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[GODSown1]

Hi all ur Help is so needed,
                                wher shall I start, Well in the weekend jus gone I was visited by a good friend from church, whom is a Criiminal Lawyer & is the Vessel I believe GOD used 4 me in my calling. Well in da weekend he came 2 c Y I aint been goin 2 church, um! U r bein decieved! bla bla bla, But! den I let him hav it, Righteously of coz ,of da hour he was der he Only had 10minutes to speak az spoke ova him & stood firm of da Truths & wot I hav learn't well wot my Eyes hav been Opened 2, well b4 he left he said 2 me "Bro U r 1 out of da Box character & I truly admire ur dilengency" den said " I really didnt want our friendship 2 end dis way (wit tears in his eyes I mus add, showing his sincerity), I jus said mate! it will only b U whom end it, az I said  "my arms will alwayz b Open 2 him & his Wife & 2 n e 1 else frm da church & he left.  Well yestrday I recieved a fonecall frm a now retired snr Pastoress! & Pastor whom r da founders of 'NEW LIFE Church' der r many all ova the world & I hav much respect 4 them az da wife put on our wedding 4 us @ der home & it was an Amazing day plus dey r jus Awesum pple  2 know ( I once believed if der was n e annoitted pple in dis World, dey surely r d@), well wher was I? , Yvonne says 2 me I havnt seen U @ church in bout 2-3months is n e thing wrong? actually as soon az I heard her voice I new Y she had rung (my Lawyer friend ), I jus answered her "I havent stopped LOVING GOD, actually I believe I have more LOVE 4 HIM more den eva b4", she says aw! d@s real good, but I was wondering if U & Tristan(wife) would cum ova 2nite jus 2 catch up, No hesatation I said Yes we would Love 2, so 8pm lastnight we went up 2 their very beautiful home. Well John her husband was der a good man I mus add 2, well dey started wit my wife Knowing really she had nothing 2 do wit Y we were there & asked her a few Questions den BANG!! lol! "all eyes on me" lol! . So 2 show abit more respect bein in der home & 4 whom dey  were I was abit more calmer in my answering But did get out stuff I really felt da church 2day was doin (well more not doin) & der precious "New Life Church" az well. Well John started der r plenty of verses about money in the Bible, der surely is a hell, Ive seen many a man b pulled frm the church wit dez teachingz bla bla bla, BUT! then BANG!! the words he said d@ Hit me in da head, "Well if U r prepared 2 cum up nxt week & hav a study with a Open mind & bring all wot ur paperwork & wot hav U, & i will b prepared 2 do da same az Im all about knowing GODS Truths proven frm the Word of GOD only". This is wot got me sayn YES! he was prepared 2 listen especially if its concerning GODS Truths. Now!! Y Im writing dis is I would LOVE sum feed back frm uz all on, the Questions hez most likely 2 ask & hw I am 2 scripturly answer dem & how eva I should answer him,um! wot uZ think would b the best 2 hit him with, I no one is the hell well the NO hell, az I did bring dis up & he went on about den GOD wouldnt b just! bla bla bla, Tithing he didnt actually say I was wrong but jus said money is mentioned many times in the Word bla bla bla. But! I really! really! ask all my brothers & sisters 4 ur input, az Im seeing dis could end up being a great!! thing GOD Willing of corZ, um! GODS Will not ours I think needs 2 b said, um! GODS in Control & each & everyone has der own Plans GOD given um...  PlezZ!!! I ask in the mighty! glorious! amazing! precious formidable! name of CHRIST JESUS ur HELP. GODBLESS! uz AlL most abundantly!!!! Oxx
                                 much muchLOVE!! Pera

Ps.Well I hope dis all makes sense??, its next Wednesday apparently we r 2 discuss/ study dis all, Peace! 2 AlL BlesSuP!, aw! jus remembered 2 I said 2 him wot does ALL will b saved mean't, his reply it says no such thing lol! hmm....

[Redbird]

Oh Pera,

All I can say..... is GOD BE WITH YOU ALWAYS.

Peace and many blessings ~ Lisa

[Dean Peterman]

Dear Pera,

As someone who recently came to understand that hell is not taught in the Bible I would like to offer my thoughts.  Keep the study focused on one thing--the word hell.  The word hell is used only 12 times in any semi honest translation.  Further, the word hell is a mistranslation of the Greek word Ge'enna or the Latin word Gehen'na.  Do not let anyone use the King James Bible during your study because the KJV uses the word hell numerous times without any linguistic justification.  Use the New King James since they will probably accept it as an accurate translation.  The New King James uses the word hell in the following 12 places.  Matthew 5:22, 5:29, 5:30; 10:28, 18:9, 23:15, 23.33; Mark 9:43, 9:45, 9:47;  Luke 12:5;  James 3:6

Do some study on the meaning of Gehenna and discuss what Jesus meant by the word Gehenna.  My advice again is, stay focused on the word hell and the word Gehenna.  

Sincerely,

Dean

[DuluthGA]

Very interesting set of stories, Pera!  You are one "outta da box character" in a good good way!    I realize this is exciting news!!

But Pera, if you are seeking help on this matter, I'm guessing you do not feel comfortable about soon being in a "teaching" position.  And I sure can understand that!  I myself would lack the preparation and ability necessary to be able to organize a bible study on a variety of subjects.  I think Ray has an email response about this, that not everyone is called or intended to be a teacher.

Instead, I think the next best thing to do to follow through on your Spirit-led desire to share the truths we all have come to know and love is to give this man a nice card with Ray's website written in it:  BibleTruths.com.  If it's God's will, he will then visit the site and start reading and learning and accepting what Ray teaches there, as we all have done.  If not, well, that's God's will also.

Explain to him you feel that this would be the best way for God to bless him.  [And this is a way for you to graciously bowing out of it.  ]  Unless, of course, my friend, you are really burning to do this.  Only you can say.  Either way, I'm proud and happy for you Pera!!  Keep studying and hanging in here with your God-given faith in these wonderful truths! 

Thanks for all your support and friendship here at the forum. 

Love, Janice

[skydreamers]

Hi Pera!   I can feel your excitement!  Very cool brother.  Here's the thing, you are a unique person with your own unique story...take some quiet time and remember what it was that really struck a chord in you when you first came to believe differently.  Tell your own personal story of how you got to where you are now and what it has meant to you.  You don't have to have all your ducks in a row necessarily...if people are struck by your sincerity and are led by God to do so, they will come back and ask more questions.  You don't need us to tell you what to say, God will lead you if it is what He wills...and not only that....the way you tell it could be so different from the way I would share it and that's how it should be.  What are the scriptures that struck you to the core?  Share those.  What was the moment that the light turned on?  Share that.  How did it change your outlook for the better?  Definitely share that.  How did God speak to Pera?  Share d@!!  Know what I'm saying?  Be who you are and don't worry about all the head knowledge, God will put the scriptures in your mind that you have read which meant something to you.    When I have shared in the past I was amazed at what I could remember when I needed it, and those were the times I really knew God was working....

Take some time to reflect and write down your thoughts on your own journey...this will help you keep it straight in your mind when excitement takes over.  Eventually you will want to lead them to bibletruths aritcles which gives enough scriptural explanation of why you believe what you do.  If it's not who you are, and you're not comfortable with it, you don't have to machine gun them with an "arsenal" of scriptural proof of this or that.  For me, there were only a few scripture that God wouldn't leave me alone about, they kept me up at night and drove me to seek out more scripture...but it started only with less than a handful....   

I love your passion brother, it's infectious!!  God be with you.

Peace and love to ya,
Diana   

[jER]

A few Scriptures, and a Heart for God is all you need. And brother Pera, you have that  ...let the Spirit do the rest.
The character and nature of God is greater than man's opinions!

A friend in Christ - jER

[lilitalienboi16]

Hi all ur Help is so needed,
                                wher shall I start, Well in the weekend jus gone I was visited by a good friend from church, whom is a Criiminal Lawyer & is the Vessel I believe GOD used 4 me in my calling. Well in da weekend he came 2 c Y I aint been goin 2 church, um! U r bein decieved! bla bla bla, But! den I let him hav it, Righteously of coz ,of da hour he was der he Only had 10minutes to speak az spoke ova him & stood firm of da Truths & wot I hav learn't well wot my Eyes hav been Opened 2, well b4 he left he said 2 me "Bro U r 1 out of da Box character & I truly admire ur dilengency" den said " I really didnt want our friendship 2 end dis way (wit tears in his eyes I mus add, showing his sincerity), I jus said mate! it will only b U whom end it, az I said  "my arms will alwayz b Open 2 him & his Wife & 2 n e 1 else frm da church & he left.  Well yestrday I recieved a fonecall frm a now retired snr Pastoress! & Pastor whom r da founders of 'NEW LIFE Church' der r many all ova the world & I hav much respect 4 them az da wife put on our wedding 4 us @ der home & it was an Amazing day plus dey r jus Awesum pple  2 know ( I once believed if der was n e annoitted pple in dis World, dey surely r d@), well wher was I? , Yvonne says 2 me I havnt seen U @ church in bout 2-3months is n e thing wrong? actually as soon az I heard her voice I new Y she had rung (my Lawyer friend ), I jus answered her "I havent stopped LOVING GOD, actually I believe I have more LOVE 4 HIM more den eva b4", she says aw! d@s real good, but I was wondering if U & Tristan(wife) would cum ova 2nite jus 2 catch up, No hesatation I said Yes we would Love 2, so 8pm lastnight we went up 2 their very beautiful home. Well John her husband was der a good man I mus add 2, well dey started wit my wife Knowing really she had nothing 2 do wit Y we were there & asked her a few Questions den BANG!! lol! "all eyes on me" lol! . So 2 show abit more respect bein in der home & 4 whom dey  were I was abit more calmer in my answering But did get out stuff I really felt da church 2day was doin (well more not doin) & der precious "New Life Church" az well. Well John started der r plenty of verses about money in the Bible, der surely is a hell, Ive seen many a man b pulled frm the church wit dez teachingz bla bla bla, BUT! then BANG!! the words he said d@ Hit me in da head, "Well if U r prepared 2 cum up nxt week & hav a study with a Open mind & bring all wot ur paperwork & wot hav U, & i will b prepared 2 do da same az Im all about knowing GODS Truths proven frm the Word of GOD only". This is wot got me sayn YES! he was prepared 2 listen especially if its concerning GODS Truths. Now!! Y Im writing dis is I would LOVE sum feed back frm uz all on, the Questions hez most likely 2 ask & hw I am 2 scripturly answer dem & how eva I should answer him,um! wot uZ think would b the best 2 hit him with, I no one is the hell well the NO hell, az I did bring dis up & he went on about den GOD wouldnt b just! bla bla bla, Tithing he didnt actually say I was wrong but jus said money is mentioned many times in the Word bla bla bla. But! I really! really! ask all my brothers & sisters 4 ur input, az Im seeing dis could end up being a great!! thing GOD Willing of corZ, um! GODS Will not ours I think needs 2 b said, um! GODS in Control & each & everyone has der own Plans GOD given um...  PlezZ!!! I ask in the mighty! glorious! amazing! precious formidable! name of CHRIST JESUS ur HELP. GODBLESS! uz AlL most abundantly!!!! Oxx
                                 much muchLOVE!! Pera

Ps.Well I hope dis all makes sense??, its next Wednesday apparently we r 2 discuss/ study dis all, Peace! 2 AlL BlesSuP!, aw! jus remembered 2 I said 2 him wot does ALL will b saved mean't, his reply it says no such thing lol! hmm....

Pera you are one of a kind man. Truly you make me smile, everytime and right now is one of those times. The love you have for all around you amazes me, and i am humbled.

Brother there is so much when it comes to the salvation of all mankind, the evil lie of eternal damnation, and a Father who is truly in controle.

I want to give you a verse that i feel will give you peace when you go to speak with this man;

Matthew 10:19-19 "And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak."'

I have full faith that God will show you and speak through all that He wishes to say to this man. You are His vessel, a vessel of honor by His mercy and grace.

Matthew 28:20 "...lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

Perhaps if the Lord wills, i can give you some scriptures that would help in showing this man the truth. We do have this very simple yet profound and powerful verse that no man can deny;

1 Timothy 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Remember Pera, that whatever God simply WISHES will be accomplished, let alone WILLS.

Remember the former things of old: for I am GOD, and there is none else; I am GOD, and there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else]: (Isaiah 46:8-10)

Much love to you pera, and my prayers are with you always.

In Christ,

Alex

[rk12201960]

Hi Pera,
Hell is the power of the church. They use it (Satan) and plant it deep in their church goers hearts. It a control play. Now you must understand they hold this as true to them as Saul believed that he was right.

I would read all the LOF on hell and pick out what God showed you to bring you here. Use what you know and if asked a question you are not totally sure of just say that you will look for the scriptures that apply and get back to them at a later date, this keeps the door open even if they think they will correct you.
MOST of all PRAY to our God in Jesus that he leads you in this stand for HIS truth. Alex brought out some very good Scripture>
REMEMBER if you are not sure use the, "I'll get back to you on that.
You bring out a very strong question and I have to be sure my answer is correct with the word of God. "
Write down ALL questions as this will prove to then (if they return) that you are very careful in handling the word of God.

God is with you my brother.

Randy.
 

[Kat]

Hi Pera,

Well that is an interesting situation you are in.  You have a opportunity to teach your ex-pastor the truth.  
My dear friend I have a feeling this may be more intended to show you all the errors of what you are learning.  These preachers have studied the scriptures for many years, to form there heresies, and I don't think he has any intention of letting you show him the truth, because he thinks he already has it.  Please be careful about walking into a snakes den, he is prepared and waiting on you.  
I think Janice has the right idea.  Unless you have all these scripture nailed down and can quote them at the drop of a hat, it will be difficult to recall them when he is bombarding you with questions.  They always seem to ask questions you were not expecting.
I think maybe you should mail him a card (before you go there next Wed.), with Ray's site on it-Bibletruths.com, and tell him this is where you have been studying.  How ever he responses to BT will give you a big clue as to where he is coming from.  If he is sincerely looking into the truth, you will know by a positive reaction from what he read.  If he starts in on Ray, as not knowing what he's taking about, you will know that there is no need to try and convince him.
Well, this will be interesting to see how it goes.  I will certainly keep you in my prayers  

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[carol70]

Hi Pera,

You've been given some very good advice and I agree with what's already been said.  I just wanted to send some more encouragement your way.  You're such a beacon of light on this forum.  I pray your meeting has a peaceful outcome.

Love and blessings,
Carol

[okjohnson]

 Sowing seed in rocky soil are we ?
 Been there, done that.

[UncleBeau]

Hi Pera,

There's really nothing to prepare for other than keeping your word in meeting with them. The best advice I could give is to keep studying the Word as God puts it in you. Even if you give them all the scriptures that you've come to the truth with, will they see the truth as well? They could, but probably not. It's a common thing that worldly church doctrines aren't supported by the true Word of God. You're doing a great job with what you've come to know, but remember God is in control, so no matter what questions you answer right, what proof you have that scriptures show that there is no pagan hell, tithing is unscriptural under the new covenant, etc... God will show them what He will show them and He will withold from them what He will withold from them for His purposes. Although I am intrigued, so let me know how it goes 


Luke 21:14-15
 
14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

your friend,

-Beau

[seminole]

Man Pera! I will keep you on my mind for your meeting! I can't tell you what to say. I don't have enough knowledge. The only thing I can see is to look at what God has done in your life. I don't know if you will try to change their minds about their beliefs but just stand on what God has done in your life.
Seminole

[YellowStone]

Pera, my friend you are an inspiration and my prayers are with you.

Much love to you,
Darren

[gmik]

Pera you da man!!!!!

(I think I would take a quick vacation NOW!!!!)
No way I could do that.  But if God has set this up you will obey!

Don't get out the Gospel Guns to shoot each other with.  He is gonna have his scriptures and your gonna have yours.  If you want him to listen openly to you, he is gonna expect that from you.

I agree w/ Dean.  Stick to the word hell.  Keep to one topic-don't try to show him everything you have learned.  Meet again if necessary.  You will know quickly if he wants truth or just wants you to see how wrong you are.

Yu R N my prayrs!!

[LittleBear]

Hi Pera,

Lots of amazing advice. Do it your way, brother. My prayers will be with you.

Love,  Ursula

[musicman]

Boy Pera, that's a real workout reading your posts.  Anyway, you shouldn't insist that hell doesn't exist.  It definitely used to.  In the Old English it meant to cover or conceal.  I would start with this definition.  Then explain the meaning of Sheol (the unseen, often translated grave).  Next show them Psalm 16:10 and quoted in Acts 2:27 to show that Sheol has the same scriptural meaning as hades.  Then destroy their hell defense by showing that Sheol is translated grave just as many times as it is translated hell in the OT (KJ, of cource).  Then go over the term hades and say "look, I've already shown that scripture has Sheol and hades meaning the same thing.  All of this is in Ray's hell series by the way.  Oh yea, show them what Gehenna is also.  But what ever you do, do not, I mean do not!!! forget to explain the proper way of translating aion.  I mean, what's the point of being purified forever.  Type as many of Ray's examples out as possible.  This will help you avoid the impossible task of teaching the blind to identify the light of scripture.  Boy, I get giddy when I think about how much I would like to shove scripture down the throats of churchians.  This is most likely do to my immature pride but nobody asks me anything or really bothers me because I never belonged to a church.  I'm sure eventually, God will give me all I can handle though. 

[SixFour]

Brother P,

I believe you've gotten some good advice. I believe God will show you now what you need to do and say, and I'm betting it won't be until you meet with him. But just know, like everyone who's replied before me, that I'm in your corner too!


Your Brother,

James

[M_Oliver]

Print some of Rays material dealing with what you are to speak about and do what Ray does {to your ability}...

ask him to give you two Scriptures that proves it wrong.

Seems like that way you could keep it focused and make him produce evidence.  And I'm not talking about accepting a general statement like "well the bible says" this or that.  I'd insist that he shows you TWO Scriptures.  Seems like the best way to keep it simple and to the point.

Mark
 

[Oblivion582]

Good luck Pera! Be sure to pray before you see him, and after you leave. And also give him the bible-truths.com link. God bless.