Some of those magicians make even be a little sincere.  I think the older they get, the wiser they get, the more they know, the less sincere they are.

Now is free will, making a choice?  Let’s look at the definition of choose.
Choose - To select from a number of possible alternatives (The American Heritage college Dictionary). 
That’s what choose is.  Where do you see free will in that?  Where is it free? 
You look at something, your brain says I can have this or that….how is that free?  So you just select what you prefer, don’t forget that.  We’ll learn what that word ‘free’ means, it’s not free at all.  So what is choice?  You select what you prefer!

------------------------------------------------------
There is much more, it's a must read.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

To add:

While we have billions of choices we can only make ONE CHOICE above all others. Can anyone have thier cake and eat it too? It is THAT one choice the God KNOWS we will make because God knows what our spiritually weak condition is. Most of us are in denial as to our weakness and for many the condition of our being naked before God is beyond comprehension.

Those who do not want to know how weak and naked they are, refuse to accept that we do NOT have FREE WILL. They do not want to think or know or experience their nakedness before the all mighty God. They prefer to think they are God and God is who they create Him to be in their own minds and imaginations. So they dress up in their self appointed piety and resist the truth.

What Ray teaches us about Free Will being a Myth, is a very profound, deep and rich subject that reveals the Sovereignty of our God.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[pylady]

Joe,

 Thank you so much for directing me toward that particular one of Ray's writings.  I have read almost all of Ray's articles, some more than once, and I agree with you that these studies most be read over and over to sink in.  The idea that we have no free will just goes against everything we have previously been taught.  The beast WANTS, DEMANDS free will!!  May our Lord slay him with the power of His spirit!  And may He help me to get this firmly planted in my mind and heart!   

Kat,

I will definitely read "Free will is an oxymoron".  Thank you so very much for transcribing these articles.  Although I love listening to Ray in the audios because his personality  shines in them, it is such a blessing to be able to read his teachings, and really study them.  You are such a blessing to us for all the transcribing you've done.   So a great big THANK YOU. 

Arcturus,

Yes, that is where I sometimes get tripped up, but hopefully and prayerfully I am understanding more clearly.

So here goes - and please correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will ).
We make choices.  All our choices have a cause (no uncaused choices).  Therefore we have no FREE will.

God, behind the scenes (from our perspective) brings about the circumstances that cause us to make the choices that we make.  Because He causes the circumstances, and because He knows our nature He knows exactly what choice we will make each and every time.

Here's what I need to get a grasp on:  from OUR perspective we are making choices all the time, and from OUR perspective these choices are made freely.  We would all think our choices and our will is free if He didn't reveal the truth to us through His spirit.

The truth is - and from GOD'S perspective - which of course is the only correct perspective - not only do we not have free will, but we really can only make one choice.  Even the idea that we make choices is only from our perspective, since He has caused the circumstances by which we can only and must make a certain choice.  Since the definition of choice would be chosing between two or more options, we cannot even really make a choice.

Even though it seems like I should feel uncomfortable with this idea, like I've been put in a box, I really find it quite liberating.  Is this how we get rid of the beast in us.  Just giving ourselves up to God.  Not even wanting the choices, but wanting His choices for us? 

To some it might sound unpleasant and controlling.  But to me it sounds like the greatest love and mercy and guidance from the best of Fathers!

As I said if anything I've said is incorrect please correct me with Scriptures, please.

Thanks to all of you.  I've been coming to the forum for awhile now.  Don't post much, but even though you don't realize it, you've been very helpful to me, and I'm sure to others, in my spiritual growth.

  May God continue to help us all grow together toward Him.

     Cindy

[DuluthGA]

Yep Cindy, I think you've got a handle on this concept  ... [and any correct me if I'm wrong]... we just have to remember to thrown in that God knew or fore-knew all our "choices" beforehand... predestined, foreordained...

We just can't forget that GOD IS GOD, ALL-MIGHTY and stuff like that! 

... and His plan...

Thanks Cindy, your thoughtful sharing has been a blessing to me,

Peace B with U now!
Janice

[Kat]

Hi Cindy,

Transcribing is a blessing to me too, I learn so much going over it so many times 

Here is another excerpt form the paper, there is so much in it to help understand this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5154.0.html ----------

Mark Hallett, (researcher with the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Strokes) said, “If Free will does exist, it’s a perception, not a power or a driving force.  People experience free will. They have the sense they are free.” 
It’s a feeling, nothing but a feeling. 
“The more you scrutinize it, the more you realize you don’t have it.”
In other words, he said we feel like we have it, we feel like we have this thing called free will.  I mean you get up in the morning, you say I’ll have coffee and reach over an have that to eat.  This is all free, see.  Why is it free?  Because we PERCEIVE it to be free.  When you look at it carefully though, what does this scientist say, the more you look at it and scrutinize it, you realize you don’t have it.  It doesn’t exist, it’s a figment of your imagination, it’s an allusion, it’s an idol of the heart.  It’s something you wish you had and you want to have and whether you do or you don’t, you’re going to say you do.  That’s what it is, it’s an allusion at best. 
----------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Cindy

You say : Here's what I need to get a grasp on:  from OUR perspective we are making choices all the time, and from OUR perspective these choices are made freely.  We would all think our choices and our will is free if He didn't reveal the truth to us through His spirit.

The truth is - and from GOD'S perspective - which of course is the only correct perspective - not only do we not have free will, but we really can only make one choice.  Even the idea that we make choices is only from our perspective, since He has caused the circumstances by which we can only and must make a certain choice.  Since the definition of choice would be chosing between two or more options, we cannot even really make a choice.

I have no scriptures that contradict your understanding. In fact I can support and perhaps encourage a deeper insight by giving you the following which I believe will help you acquire that firmer hold on the truth that you desire! Here is the teaching from Ray, that for me, directly relates to what you are saying!

i am so happy to also revisit this teaching because it is important to be aware of the how why and wherefore that the Scriptures do not contradict and that they are not an interpretation unto themselves. This teaching reveals the truth by contrast to the deception and clearly shows what is reliably correct and true.

I recall how excited I was when I discovered this teaching. It is dazzling!

THE RELATIVE:THE ABSOLUTE:
 
" ... seek, and ye shall find ... " (Mat. 7:7) "Not one is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11)
"God changed His mind" (Ex. 32:14) "God is not a man Who changes His mind" (I Sam. 15:29)
" ... choose you this day whom ye will serve." (Josh. 24:15) "Ye have not chosen me,
but I have chosen you ... " (Jn. 15:16)
" ... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God ... " (I Jn. 3:10) "All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
"Zechariah was just before God" (Lk. 1:5) (Comparing him to the corrupt priests) "Not one is just" (Rom. 3:10)
(Comparing man with God)

 

One is the "relative" the other is the "absolute." One is from man's point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God's point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature.

Both Scriptures are true. The relative is true and the absolute is true. They do not contradict. However, one really is "relative" while the other is "absolute."

Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man's point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God's absolute declarations. They won't admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the "relative" at the expense of rejecting the "absolute."

http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm
Peace to you

Arcturus

[pylady]

Hi Janice, Kat, Arcturus,

Thank you all for your deep insights.

Janice, 

Yes, I can see that God knows our choices before we make them, since He causes us to make them.  This is very comforting, because I see even when we feel lost and confused (and who hasn't?) we are not really lost, because He is always there with us guiding us to our final destination to be His sons and daughters.   We are all in the hands of the ALL-MIGHTY!

Kat,

That was a very interesting  quote.  Even a worldly scientist who has studied this thing called free will has to admit there is no such thing.  That it's  just a persons perception that they have free will, an illusion.   Most people never really think about it.  Why would they?  They don't want to rock the boat, they might find out there IS NO BOAT under them!      It would definitely be unpleasant to them.  After all, God had to drag some of us kicking and fighting to the truth about free will!

Arcturus,

Thank you for directing me to this very enlightening article of Ray's.  (I use his first name because after reading so many of his articles and listening to his audios I feel like I know him, and think of him as a dear friend.)

This teaching of relative vs absolute is so very important to grow to understand the scriptures.  It sheds light on many (what seemed to me) gray areas of scripure.  Contradictions we think we see.  But when we ask whether a scripture is written in the relative or absolute, the gray areas disappear.  I think this should be the 13th God given truth to understand His word! (referring to Ray's article Twelve Godgiven Truths to Understand His Word).

Thank you, dear sisters, for sharing your deep spiritual insights with me.

  God bless you all,

               Cindy

[cjwood]

Claudia:

I just read this post of yours and thought I would share a few facts about what you stated.  I hope that it helps to understand the way these emails etc work. 

...thanks 'nole for thinking about me.  every day i have to block, bounce, and delete sexually explicit spam emails that come to our personal email address, and all because he would visit porn sites in the past and he got looped in to so many many many porn sites.  at least 1/3 out of every 10 emails are like that.  it is so frustrating.  and it hurts my heart because it shows me just how much he was looking at porn and i never knew it.  but, of course he says that he doesn't open the emails but just deletes them, but then i wonder, if he did that wouldn't they EVENTUALLY stop coming in.  i did tell him he needs to block them before he deletes them, but he said that wasn't NECESSARY?

oh well, i will be cancelling that particular email address soon.  my husband has his own personal (private...surprise, surprise) email address, and i have just recently set up another email account for myself.  i guess that is just one more change that will come about because of the divorce.

thanks again seminole.
love in Him,
claudia

'...all because he would visit porn sites in the past...' - Claudia, it doesn't work that way.  Visiting a site on the 'net does not provide your email address to anybody.  If it did, consider how much junk mail you would be receiving from the sites that you go to.  There are more ways to collect email addresses than you can probably imagine.  Visiting a website is not one of them, unless you have a system that is full of security holes.  Even then you don't have to access particular websites.  You just have to be online.  You'll never know it happened.  But if you are using a system that is in that state, this is the least of your worries.  In this state your system may be used to send out the spam.

If you set up a new account and never use it. The email address associated with the new account will start receiving the trash you are talking about within days if not hours.  Even if you never log into the account, much less use it to surf the 'net.

'...and it hurts my heart because it shows me just how much he was looking at porn...' -  I don't have any knowledge about your husband's 'net activities, But the spam email you are talking about can not provide you with any either.

'...then i wonder, if he did that wouldn't they EVENTUALLY stop coming in.' - NOPE! Actually, in some cases opening the spam actually sends back data to the entity sending the email validating that this is an actual and valid email address.  With that validation in place, the spammer will not ever remove the address from their list.  It actually just became more valuable to them. Deleting without opening is the very best response to those emails.

'...i did tell him he needs to block them before he deletes them, but he said that wasn't NECESSARY?' - If he was to do this...  It would not accomplish much of anything.  Here's two of many reasons that it wouldn't do anything:
 

• The email address that you 'block' probably doesn't exist.  Never did.  The sever part of the address, aka the '@yahoo.com' part, probably doesn't exist either. The information in that part of the email is simply keyed in by the entity sending it.  It is never validated.  So you are blocking an address that doesn't even exist.
  
• The spammers you are talking about, practically never use the same 'From:' address twice.  They know that many people try to use the blocking idea.  Its no big deal to them anyways.  They don't want you to reply to their emails.  They want you to access their page somewhere.  And your opening of the email accomplishes that. Ouch!
  
• Now, unless you use a free email account like Yahoo, HotMail, or GMail, many of the spam msgs. that you are receiving may not have even been sent to your email address.  I receive them all of the time. Many email servers are setup so that the msgs. that have invalid addresses are not dropped, but are given to the account that matches most closely.  I've run email servers and list servers, I know from experience.
  

Yeah... I know I said two reasons, but I got on a roll there...  Sorry.

Please understand that I am not trying to support the behavior that you are actually aware of happening.  I just wanted to give you a clue as to how this stuff works.  I hope that what you got out of this msg. is that the porn spam you are receiving is no indication of his or anybody else's internet activities.  It simply doesn't work that way.  The people that do these types of things are very clever and they share their data with each other.  Remember, they make money off of this type of thing.  That's a great motivator.  And it doesn't cost them anything to send out emails to valid, fake, made-up, wrong, etc addresses.  They fully expect that 90+% will never be seen, who cares, its free.

If you really want to stop all of this kind of thing, there is only one way to do that.  (Besides getting off of the 'net.)  Set up your email account to only accept email msgs. from specific addresses you list.  But be prepared to miss out on alot of emails this way.  And there are ways around this, too.

If you, or anybody else, wants to know more, feel free to ask.  Its important to know the truth.

\/\/ard

hi ward,
i just read your post reply. thanks bunches for the info.  some of it i was aware of, most of it i wasn't aware of.  we never used to get any sexually explicit emails until after my husband starting going into porn sites.  the sex emails come into our personal incredimail acct now but i never open them.  my husband did open them in the past, but says now he just deletes them. i used to just delete them, then after our computer got so full of viruses and i had to take it in to have it cleaned up, i started blocking any sexually implicit emails opting also to bounce them and automatically delete them.  the "geek squad" included new virus protection software and spy sweeper software.  i guess i just don't understand why we still keep getting them.  i have a personal yahoo email acct and no sexually implicit emails come to that acct.  it is just frustrating to me, especially because the subject line showing on the email notices are getting more and more leud.  i just want to delete the whole incredimail acct altogether. thank you again ward for taking the time to educate me on these things, and for caring enough to write it all out.

sincerely,
claudia

[Deborah-Leigh]

It is a pleasure Cindy

...and I could not have put it better than to evaluate that teaching on Relative V/s Absolute as meriting a place in the 12 God Given Truths to understand His Word! It is really profound and so important!

It did bring to mind another teaching.  It teaches us how to learn from error.  Here it is. http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html

THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED - ED TONGUE

Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.

But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.

But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.

Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.

But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are moral and not immortal? No.

Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.

But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.

But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.

But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.

Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.

But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.

But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: ion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.

But do they teach that this same "ion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.

But do they teach that God’s "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.

But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.

But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained four-teen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idole Bel and the Dragon"? No.

Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.

But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.

But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.

Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.

But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.

But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.

But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.

But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.

But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:? Yes.

But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.

But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.

But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.

But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.

But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in God’s Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.

I believe all of Ray's teachings are God Given Truths to understanding His Word. The Twelve God Given ones are the essentials to entering the territory of Gods disclosures and secrets that are so rich throughout the teachings given to us through Ray! There are already hundreds if not more than THOUSANDS of Truths everywhere in Ray's teachings. Every sentence, is a teaching!

BTW. I live in South Africa and have never met Ray personally. I also call him Ray....RAY OF LIGHT...He is my teacher so I consider this an honour, gift, blessing and privilege to call him so. Ray is a friend of Jesus so that makes him a friend to his precious students.

John 15:15 I do not call you servants, slaves any longer, for the servant does not know what his master is doing, working out. But I have called you My friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from My Father.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Ward]

hi ward,
i just read your post reply. thanks bunches for the info.  some of it i was aware of, most of it i wasn't aware of.  we never used to get any sexually explicit emails until after my husband starting going into porn sites.  the sex emails come into our personal incredimail acct now but i never open them.  my husband did open them in the past, but says now he just deletes them. i used to just delete them, then after our computer got so full of viruses and i had to take it in to have it cleaned up, i started blocking any sexually implicit emails opting also to bounce them and automatically delete them.  the "geek squad" included new virus protection software and spy sweeper software.  i guess i just don't understand why we still keep getting them.  i have a personal yahoo email acct and no sexually implicit emails come to that acct.  it is just frustrating to me, especially because the subject line showing on the email notices are getting more and more lewd.  i just want to delete the whole incredimail acct altogether. thank you again ward for taking the time to educate me on these things, and for caring enough to write it all out.

sincerely,
claudia

Claudia:
You are very welcome... 
I did some looking into 'incredimail'...  There are alot of users that have posted about their dissatisfaction with the amount of spam they receive using this.  Now the yahoo account you have is bound to do alot better.  Those kinds of services have too many users to not put too much effort into stopping spam.  They probably have some of the best spam filters in the world and have whole teams of people dedicated to stopping future stuff.  The spammers are aware of this and probably don't bother to try hitting yahoo.com, hotmail.com, gmail.com, etc.

Your comment about taking your PC in due to virus infection etc. caught my eye.  Just in case, I'm not making any negative comments about GeekSquad.  They are fine... But in the future here's an option that you might want to consider:

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/

They are one of many sites that I have found that will help you thru virus, worm, malware, and adware removal.  And its all FREE!  Its really just a forum, looks similar to Bible-Truths forum.  The people that help there are basically the same as the people that create virii and malware.  Just from the other direction.  They enjoy killing the hacker's work.  One of the areas is called 'Am I infected? What do I do?' If you create an account, FREE, you can post there.  And very quickly someone will be dedicated to helping you.  Its a one-on-one thing.  They will walk you thru and answer just about any question.  You will receive very specific instructions that are specific to you and the log files that they will help you create.  The faster you respond to each instruction set, the faster they respond.  I've watched many users come in that forum completely infected and come out clean as a whistle.  They will also point out very good programs (usually free also) and settings to keep you clean in the future. 

The people that help you have gone thru an online course of instruction on this. Its long and hard.  I have just started that course myself.  I have been a computer professional since the early 80's and responsible for this type of work.  But these people leave me in the dust.

Maybe this can help you or someone else here in the future. 

\/\/ard

[gmik]

Thanks Ward for the advice! I will save that link.

I used to have Incredimail, and I have since ditched it.  I don't get any spam on yahoo.